Rudder jammed

[DMendels]

I am new to the Forum, but would appreciate any advice. We were out on our 1974 Oday 27 for the 4th under power to watch fireworks and when we turned to head home the rudder jammed. It was a bit rough, but I did not hit anything or run aground. We went in circles for a bit until I was able to work it loose enough to steer. I have a tiller so the mechanism ought to be straightforward. Since then, it has been stiff, but moves. I dove down and could not see much except that it appears that it may have dropped 1/16th of an inch or so as there is a very small band unpainted on top. Has anyone run into anything like this before? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[the_alpine]

No specific experience other than does your rudder tube have a grease fitting? My rudder became very stiff at one point, after I squirted a bunch of waterprrof grease into the fitting all was well.

 

[DMendels]

No specific experience other than does your rudder tube have a grease fitting? My rudder became very stiff at one point, after I squirted a bunch of waterprrof grease into the fitting all was well.

Thanks very much, but there is no grease fitting that I am aware of. I have had the boat fro 11 years and this happened quite suddenly.

 

[agprice22]

I would think there are some dalrin washers in there. You lost one. The rudder jammed as it dropped. You should pull this apart, but it sounds like you need to pull the boat.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[DMendels]

I would think there are some dalrin washers in there. You lost one. The rudder jammed as it dropped. You should pull this apart, but it sounds like you need to pull the boat.

Thanks,

Andrew

Andrew,

Thanks very much. I fear you may be right. Have you ever done it? Should I be as terrified of doing this as I am at the moment? Will I do further damage if I try to wait for the winter haul?

Thanks again,

David

 

[25yearslater]

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. You need to get that boat hauled now. The 74 has the skeg in front of your rudder. The change out of the Delrin bushings is relatively easy. The rudder weighs in about 90 pounds or so. Trying to continue use may result in damage to either the rudder laminate or skeg laminate or both. Another area may be that the post has seized to a bushing which will damage the rudder tube which does not have a grease fitting. It may be as simple as finding something binding between the skeg and rudder. Pulling the rudder in the water would be quite a process that I wouldn't recommend.

 

[DMendels]

Thanks very much. This is enormously helpful. Not what I was hoping to hear, but enormously helpful. Any suggestions for a resource (book, website, mystical revelation) on how to go about doing it?

Thanks again,

David

 

[25yearslater]

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123244&page=3 this will give you a look at the bushings and rudder of a 76 model. The rudder is different but the bushings are the same. Next we need this http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=O27-205 These are the bushings. To remove you will need to remove the cross bolt from the rudder head that goes through the rudder post. Support the rudder before removing the bolt. Next there are two bolts that are on the front of the head. These compress the head to the post. Remove the rudder head. Remove the blocking or have the husky person begin to lower the rudder until it is free of the tube and bushings. Use a chopped off broom handle or dowel rod to bump the lower bushing up through the top. The top bushing can be lifted right out in all probability. Finish removing the bottom bushing. If the rudder doesn't drop freely you may have to gently tap the top with a rubber or dead blow hammer. Or use a block of wood on top of the post if using a steel hammer. Make sure the boat is high enough to drop the rudder. You will need about thirty inches to have the post clear the bushings. Or dig a hole under it. Once you get to this point we will see what the issue is other than a simple jam which may be apparent when hauled. The whole process is easy and not beyond anyone's ability. A new rudder for a 27 is almost 1600.00 so better to be safe.

 

[agprice22]

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123244&page=3 this will give you a look at the bushings and rudder of a 76 model. The rudder is different but the bushings are the same. Next we need this http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=O27%2D205 These are the bushings. To remove you will need to remove the cross bolt from the rudder head that goes through the rudder post. Support the rudder before removing the bolt. Next there are two bolts that are on the front of the head. These compress the head to the post. Remove the rudder head. Remove the blocking or have the husky person begin to lower the rudder until it is free of the tube and bushings. Use a chopped off broom handle or dowel rod to bump the lower bushing up through the top. The top bushing can be lifted right out in all probability. Finish removing the bottom bushing. If the rudder doesn't drop freely you may have to gently tap the top with a rubber or dead blow hammer. Or use a block of wood on top of the post if using a steel hammer. Make sure the boat is high enough to drop the rudder. You will need about thirty inches to have the post clear the bushings. Or dig a hole under it. Once you get to this point we will see what the issue is other than a simple jam which may be apparent when hauled. The whole process is easy and not beyond anyone's ability. A new rudder for a 27 is almost 1600.00 so better to be safe.

You forgot to add.... "...All while holding your breath underwater if you decide not to pull the boat!"

Eeek!

Nice work on the resources, by the way! You are a scholar and a gentleman!

Andrew

 

[DMendels]

Thank you VERY much

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123244&page=3 this will give you a look at the bushings and rudder of a 76 model. The rudder is different but the bushings are the same. Next we need this http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=O27-205 These are the bushings. To remove you will need to remove the cross bolt from the rudder head that goes through the rudder post. Support the rudder before removing the bolt. Next there are two bolts that are on the front of the head. These compress the head to the post. Remove the rudder head. Remove the blocking or have the husky person begin to lower the rudder until it is free of the tube and bushings. Use a chopped off broom handle or dowel rod to bump the lower bushing up through the top. The top bushing can be lifted right out in all probability. Finish removing the bottom bushing. If the rudder doesn't drop freely you may have to gently tap the top with a rubber or dead blow hammer. Or use a block of wood on top of the post if using a steel hammer. Make sure the boat is high enough to drop the rudder. You will need about thirty inches to have the post clear the bushings. Or dig a hole under it. Once you get to this point we will see what the issue is other than a simple jam which may be apparent when hauled. The whole process is easy and not beyond anyone's ability. A new rudder for a 27 is almost 1600.00 so better to be safe.

