Has anyone with a older h30 with a skeg hung rudder, replaced the rudder with a balanced spade and eliminated the skeg? I'm interested in the details.
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Why?
The skeg protects the rudder from lobster pots, fishing lines, and those nasty place where the botto0m doesn't behave properly. It also reduces the chance of the rudder stalling, allowing better control in rough conditions. SWo, what are you looking for? David Lady Lillie ('77 h27 with a balanced rudder)
The skeg protects the rudder from lobster pots, fishing lines, and those nasty place where the botto0m doesn't behave properly. It also reduces the chance of the rudder stalling, allowing better control in rough conditions. SWo, what are you looking for? David Lady Lillie ('77 h27 with a balanced rudder)
more information
I remember someone doing that along time ago and wanted more information on the outcome.
I remember someone doing that along time ago and wanted more information on the outcome.
issues
Royce, do you have issues with the skeg? I was down at the boat today, and hapened to notice that the rudder appears to be hung crooked. The rudder itself is OK, but it is hanging to the left of center at the top, and the right of center on the bottom. About an inch each. Could the skeg be bent? Anyone know what it's made of? Is it fiberglass or metal? it appears to be separate from the actual hull ( there are small crack it the paint where it looks like it's attached ). I don't know if this is something I should worry about.
Royce, do you have issues with the skeg? I was down at the boat today, and hapened to notice that the rudder appears to be hung crooked. The rudder itself is OK, but it is hanging to the left of center at the top, and the right of center on the bottom. About an inch each. Could the skeg be bent? Anyone know what it's made of? Is it fiberglass or metal? it appears to be separate from the actual hull ( there are small crack it the paint where it looks like it's attached ). I don't know if this is something I should worry about.
YES
The rudder is originally held on by 6 lag screws from inside just forward of the rudder post. The skeg is made of fiberglass. I dropped mine several years ago to reglass my rudder. I made a new bronze bushing for the bottom of it while it was out. When I went to reinstall it, I bedded it in 5200, and used some new SS lag screws. I then glassed over the joint on the outside. This really stiffened up the whole skeg. Let me know how it goes. Royce Hallock
The rudder is originally held on by 6 lag screws from inside just forward of the rudder post. The skeg is made of fiberglass. I dropped mine several years ago to reglass my rudder. I made a new bronze bushing for the bottom of it while it was out. When I went to reinstall it, I bedded it in 5200, and used some new SS lag screws. I then glassed over the joint on the outside. This really stiffened up the whole skeg. Let me know how it goes. Royce Hallock
rudder post
Also John, I used the West system to restore the rudder post ID while I did all the other work. You can get the West system brochure from West Marine that gives the details for doing this. Royce
Also John, I used the West system to restore the rudder post ID while I did all the other work. You can get the West system brochure from West Marine that gives the details for doing this. Royce
I'm For Keeping the Skeg
There're not many boats available today that have a skeg and keeping it would give me a higher comfort level. Rudders are one of the weak-links on a boat. There's enough things to work on without tackling a job that wouldn't really add anything to the boat and would more likely even detract. There are a lot of folks that would like a skeg but don't have that option, myself included. If you've got one it's a good selling point.
There're not many boats available today that have a skeg and keeping it would give me a higher comfort level. Rudders are one of the weak-links on a boat. There's enough things to work on without tackling a job that wouldn't really add anything to the boat and would more likely even detract. There are a lot of folks that would like a skeg but don't have that option, myself included. If you've got one it's a good selling point.
