Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads, however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself almost certainly is.Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to drill them out)I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt 'heads' and score them to take a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder out? The more specific the better. Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated. Speculative accounts can be spared. Thanks again, JonTarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping Rudder
- Thread starter Jon Phillips
- Start date
I did manage to get mine off by parking the trailer over a pit and then jacking it up until the rudder post cleared the bottom of the boat.The rudder was cracked right along the back face of the part covering the post, which I think was the same problem john Neal had on the Mahina.Can't remember how I got the shoe off but it did come off. Howard ex of Shiva 1707
Hi Jon,
I pulled my rudder and hardware out for the same reason you stated. There are two ways to drop the rudder that I have used. If the boat is on a trailer or on a dirt hard… dig a hole right under the rudder so it slides out and into the hole, it was 40 inches the hole. It you cannot dig a hole, lift the trailer up about a foot and half and slide the rudder out. Once you have the rudder on your work bench, look at the trailing edges, you will see hair line cracks. Make sure you open these up and fill with epoxy. Also check the shoe mount in the keel, there will be a gap under the shoe, open it up and epoxy it as well. Now, since you have the rudder out, look carefully at the tail end of the keel. This is where the boat was glued together, two hulls sand and resined together. Look this area over carefully, there was a filler placed dead center of the two hulls. You will see two hair line cracks vertical the full length of the keel, carefully open these up and pour the epoxy to them. Jon, on the shoe, drill out the existing holes (over size) and counter sink each hole on both sides to help hold the epoxy you are going to fill the two existing holes. When you reinstall your new shoe, redrill. If your shoe is toast, see if Steve Birch has a new one. If not take it to a machine shop and have them machine you a new one. You don’t want the rudder to fall off. Ok Jon, that is my two cent.
Larry SV Lilly Too
2761
Sent from Windows Mail
From: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 6:31 PM
To: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads, however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt \'heads\' and score them to take a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated. Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
I pulled my rudder and hardware out for the same reason you stated. There are two ways to drop the rudder that I have used. If the boat is on a trailer or on a dirt hard… dig a hole right under the rudder so it slides out and into the hole, it was 40 inches the hole. It you cannot dig a hole, lift the trailer up about a foot and half and slide the rudder out. Once you have the rudder on your work bench, look at the trailing edges, you will see hair line cracks. Make sure you open these up and fill with epoxy. Also check the shoe mount in the keel, there will be a gap under the shoe, open it up and epoxy it as well. Now, since you have the rudder out, look carefully at the tail end of the keel. This is where the boat was glued together, two hulls sand and resined together. Look this area over carefully, there was a filler placed dead center of the two hulls. You will see two hair line cracks vertical the full length of the keel, carefully open these up and pour the epoxy to them. Jon, on the shoe, drill out the existing holes (over size) and counter sink each hole on both sides to help hold the epoxy you are going to fill the two existing holes. When you reinstall your new shoe, redrill. If your shoe is toast, see if Steve Birch has a new one. If not take it to a machine shop and have them machine you a new one. You don’t want the rudder to fall off. Ok Jon, that is my two cent.
Larry SV Lilly Too
2761
Sent from Windows Mail
From: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 6:31 PM
To: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads, however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt \'heads\' and score them to take a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated. Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
Bolts are threaded into the shoe. Mine are
stainless. There is an article on building a new vega with full
instructions
Steve
From: Jon Phillips
jonphillipsmsw@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:31 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the
rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe
appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads,
however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the
shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what
is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself
almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to
drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt 'heads' and score them to take
a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder
out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated.
Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
stainless. There is an article on building a new vega with full
instructions
Steve
From: Jon Phillips
jonphillipsmsw@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:31 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the
rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe
appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads,
however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the
shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what
is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself
almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to
drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt 'heads' and score them to take
a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder
out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated.
Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
Any chance the bolts heads are just all gummed up with bottom paint? That was the case for me. Maybe hit them with paint remover and see what they look like.As I recall, the bolts threaded into the opposite part of the shoe. I didn’t have any problem getting mine out and the shoe off. (All I was dodging was rebutting the shoe.)
Nico WalshNicholas H. Walsh P.A.Admiralty and Maritime Law; Probate Litigation; Commercial LawPhone: (207) 772-2191Fax: (207 774-3940P.O. Box 7206120 Exchange St.Portland ME 04112This message is from a law firm, and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you are not the intended recipient, please delete the email and call us.
Nico WalshNicholas H. Walsh P.A.Admiralty and Maritime Law; Probate Litigation; Commercial LawPhone: (207) 772-2191Fax: (207 774-3940P.O. Box 7206120 Exchange St.Portland ME 04112This message is from a law firm, and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you are not the intended recipient, please delete the email and call us.
I concur with Nico. As I recall they took a 14 mm socket to get the out. someone once said that you needed a thin wall socket but the regular one that I had worked fine. Walt To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comFrom: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.comDate: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 09:22:51 -0400Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping Rudder
Any chance the bolts heads are just all gummed up with bottom paint? That was the case for me. Maybe hit them with paint remover and see what they look like.As I recall, the bolts threaded into the opposite part of the shoe. I didn’t have any problem getting mine out and the shoe off. (All I was dodging was rebutting the shoe.)
Nico WalshNicholas H. Walsh P.A.Admiralty and Maritime Law; Probate Litigation; Commercial LawPhone: (207) 772-2191Fax: (207 774-3940P.O. Box 7206120 Exchange St.Portland ME 04112This message is from a law firm, and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you are not the intended recipient, please delete the email and call us.
Any chance the bolts heads are just all gummed up with bottom paint? That was the case for me. Maybe hit them with paint remover and see what they look like.As I recall, the bolts threaded into the opposite part of the shoe. I didn’t have any problem getting mine out and the shoe off. (All I was dodging was rebutting the shoe.)
Nico WalshNicholas H. Walsh P.A.Admiralty and Maritime Law; Probate Litigation; Commercial LawPhone: (207) 772-2191Fax: (207 774-3940P.O. Box 7206120 Exchange St.Portland ME 04112This message is from a law firm, and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you suspect you are not the intended recipient, please delete the email and call us.
New vega Rudder, NOT a new Vega!!
From: 'steve@...'
steve@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:42 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Bolts are threaded into the shoe. Mine are
stainless. There is an article on building a new vega with full
instructions
Steve
From: Jon Phillips
jonphillipsmsw@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:31 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the
rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe
appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads,
however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the
shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what
is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself
almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to
drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt 'heads' and score them to take
a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder
out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated.
Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
This
email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is
active.
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
From: 'steve@...'
steve@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:42 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Bolts are threaded into the shoe. Mine are
stainless. There is an article on building a new vega with full
instructions
Steve
From: Jon Phillips
jonphillipsmsw@... [AlbinVega]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 2:31 AM
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AlbinVega] Rudder Shoe Q / Dropping
Rudder
Hi Everyone, and thanks in advance for your replies.
I have some cracking in the rudder behind the stock and need to drop the
rudder to a.) fix it or (more likely) b.) build a new one. My rudder shoe
appears as though it is attached with two bolts that may have been hex heads,
however, the heads have been ground away over time so that they are flush to the
shoe itself and the shoe has sufficient wear on it to make it hard to see what
is going on. I assume that the bolts are bronze since the shoe itself
almost certainly is.
Q1.) Are the bolts threaded into the shoe itself?
Q2.) Does anyone happen to know the size of the bolts (in case I have to
drill them out)
I plan on first taking a grinder to the bolt 'heads' and score them to take
a flat head. Maybe I can free them in this manner.
Q3.) How much room do I need underneath the boat to drop the rudder
out? The more specific the better.
Personal accounts of dropping the rudder are much appreciated.