Thanks very much. This is an enormous help and I really appreciate it.

 

[DMendels]

Andrew,

Thanks for that, but I figure I'll wait for next time before trying it that way. For the first time round, I'll take the coward's way out and haul the boat.

Thanks to you too for the enormous help you have given me on this.

 

[25yearslater]

Glad to help, it's what we do as sailors. Any more headaches and there are a bunch of people here that are always willing to assist.

 

[DMendels]

Progress Report

I had the boat hauled this weekend. I had a devil of a time removing the cap from the rudder post as the corrosion had a pretty tight grip. It took several hours of heating and banging and, ultimately hammering a cold chisel into the slot on the cap just to spread it enough to get any slippage at all. That sucker was TIGHT. I was finally successful. The bushings actually looked fine, but I replaced them anyway as long as I had the rudder off and had bought them. I cleaned up the post, put a little grease on it and put it back in. and now everything works fine BUT - When I had the rudder out I noticed a crack at the very top of the rudder on the forward portion, right where it tucks in behind the skeg. Is this repairable? Is this fatal? Is this something that can be left alone?

Thanks again for all your help. I could not have done it without your help.

http://forums.oday.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=123244&page=3 this will give you a look at the bushings and rudder of a 76 model. The rudder is different but the bushings are the same. Next we need this http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=O27-205 These are the bushings. To remove you will need to remove the cross bolt from the rudder head that goes through the rudder post. Support the rudder before removing the bolt. Next there are two bolts that are on the front of the head. These compress the head to the post. Remove the rudder head. Remove the blocking or have the husky person begin to lower the rudder until it is free of the tube and bushings. Use a chopped off broom handle or dowel rod to bump the lower bushing up through the top. The top bushing can be lifted right out in all probability. Finish removing the bottom bushing. If the rudder doesn't drop freely you may have to gently tap the top with a rubber or dead blow hammer. Or use a block of wood on top of the post if using a steel hammer. Make sure the boat is high enough to drop the rudder. You will need about thirty inches to have the post clear the bushings. Or dig a hole under it. Once you get to this point we will see what the issue is other than a simple jam which may be apparent when hauled. The whole process is easy and not beyond anyone's ability. A new rudder for a 27 is almost 1600.00 so better to be safe.

 

[agprice22]

I had the boat hauled this weekend. I had a devil of a time removing the cap from the rudder post as the corrosion had a pretty tight grip. It took several hours of heating and banging and, ultimately hammering a cold chisel into the slot on the cap just to spread it enough to get any slippage at all. That sucker was TIGHT. I was finally successful. The bushings actually looked fine, but I replaced them anyway as long as I had the rudder off and had bought them. I cleaned up the post, put a little grease on it and put it back in. and now everything works fine BUT - When I had the rudder out I noticed a crack at the very top of the rudder on the forward portion, right where it tucks in behind the skeg. Is this repairable? Is this fatal? Is this something that can be left alone? Thanks again for all your help. I could not have done it without your help.

I would fix that! There is no reason to leave the interior of your rudder potentially exposed. My guess would be that there is enough torque there while sailing to produce a slight crack. Over time, it could grow, allow water into your rudder, and delaminate the glass from the substrate (foam, wood?). If it is not weeping now, it is probably not too bad. Let it dry. You can sand it, fair it with thickened epoxy (use heavyweight filler!), sand it smooth, then use bottom paint. It will only take a few hours if it is not large. You can use fast hardener if you don't need too big a batch. Mix the epoxy and the filler first to a thick paste, add the hardener, blend, and apply. To keep it from "kicking," keep it cool: use a larger container. I use a set of flat tupperware containers to mix in, and the mix seems to kick a little slower. You can also get slower hardener, but expect a much longer drying time. You won't be able to sand it for hours. The nice thing about the longer working time is that you can smooth the epoxy after you apply it.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[DMendels]

Thanks very much.

Thanks. It is a small crack and think I'll take my chances on waiting for the winter haul. Having the boat hauled is not only expensive, but eating into my sailing time which I am very jealous of. For all I know, it has been there for years already. Now that I have done it once (the definition of an expert, after all, is "someone who has done something once") and have gotten that cap loose, it should be a lot easier next time. Thanks again for so generously sharing your expertise.

I would fix that! There is no reason to leave the interior of your rudder potentially exposed. My guess would be that there is enough torque there while sailing to produce a slight crack. Over time, it could grow, allow water into your rudder, and delaminate the glass from the substrate (foam, wood?). If it is not weeping now, it is probably not too bad. Let it dry. You can sand it, fair it with thickened epoxy (use heavyweight filler!), sand it smooth, then use bottom paint. It will only take a few hours if it is not large. You can use fast hardener if you don't need too big a batch. Mix the epoxy and the filler first to a thick paste, add the hardener, blend, and apply. To keep it from "kicking," keep it cool: use a larger container. I use a set of flat tupperware containers to mix in, and the mix seems to kick a little slower. You can also get slower hardener, but expect a much longer drying time. You won't be able to sand it for hours. The nice thing about the longer working time is that you can smooth the epoxy after you apply it.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[25yearslater]

You are very welcome, glad all went well. Agprice has a very acceptable repair for your crack. The small hairline cracks are usually cosmetic more so than structural and may only be as deep as the gelcoat on your rudder.