Rudder Work / Replacement

[Jimbeaux]

I’m looking at purchasing a Beneteau 311. The survey has come back showing high moisture readings/delam in both rudders.

Being my first boat I’m not sure how or whether to proceed. I’ve heard this will be quite costly to remedy. Does anyone have any insight they could share here? Would this constitute a deal breaker?

 

[Hunter216]

Quick google search found these guys. Might provide a $ for reference.

New Beneteau replacement rudders | Competition Composites Inc.

New Beneteau replacement rudders.

cci.one

 

[dlochner]

Check your other thread for a description of the rudder issue.

No, this is not a deal breaker. It could be a negotiating point. Express your concerns to the broker and get an estimate for the repair from a decent yard. Once you have the estimate, you can negotiate who pays for the repair, either the seller has it fixed or there is a reduction in price, or something else.

It is not a particularly challenging repair nor expensive in terms of materials. See this series of videos from Boatworks Today.

If you are dealing with Navy Point Marine, they are generally a fair company to work with. This is also the week of the Sailboat show in Annapolis and they attend the show, so responses might be a little slow.

 

[Jimbeaux]

I’ve watched the Boatworks videos. If you take into account the editing and the countless hours cut out of the videos, this is a heck of a project. This to me translates into $$$$$.

I will express my concern to the broker and see what if anything comes of it. If there’s no wiggle room on price I’ll likely walk. Though no doubt a learning experience, it’s a bigger expense/project than I’d like to take on.

 

[dlochner]

Read your purchase offer closely and be prepared for serious discussion with the broker about the acceptable survey clause.

 

[Jimbeaux]

There’s nothing in the contract re acceptable survey. The broker did email me a number of times with the following language...

...post survey you can do one of three things: go ahead with the deal as consummated in the purchase agreement, renegotiate for items of repair, or bail out of the deal altogether.

Again, this language is not in the purchase agreement specifically but rather in a number of emails the broker sent to me.

 

[jmce1587]

If interested in obtaining a replacement cost, contact Al with Foss Foam in Florida (352-529-1104).
Website: https://www.newrudders.com/

They manufacture stock rudders for several boat companies. This info should help you in negotiating your final purchase price.

 

[dlochner]

Perhaps it is a bit different north of the border. Down here, there is usually a clause about the sale being contingent upon the boat receiving an acceptable survey. However, the definition of an acceptable survey is not really spelled out. The tricky part is the deposit. If the buyer breaks the deal without good reason or claimed the survey was not acceptable for relatively insignificant reasons, like needing the hoses replaced, the seller may be able to keep the deposit.

From my perspective the wet rudder is marginal about the survey being unacceptable. When I purchased my boat, the survey found the rudder had split open (there is a longish story here, if you want to read it, go to www.sv-secondstar.net). The seller arranged for the repair.

The broker can also work some magic here with the seller if the seller is a motivated seller. In some cases the broker can arrange for the repair to be completed at a discount to the seller, or reduce the broker commission to soften the blow. At this time of the year, the seller is also looking at another season of winter storage fees. That can be motivating.

Good luck.

 

[jmce1587]

FYI, the replacement cost for a new rudder on my ‘84 Hunter 31 last year was $2,155 incl shipping to Tx fro Fla. Another boat buck to paint and install. Hope this helps.

 

[Jimbeaux]

The boat is in the US. The purchase and sale agreement looked to be a standard YBAA association of yacht sales professionals document.

 

[Jimbeaux]

FYI, the replacement cost for a new rudder on my ‘84 Hunter 31 last year was $2,155 incl shipping to Tx fro Fla. Another boat buck to paint and install. Hope this helps.

By boat buck I assume you mean $1000? I’m looking at a dual rudder boat and both show moisture and delam. $6000 would certainly price me out of this deal.

 

[jmce1587]

Yes, boat buck=$1,000

 

[Jimbeaux]

You’ve all been a wealth of knowledge and it’s much appreciated. Does the market value listed on the survey reflect what the surveyor believes the boat is worth as she currently sits in the yard or what should would be worth if all items under deficiencies needing prompt attention are fully remedied? I realize market value is a relative term but the deficiencies would represent a fairly substantial cash outlay if I was to tackle them all.

 

[dlochner]

How close is the surveyor's estimate of market value compared to your offer? Did you or the broker tell the surveyor what your offer was?

Because the market is small for any specific sailboat model the surveyor's estimate is an educated guess. Sometimes, the survey will say whether the value is if all major items are fixed and sometimes it is as is where is.

 

[dlochner]

Here's a copy of the valuation section of my pre-purchase survey. It listed an "as is" value and a value if everything was corrected.

The high value was lower than the asking price and the as is value was lower than my offer. The seller paid for most of of the repairs.

 

[DArcy]

You mentioned the boat is in the USA but if you are looking at rudder work in Canada try Phil's Foils outside of Ottawa. I don't see your boat listed but they also do custom work.

Phil's Foils A-Z, Sailboat Rudders, Daggerboards, and More | Competition Composites Inc.

New rudders, foils, daggerboards, centreboards

cci.one

With regard to the survey valuation, they tend to be a bit over market value. Here is the quote from the survey on my recent purchase:
Current Market Value is defined as: “The price at which a willing but not anxious vendor would sell, and at which a willing but not anxious purchaser would buy”. The surveyor has used current market listings of similar vessels, published pricing sources and current sold data to arrive at the estimated current market value of this vessel. The assigned value assumes that any items, components and systems not inspected or tested during the survey are in serviceable condition.
Current Market Listings:
Yachtworld.com – $44,000.00 - $62,000.00
Sold data (previous 12 months)- $36,000.00 - $38,000.00
Total Estimated Current Market Value: $50,000.00

I ended up paying $38k after negotiating for deficiencies found in the survey, one of which was the rudder.

The survey noted: Rudder: FRP spade rudder is in average condition showing elevated moisture levels and dull soundings on the starboard side.
Recommend to drain rudder at each haul out . Monitor condition for future consideration and repair if necessary.

I plan to follow the surveyor's recommendation to drain and monitor.