Rudder removal for an O'day 35

[rajhnsn]

Barry,
I took off the entire quadrant. I left the pin for last but I supported the rudder with a line before I removed it. When I re-installed, I reversed the two neoprene washers top for bottom. It made a difference in how the hole lined up with the pin. One washer was thinner than the other. You might want to lable them when you take them off.

 

[BarryL]

Removal Troubles

Hello,

Thanks for the info.

I was on the boat today trying to remove the rudder. I was able to remove or loosen all the bolts except for one - the through bolt that hold the rudder up. I was easily able to remove the nut, but the bolt does not want to budge.

I tried to take the strain off the bolt by looping a line under the rudder and pulling the rudder up. No difference. I sprayed liquid wrench all around, tapped with a hammer, etc. no difference. I'm afraid that if I REALLY try to turn the bolt it will snap. I wonder if the bolt is corroded in the rudder tube?

My next plan is to add some heat to the quadrant and bolt with a propane torch.

For those of you who removed that bolt, how hard was it?

Thanks,
Barry

 

[DeniseO30]

Barry, We had the same problem. it's a stainless bolt. If I remember right, should the bolt break the quadrant will still come apart because it just passes through the rudder post. We used a long 1/2" drive "breaker bar" instead of the usual 3/8" socket set. Surprisingly it did not break!

 

[DeniseO30]

I'm a little reluctant to drill a hole into a brand new rudder. I don't think we had any freezing weather soon after November 13 but we may have.

BTW, We have a mutual friend at Anchor Yacht Club-- Joe P.

I'm a member at Riverton Yacht Club.

Well it's just a matter of fact thing with mine. it gets wet inside. Still sure it's condensation from above. (must address that one day)

Joe P and his bro Shawn are great guys! small world online! take care!

 

[DannyS]

Same setup as mine too. The bolt visible in your photo with the double nut is the tensioner for the steering cable. There are two of those, one on each side of the rudder post. I only needed to release tension on one side. With that loose, you then need to undo all of the other nuts /bolts that you see in the photo along with the corresponding nut/bolts that are unseen in the photo. This will allow the quadrant to break free from the rudder post. Keep the main pin in place (the one seen in the photo going through the quadrant and the post). At this point, make sure you have a sling under the rudder to keep it from dropping out until you're ready. Once you pull the pin, you can lower it to the ground. So to summarize, you pretty much need to undo everything on the quadrant except one side of the cable tensioner.

 

[DannyS]

I just re read the responses... as I recall, I was able to get the pin out with very little problem, However, the previous owner replaced the steering cables and may have had the quadrant off which would have made it easier for me just a few years later.

 

[rajhnsn]

I don't recall that there were any problems getting the pin out. We may have used a ratchet for part of the way and then I think we used a pin and hammer to persuade it the rest.

 

[BarryL]

Rudder Is Out (almost)

Hello,

The rudder is free and will be home tomorrow.

I had to remove all the bolts and then use a series of wedges to split the quadrant and remove the two halves separately. The long through bolt was quite frozen in the quadrant.

I tried heat, liquid wrench, patience, hammers, large ratchets, nothing worked on the through bolt. By hammering wedges between the halves I was able to get the back half off. Then I was able to drive the bolt through the rudder post and I removed the other half of the quadrant.

The rudder is free to drop down. I dug a 3' deep hole to drop the rudder down into, but there is a large (2" diameter) root about 6" from the bottom that I could not chop with my shovel. So tomorrow I will fix the root with my new sawzall.

When I got the quadrant home I set about getting the through bolt out. I tried turning it - the head stripped. I tried a large hammer - the bolt bent. I tried more heat and liquid wrench - nothing. Then I tried hammering again. The bolt moved about 1/4" but then stopped. And by now the bolt was so bent that it was never going to fit through the hole. So I got out the heavy artillery - my big grinder. I ground the head off the bolt and then used a large punch and hammer to drive the bolt out of the quadrant. Success at last.

All this so I can remove the prop shaft so that I can change the stuffing box hose, which is 20+ years old and rotted.

Isn't it fun owning a boat?

Barry

 

[rajhnsn]

Congrats on your success. Flat seas and 12 to 15 knts just ahead of a beam will make you make you forget it ever happened.

 

[DannyS]

Good work. Yes, boats are fun, I actually really enjoy working on ours, even when things don't go so well. Your next challenge may be getting the transmission coupler off the shaft. That was the hardest part for me. I used Maine Sail's technique but it was VERY slow going.
I do have a little news for you that with all the work you just did in order to remove the rudder you may not want to hear... I didn't have to remove the rudder to replace the stuffing box hose. There was enough clearance between the engine and the shaft log to get the old hose off and new one on once I got the coupler off. I just had to push the shaft back toward the rudder to make room. Perhaps your setup is different than mine. The good news is that now you can now replace the cutlass bearing as well! That's my plan.
I was actually quite happy dropping the rudder this year, I've gone through and understand almost every aspect of our boat and the steering mechanism was the final frontier.

