anyone read this thread on trl sailor? looks like centerboard models mostly? comments? http://bbs.trailersailor.com/forums/macgregor/index.cgi/read/30484
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Rudder Reality
Mr Bill, You have been highlighting this subject for quite a while, so I have to ask you, how is your own IdaSailor rudder doing for you? Has it broken? I know you sail in wind and swells down there in FLA so give us an idea of your own experience. And have you ever heard of a rudder breaking? Regardless of manufacturer and material, I have seen many examples of broken rudders that were not built by IdaSailor. I just want to put this in perspective as it seems that you want to always highlight any rudder breakage that came from the IdaSailor shop (who makes thousands of rudders), yet you don't seem to want to report on all of the other occurrances of rudder breakage that take place. I have had two IdaSailor rudders. I have run aground, drug mine up a stream, drug it up the boat ramp (a couple of times), steered with it partially extended (probably the most stressing action possible), sailed in large swells and high winds with excessive heel angles for day long periods, and my rudder shows no cracks or problems. Notice in the pictures of the broken rudder that you link to, that the fracture line is just where you'd expect it to be if you bent the rudder 90 degrees(as in a grounding etc), not necessarily where the rudder would be stressed if it were properly seated in the rudder head and experienced large swells or high winds or whatever. My point is that we do not have any idea what abnormal stresses this rudder has been exposed to, and that you seem to have a particular bone stuck in your craw about IdaSailor rudders in general. Care to explain or tell us about your own experiences? John S Boise
Mr Bill, You have been highlighting this subject for quite a while, so I have to ask you, how is your own IdaSailor rudder doing for you? Has it broken? I know you sail in wind and swells down there in FLA so give us an idea of your own experience. And have you ever heard of a rudder breaking? Regardless of manufacturer and material, I have seen many examples of broken rudders that were not built by IdaSailor. I just want to put this in perspective as it seems that you want to always highlight any rudder breakage that came from the IdaSailor shop (who makes thousands of rudders), yet you don't seem to want to report on all of the other occurrances of rudder breakage that take place. I have had two IdaSailor rudders. I have run aground, drug mine up a stream, drug it up the boat ramp (a couple of times), steered with it partially extended (probably the most stressing action possible), sailed in large swells and high winds with excessive heel angles for day long periods, and my rudder shows no cracks or problems. Notice in the pictures of the broken rudder that you link to, that the fracture line is just where you'd expect it to be if you bent the rudder 90 degrees(as in a grounding etc), not necessarily where the rudder would be stressed if it were properly seated in the rudder head and experienced large swells or high winds or whatever. My point is that we do not have any idea what abnormal stresses this rudder has been exposed to, and that you seem to have a particular bone stuck in your craw about IdaSailor rudders in general. Care to explain or tell us about your own experiences? John S Boise
My Rudder works good!
my Idasalor rudder works good! Much better in swells, and heavy air... the boat actually has a dingy feel over 6 knts. I can surf the waves, very fun...... thats kinda the problem... I often get the feeling I'm stressing the boat and something could/will go. (and its happend before to me.. cracked a hull w/hobie 16) fwiw, I drilled my short mast crutch to work as a spare emergency tiller... (imho theres not enough surface area on the stock tiller to take the load) So The real question is if the D's bracket is better than the C'....... or are there just a lot more SC's with Idasalor rudders? why are they breaking right below the bracket? John, you know where this is going, right? I'm trying to justify not buying the new Ida rudder and bracket..... lol
my Idasalor rudder works good! Much better in swells, and heavy air... the boat actually has a dingy feel over 6 knts. I can surf the waves, very fun...... thats kinda the problem... I often get the feeling I'm stressing the boat and something could/will go. (and its happend before to me.. cracked a hull w/hobie 16) fwiw, I drilled my short mast crutch to work as a spare emergency tiller... (imho theres not enough surface area on the stock tiller to take the load) So The real question is if the D's bracket is better than the C'....... or are there just a lot more SC's with Idasalor rudders? why are they breaking right below the bracket? John, you know where this is going, right? I'm trying to justify not buying the new Ida rudder and bracket..... lol
Balance
Yes I just wanted to be sure we had a balanced report here. I will freely admit I am biased towards the IdaSailor line of products: heck, I've made a lot of their tillers. I have the Unifoil type of rudder head myself, and I think it grips and supports with much more metal than the stock head. I sail often at 7 MPH+ and I find that the boat tracks true except when sailing dead downwind with the dboard up. Then, as the wind builds, the boat can become squirrily and round up if you give it any chance. John S
Yes I just wanted to be sure we had a balanced report here. I will freely admit I am biased towards the IdaSailor line of products: heck, I've made a lot of their tillers. I have the Unifoil type of rudder head myself, and I think it grips and supports with much more metal than the stock head. I sail often at 7 MPH+ and I find that the boat tracks true except when sailing dead downwind with the dboard up. Then, as the wind builds, the boat can become squirrily and round up if you give it any chance. John S
fair and balanced
I know you support the idasalor team, and thats fine and good. (its good company) but I dont see posts on broken stock rudders either... probalby cause they round up without taking the load needed to break. so it appears theres an added risk to ANY performance rudder. but why do they break at the head? and can anything be done to help avoid this? short of buying a new unifoil? (ps: the unifoil came out, 2 months after I ordered my rudder) what I'll probably do, it put the old stock rudder and a spare bolt under the queen berth.... just in case... and MAYBE others should consider this too.
