Rudder play and corroded radial drive wheel

[ChrisCall]

Looking for any help I have a 1989 wing keel. When I went to do seasonal maintenance on steering system I took the access cover off, the compartment was filled with water the access drain was clogged. There was a good amount of corrosion on the radial drive wheel. Cleaned out water and drain when I started to move and lub pullys and cable I could feel vibration. It seems to be coming from side play in the rudder. Looking further i wanted to check rudder stop . I looked under the radial drive wheel with a mirror as good as I could . the fiberglass is all cracked where the stop makes contact with the fiberglass ( attached photo) anyone have a similar situation? What did you do ? What my options?
Thanks

 

[Sanfelice]

My rudder tube moved and made for stiff steering. Upon inspection we found the tube was not glassed very well as observed from the back of the aft berth. Had to remove the panel to see this. Added more glass to add more strength and support to the tube. Hard to describe and I don't have any pictures. Once you remove the overhead panel in the aft berth you can see what I am talking about. Mine was not done well at the time of manufacture. If you have slop inside the tube itself there is a kit from West Systems to repair that. Others have placed mylar strips between the post and tube. Make sure your sheaves for the cables run free since they can stiffen up. Hope this is of help.

 

[kloudie1]

Looks like old cracks.. Usually happens when the wheel is let free while reversing; results in the rudder being forced hard over and into the stop with lots of force.. You can glue a thin strip of PVC trim foamboard over the stop surface to soften the hit. I don't think it is structural..
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Veranda...ite-PVC-Lattice-Moulding-0201808013/203822135

 

[George Da Porge]

We had some slop between our rudder post and the tube. 2 seasons ago I did the West Systems procedure for epoxy/graphite bearing pads at the top and bottom of the tube. It worked great. If you do this:
1) Apply plenty of to the rudder shaft to keep the rudder post from bonding to the epoxy. I am at work right now and don’t recall what I used. Will update post with info.
2) You’ll need to drop the rudder to clean out the tube. I used rags soaked in acetone and a stick. Then roughened inside top an bottom of tube.
3) The quadrant cannot be on the rudder, but the safety bolt (the one the emergency tiller goes over) can be used to hold the rudder up.
4) I made little wedges to put around the top and bottom of the rudder post. This was to center it in the tube and keep it as vertical as possible.
5) Even with the anti-seize material applied to the post, you do have to turn the rudder to “break it free”.
6) We has to remove the rudder after doing this and reinstall it (won’t get into that). To get it out we had to turn the rudder back and forth while pulling it down. It was hard, and then I found the friction was heating up the post pretty well. I was freaking out because I was thinking the heat might screw up the new bearing pads! So we grab a third person. While he and I turned the rudder back and forth my wife poured cold water down the tube. That helped a lot. When reinstalling the rudder I did end up using a piston jack to push it up. If you don’t need to remove the rudder after the epoxy cures, and you used the safety bolt to hold it up, you ought to be able to turn it back and forth and push it up with some help (while someone pours cold water down the tube.

This West Systems process really worked well. In spite of heating up the epoxy when first trying to remove the rudder, no issues. The rudder does not “wiggle” around whatsoever. Also, one may think the work needed to remove the rudder after and reinstall was an indication the fit was too tight (making it hard to turn with wheel) - it isn’t. The rudder turns very well.

It was hard to tell from your picture how bad the top of the post is (where the quadrant bears/rotates on). Mine was not in great shape, but I made a spacer from some 1/4 UHMW I had, and it’s fine for now.

 

[ChrisCall]

Thanks for all the info .I'm formulating a plan and will start this weekend . I have to take the radial wheel drive off to measure the inside diameter of it to see if it's the standard size bore ( I'm hoping it is cause catalina direct has a few in stock otherwise it will have to be machined out.)Did you have to dig a hole to get the rudder out ? If so do you remember how deep ? And how where you able to drill hole for the through bolt that secures the radial wheel drive to the rudder? Not sure how to get a drill in there. Thanks again for all the help

 

[George Da Porge]

Thanks for all the info .I'm formulating a plan and will start this weekend . I have to take the radial wheel drive off to measure the inside diameter of it to see if it's the standard size bore ( I'm hoping it is cause catalina direct has a few in stock otherwise it will have to be machined out.)Did you have to dig a hole to get the rudder out ? If so do you remember how deep ? And how where you able to drill hole for the through bolt that secures the radial wheel drive to the rudder? Not sure how to get a drill in there. Thanks again for all the help

Chris - I did not have to dig a hole to drop the rudder. The trailer I keep the boat on in the winter gives plenty of height to drop the rudder w/o digging a hole.

I work at a technical college and at the time was the facilities mgr for all building and vehicle maintenance. I used a drill press in our vehicle maintenance shop to drill the hole. Here’s another tidbit of info (I’m an engineer, so I decide stuff based on that background, which has it’s + & -!). I drilled that hole in the rudder about 1/4” too low (or too high) (more info on that below if you’re interested). To correct that I did not want to mess with trying to adjust the hole in the rudder post. So I ground a round l“channel” in the quadrant to accommodate this. I decided the 1 bolt is not responsible for securing the rudder to the quadrant. That is the responsibility of the 2 bolts on each side of the quadrant that hold the quadrant halves together - thru the clamping force they exert on the post. IMO (I didn’t check with Edson) the “middle” bolt is there to accommodate the emergency tiller AND to prevent the rudder from dropping out of the boat, should the quadrant halves come apart. The bolt does, of course, also provide some clamping force.

Just for grins here’s the story on how I drilled the hole too low. I got the new rudder in spring 2015. And FYI, when I set up the rudder/quadrant in spring 2015 to locate the bolt hole, believe me when I say I turned the wheel back and forth many times, as well as wiggling and pulling on the rudder a lot to ensure the quadrant was sitting right where it needed to be, before I marked the hole. And I did have the “bearing” ring under the quadrant atop the tube. I marked the hole, took out the rudder, drilled the hole and re-assembled. Then when I was testing that everything turned smooth, the rudder/quadrant dropped about 1/4”. It was quite a surprise and expletives we’re spewed forth freely. I was dumbfounded it happened, especially considering all the turning/pushing/pulling I did initially!