 

[BarryL]

cutless bearing

I do have a little news for you that with all the work you just did in order to remove the rudder you may not want to hear... I didn't have to remove the rudder to replace the stuffing box hose. There was enough clearance between the engine and the shaft log to get the old hose off and new one on once I got the coupler off. I just had to push the shaft back toward the rudder to make room.

Now you tell me

Actually I need to change the cutless bearing too.

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to working on the coupler.

Barry

 

[jibes138]

since you've done all this work why not just get a new shaft, have the prop balanced and checked by a prop shop, and a new flex coupler? The reason I say this is it will be much easier to just get a cutoff wheel and cut the shaft off the coupler then screwing around for hours trying to remove it. Then just throw away the coupler and shaft. My original shaft was all pitted so i needed a new one anyway, plus a few lobster pot wraps and it was a little bent. I guess this depends on how new the shaft is and condition.

 

[DannyS]

"since you've done all this work why not just get a new shaft"

With that midset, why stop there? Just buy a new boat!
Realistically, you'd still have to remove the rudder to remove the old and install a new shaft. The only real "work" you're eliminating is the coupler removal and that work is replaced by cutting the old shaft, finding and buying a new shaft and removing the prop from the old shaft, which can be as hard as removing the coupler.
Unless your shaft is like jibes', I think you're going about it the right way, besides, you'll now have intimate knowledge of how all these systems work and what to do if something goes wrong.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

Has anyone taken a rudder apart, or looked at the metal inside? The reason I ask is that there is another O'day 35 in my harbor (well, at this time it is in the same yard as my boat) and his rudder is in poor condition. It looks like a lot of rust is seeping out. I know the rudder post is stainless steel. What about the rest of the rudder? Is it stainless or regular steel? If it's stainless, it should not rust, right?

Thanks for any info.

Barry

 

[rajhnsn]

I have my old rudder next to my garage. My plan was to do an autopsy of it to see how far the rust effected the connection of the flags to the post. I was getting rust seaping from the rudder as well. When I spoke to the people at Foss Foam they told me that the post is stainless but the flag is regular steel. They made my new rudder out of all stainless for an extra charge. I cut my old one open to see how bad it actually was and let you know. My concern was that it would eventually break from the flag and I would lose stearage because the post would be turning without the rest of the rudder. In my opinion, if you see rust its time for a new rudder.

 

[Jude13141]

The Other Rudder

I have my old rudder next to my garage. My plan was to do an autopsy of it to see how far the rust effected the connection of the flags to the post. I was getting rust seaping from the rudder as well. When I spoke to the people at Foss Foam they told me that the post is stainless but the flag is regular steel. They made my new rudder out of all stainless for an extra charge. I cut my old one open to see how bad it actually was and let you know. My concern was that it would eventually break from the flag and I would lose stearage because the post would be turning without the rest of the rudder. In my opinion, if you see rust its time for a new rudder.

I have the other O Day 35 in Old Man's Boatyard in Mt Sinai NY. The brown stains were extensive and have been recurring for a few seasons. One fiberglass guy suggested that it was not rust but just dirty water. After reading your response, I decuded to buy a new rudder rather then repair. There was some fairing material on the rudder that came off in 8 inch diameter chunks. I had made some significant crack repairs a few years ago so it seemed like the right thing to do. If you do inspect the interior I think a lot of us would be interested in the results.

Jude

 

[rajhnsn]

I think you will have peace of mind. I was imagining being out in the middle of the bay with a tanker bearing down and the wheel spinning without the rudder moving. Didn't seem like a good way to get my family hooked on sailing. I'll try to take it apart this week and post some pictures.

The guys at Foss Foam were very helpful. They are the company that originally built the rudders for these boats. Good luck.

 

[jibes138]

I didn't keep my old rudder when it was replaced but it also had the rust you refer to and one of the reasons I went with the replacement. A large area about the size of a football delaminated so knowing the core was compromised I decided to get the new one. I used Interlux 2000 on it so hopefull water intrusion will be minimized. Another path is from the inside down the shaft and DeniseO noted the condensation that forms at the top of the rudder post. I think since the shaft diameter is not sealed there isn't much you can do about that. Some boats have the equivalent of a stuffing box on their rudder , these boats just went with a long shaft but there is a grease fitting on mine so you may want to inject some grease periodically as it will lubricate the bearings and may act a bit like a seal.