Speculative accounts can be spared.
Thanks again,
Jon
Tarka (the otter), Sint Maarten
This
email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is
active.
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
Hi ,I found that the rudder was resin and sand filled in my rudder. The SS shaft is not the problem, it is the attachments inside the rudder that break free from the SS shaft. You can test this once it is out of the boat. Jon, I used the epoxy in a caulking gun tube, you can force the epoxy deep into any voids using the caulking gun tube of epoxy. I used west systems 6/10. Good luck.LarrySent from Windows MailFrom: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]Sent: ?Monday?, ?June? ?29?, ?2015 ?4?:?40? ?PMTo: n4lbl alan.schulman@... [AlbinVega]
Yay Vega Group, Love having the support here. The heads of my bolts are perfectly round from wear, but knowing they are threaded into the opposite side (which is gummed up with anti-fouling at the moment) helps. I think I can take a grinder to them and flat head them out. I can see that mine are stainless as well after I took the paint off of them today.I will try the dig-a-hole method. 40" doesn't seem too bad and we are on fairly loose ground right now. Larry: Yes, I know the cracks in the aft of the hull you are talking about which I will expect to find once I remove the rudder. I actually had these same cracks continuing down underneath the keel in the section that is hollow (bilge). They stopped once the ballast started. I've actually ripped out the fiberglass under the hollow (bilge) part and saw the roughly 3mm gap the splits the two hull sections. It had been filled with, I assume, polyester resin, but the resin is pretty cracked up and worn from, I assume again, flexing and shifting over the years. I am going to refill and reglass all of this with proper epoxy. It should be bombproof then. I was surprised to see how thin the glass layers were at the bottom that were holding the two halves together, but I guess it's been adequate for 45 years including a circumnavigation.I think the shoe is in decent shape, but we'll see how the point of shoe attachment looks. I'll get to the Vega site and dig up the instructions on how to build a new rudder. They were foam filled right? I thought about taking molds from the old one and doing a foam filled replacement. I have a shop here in St Martin I can do it in. I'm wondering what kind of shape the stainless shaft will be in after being exposed to salt water, but that old Swedish stainless was the best so I'm betting it's just fine. Shoot, the ss shoe bolts have no corrosion whatsoever after nearly 5 decades of saltwater =)Thanks again everyone!
Yay Vega Group, Love having the support here. The heads of my bolts are perfectly round from wear, but knowing they are threaded into the opposite side (which is gummed up with anti-fouling at the moment) helps. I think I can take a grinder to them and flat head them out. I can see that mine are stainless as well after I took the paint off of them today.I will try the dig-a-hole method. 40" doesn't seem too bad and we are on fairly loose ground right now. Larry: Yes, I know the cracks in the aft of the hull you are talking about which I will expect to find once I remove the rudder. I actually had these same cracks continuing down underneath the keel in the section that is hollow (bilge). They stopped once the ballast started. I've actually ripped out the fiberglass under the hollow (bilge) part and saw the roughly 3mm gap the splits the two hull sections. It had been filled with, I assume, polyester resin, but the resin is pretty cracked up and worn from, I assume again, flexing and shifting over the years. I am going to refill and reglass all of this with proper epoxy. It should be bombproof then. I was surprised to see how thin the glass layers were at the bottom that were holding the two halves together, but I guess it's been adequate for 45 years including a circumnavigation.I think the shoe is in decent shape, but we'll see how the point of shoe attachment looks. I'll get to the Vega site and dig up the instructions on how to build a new rudder. They were foam filled right? I thought about taking molds from the old one and doing a foam filled replacement. I have a shop here in St Martin I can do it in. I'm wondering what kind of shape the stainless shaft will be in after being exposed to salt water, but that old Swedish stainless was the best so I'm betting it's just fine. Shoot, the ss shoe bolts have no corrosion whatsoever after nearly 5 decades of saltwater =)Thanks again everyone!