pro-skeg
Mr Nantz is right; there are not many boats being built with rudder skegs now. The earlier Hunter boats were designed to be safe and reliable and the skeg solved several technical problems which an independent spade rudder would have exacerbated instead. Done right, a skeg is always the way to go for a cruising boat that will not see a lot of sedulous maintenance down there. We can all imagine the reasons why. But more to the point-- if you choose to eliminate the skeg and fair in the underbody again and make a new rudder and fit it to the existing rudder post, how are you going to hold it into the boat? Make sure you beef up the cockpit-seat area which will now be taking ALL of the weight and stress of the rudder, and remember that the tiller fitting or quadrant is going to be your only security. (You might want to take along a long oar to play Leif Erikson with just in case.) The skeg may be a little low-tech, but its redundancy is a problem-solver and lifesaver in more than one way. JC 2
Mr Nantz is right; there are not many boats being built with rudder skegs now. The earlier Hunter boats were designed to be safe and reliable and the skeg solved several technical problems which an independent spade rudder would have exacerbated instead. Done right, a skeg is always the way to go for a cruising boat that will not see a lot of sedulous maintenance down there. We can all imagine the reasons why. But more to the point-- if you choose to eliminate the skeg and fair in the underbody again and make a new rudder and fit it to the existing rudder post, how are you going to hold it into the boat? Make sure you beef up the cockpit-seat area which will now be taking ALL of the weight and stress of the rudder, and remember that the tiller fitting or quadrant is going to be your only security. (You might want to take along a long oar to play Leif Erikson with just in case.) The skeg may be a little low-tech, but its redundancy is a problem-solver and lifesaver in more than one way. JC 2
Crooked
Thanks Royce, sheds a lot of insight. All.... does the 1 - 2 inches of "crookedness" pose a problem for me, or should I not worry about it? All things being equal, I'd rather not pull the skeg and have to re-do. I have a lot of other projects on the list this winter. Thanks
Thanks Royce, sheds a lot of insight. All.... does the 1 - 2 inches of "crookedness" pose a problem for me, or should I not worry about it? All things being equal, I'd rather not pull the skeg and have to re-do. I have a lot of other projects on the list this winter. Thanks
Check out the attachment
of the skeg behind the engine. It might be easier to fix than you think. If the rudder is out of line, you are really going to have to fix it. But I don't think it is a particularly big job. David Lady Lillie
of the skeg behind the engine. It might be easier to fix than you think. If the rudder is out of line, you are really going to have to fix it. But I don't think it is a particularly big job. David Lady Lillie
One more question
OK. After reading some more about this on the archives ( I know, should have done that first ), I'm pulling the skeg and rudder, and re-bedding, bearing etc etc. One question I couldn't find the answer to is about how much does the skeg and rudder weigh? Boat's already on the hard, so do I need to go crazy supporting them? Or can I just have say 2 people standing there while the bolts are removed? I'm guessing if they're both primarily glass, they probably weigh about 50lbs each. Sound about right? Thanks.
OK. After reading some more about this on the archives ( I know, should have done that first ), I'm pulling the skeg and rudder, and re-bedding, bearing etc etc. One question I couldn't find the answer to is about how much does the skeg and rudder weigh? Boat's already on the hard, so do I need to go crazy supporting them? Or can I just have say 2 people standing there while the bolts are removed? I'm guessing if they're both primarily glass, they probably weigh about 50lbs each. Sound about right? Thanks.
Waterloged Rudder?
If the rudder was bone dry it might weigh 50 pounds, maybe more. If it's waterlogged my guess it more. The other thing to consider is "awkwardness" in holding onto it. Weight by itself might not seem like much but if a person has to lean or stretch then it can become a lot - you know, pulled back muscles and all that. If you have stainless steel bolts in an aluminum quadrant and no antiseze on them you're probably in for a workout. When the quadrant is reassembled (or do you have a tiller?) use Lanocote (Forespar) or Never Seze (West Marine) on the stainless fasteners.
If the rudder was bone dry it might weigh 50 pounds, maybe more. If it's waterlogged my guess it more. The other thing to consider is "awkwardness" in holding onto it. Weight by itself might not seem like much but if a person has to lean or stretch then it can become a lot - you know, pulled back muscles and all that. If you have stainless steel bolts in an aluminum quadrant and no antiseze on them you're probably in for a workout. When the quadrant is reassembled (or do you have a tiller?) use Lanocote (Forespar) or Never Seze (West Marine) on the stainless fasteners.