I know you support the idasalor team, and thats fine and good. (its good company) but I dont see posts on broken stock rudders either... probalby cause they round up without taking the load needed to break. so it appears theres an added risk to ANY performance rudder. but why do they break at the head? and can anything be done to help avoid this? short of buying a new unifoil? (ps: the unifoil came out, 2 months after I ordered my rudder) what I'll probably do, it put the old stock rudder and a spare bolt under the queen berth.... just in case... and MAYBE others should consider this too.
Rudder Failure Catalina 42
I was just reading in www.latitude38.com about a transpac boat who broke their rudder and had to be towed.... John S
I was just reading in www.latitude38.com about a transpac boat who broke their rudder and had to be towed.... John S
IDA Sail
I like my rudder. It's better than the original by far. I just wish I'd gotten the kick up version as there's a sand bar just before the ramp that I drag across on occassion.
I like my rudder. It's better than the original by far. I just wish I'd gotten the kick up version as there's a sand bar just before the ramp that I drag across on occassion.
Anecortes oh my !
Charlie, you live in a wonderful place to sail. I plan on coming out someday and renting a boat. Sailing in the Anecourtes is on my wish list. Steve P.
Charlie, you live in a wonderful place to sail. I plan on coming out someday and renting a boat. Sailing in the Anecourtes is on my wish list. Steve P.
rudder break prevention
Any rudder can be beefed up to prevent breaking. Then you will want to beef up the rudder bracket to match. Then you will want to beef up the transom attachments and transom to contain the more powerful forces you expect from the beefed up rudder. Perhaps, the engineers use the rudder as a fuse to prevent catastrophic damage to the transom. Same with dagger or centerboards. better to break the board than the hull!
Any rudder can be beefed up to prevent breaking. Then you will want to beef up the rudder bracket to match. Then you will want to beef up the transom attachments and transom to contain the more powerful forces you expect from the beefed up rudder. Perhaps, the engineers use the rudder as a fuse to prevent catastrophic damage to the transom. Same with dagger or centerboards. better to break the board than the hull!
I'm the guy with the broken rudder...
Man, this topic seems to be across many forums! I'm not happy with my rudder breaking - but I am more than happy with the service I'm getting from Ida Sailor. Any part of a boat can break for a variety of reasons - and when I head into "bigger waters" I'll carry more spares than just a rudder blade! Ida does claim a low failure rate, but a few of them do fail. I'll be sure to report back here their findings once they examine it. The failure did take place in the middle of a large bay with a minimum depth of 10 feet and a sandy bottom i.e. nothing to hit or ground on. My GPS track is actually pretty cool to look at - reach to the middle, then a couple 360's when it broke - followed by a drunken looking motor back home. One thing I noticed is fatigue all around the break, to a depth of about 1/4 inch. From experimenting I've done with cutting boards made from the same material, it looks like both sides were flexed in both directions i.e. it wasn't a single stress from one side. So, we'll see what the manufacturer has to say - but I'll still sail with their product... Chris
Man, this topic seems to be across many forums! I'm not happy with my rudder breaking - but I am more than happy with the service I'm getting from Ida Sailor. Any part of a boat can break for a variety of reasons - and when I head into "bigger waters" I'll carry more spares than just a rudder blade! Ida does claim a low failure rate, but a few of them do fail. I'll be sure to report back here their findings once they examine it. The failure did take place in the middle of a large bay with a minimum depth of 10 feet and a sandy bottom i.e. nothing to hit or ground on. My GPS track is actually pretty cool to look at - reach to the middle, then a couple 360's when it broke - followed by a drunken looking motor back home. One thing I noticed is fatigue all around the break, to a depth of about 1/4 inch. From experimenting I've done with cutting boards made from the same material, it looks like both sides were flexed in both directions i.e. it wasn't a single stress from one side. So, we'll see what the manufacturer has to say - but I'll still sail with their product... Chris
Fatigue sounds familiar
I suspect the material is being overstressed. If fatigue marks are present then it's either too flexible, too thin or the wrong material for this use. I'd check with the manufacturer on lateral resistance or number of flex cycles the material can handle at a given thickness. Steve P.
I suspect the material is being overstressed. If fatigue marks are present then it's either too flexible, too thin or the wrong material for this use. I'd check with the manufacturer on lateral resistance or number of flex cycles the material can handle at a given thickness. Steve P.
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