Rudder removal
When you are ready to drop the skeg you can support the rudder with some blocks and cribbing under the rudder while the skeg is removed. The skeg is fairly light (Picked mine up with one hand). Then, when everything is off the rudder post inside the rudder will drop down. I was heavier than the skeg, but I could carry it by myself. My rudder interior was formed from a resin putty with a glass covering. I removed all the glass off (very easy), sanded and faired the core and reglassed with vinyl esther resin. Hope this helps Royce
When you are ready to drop the skeg you can support the rudder with some blocks and cribbing under the rudder while the skeg is removed. The skeg is fairly light (Picked mine up with one hand). Then, when everything is off the rudder post inside the rudder will drop down. I was heavier than the skeg, but I could carry it by myself. My rudder interior was formed from a resin putty with a glass covering. I removed all the glass off (very easy), sanded and faired the core and reglassed with vinyl esther resin. Hope this helps Royce
Two more things for John--
1. Drill a 3/4" hole in the bottom edge of the rudder first to let the water out. 2. When it's dried out inside, turn it over and fill it with foam. I saw this stuff in the Defender catalogue for like $25/gallon; this expands to 4 gallons or more. (A quart kit might be enough.) It will ooze out like crazy from the hole you drilled. Sand it off with a cheese-grater; apply a little piece of glass mat over the hole; fair in. Then reinstall, paint, etc. The foam will take the place of potential water and not weigh enough for you to be concerned with. We used the foam in the bowels of the keels at Cherubini all the time. Usually we glassed over the top of it like a subfloor for the bilge storage areas. Out of sight, out of mind. BTW-- I would say two guys holding the rudder to remove should be plenty. If it weighs more than that, maybe someone at the lead-ballast shop was having a bad day.... JC 2
1. Drill a 3/4" hole in the bottom edge of the rudder first to let the water out. 2. When it's dried out inside, turn it over and fill it with foam. I saw this stuff in the Defender catalogue for like $25/gallon; this expands to 4 gallons or more. (A quart kit might be enough.) It will ooze out like crazy from the hole you drilled. Sand it off with a cheese-grater; apply a little piece of glass mat over the hole; fair in. Then reinstall, paint, etc. The foam will take the place of potential water and not weigh enough for you to be concerned with. We used the foam in the bowels of the keels at Cherubini all the time. Usually we glassed over the top of it like a subfloor for the bilge storage areas. Out of sight, out of mind. BTW-- I would say two guys holding the rudder to remove should be plenty. If it weighs more than that, maybe someone at the lead-ballast shop was having a bad day.... JC 2
Will do
More good info, thanks. Should I do this on teh skeg also? Is it solid or foam filled? Thanks
More good info, thanks. Should I do this on teh skeg also? Is it solid or foam filled? Thanks
skeg too
Yeah, you could foam-fill the skeg too. Make sure your mounting rods are accessible beforehand so you know what condition they are in first. At Raider they were full-length SS threaded rod going down to the shoe and welded there. I don't remember how Hunter did it. Some skegs are laid-up well and simply bolted to the hull. In many cases this is just fine-- depends on the design, the fasteners, and the layup. Consider laying up more roving inside the hull before reattaching the skeg-- just to be safe before doing this 'permanent' job. Put it back on with 5200 and fair in when it's solid (you can paint right over 5200; best thing for it really). The rudder and skeg together should feel indestructible by then. JC 2
Yeah, you could foam-fill the skeg too. Make sure your mounting rods are accessible beforehand so you know what condition they are in first. At Raider they were full-length SS threaded rod going down to the shoe and welded there. I don't remember how Hunter did it. Some skegs are laid-up well and simply bolted to the hull. In many cases this is just fine-- depends on the design, the fasteners, and the layup. Consider laying up more roving inside the hull before reattaching the skeg-- just to be safe before doing this 'permanent' job. Put it back on with 5200 and fair in when it's solid (you can paint right over 5200; best thing for it really). The rudder and skeg together should feel indestructible by then. JC 2
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