Can anyone enlighten me on the pull down design on the Hunter 23 rudder? I hit a stump last week and destroyed the block used to run the line through. I have also noticed some similar 23's have a clutch instead of a cam cleat to secure the line used to hold the blade down. And suggestions, modifications would be appreciated.
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Rudder Rage
Dig back into the archives, Dan, and you'll find many posts about the rudder on the H23/23.5/240/26/260. Nobody has quite figured out the outhaul and downhaul lines because they really don't seem to work. You found out the hard way that it's not a good idea to cleat the rudder down because because it won't kick up when needed. The outhaul line won't lift the rudder out of the water so it's not of much use either. This piece of rope just gets into trouble. If the 'acorn' nuts are properly adjusted the large wing nut will supply plenty of compression to keep the rudder down and safely kick up when an immovable object is encountered. Be SURE the rudder is all the way down because handling is strange if it's kicked back a ways. After much discussion, it was determined that most of us use a boat hook to lift the rudder to the up position. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Dig back into the archives, Dan, and you'll find many posts about the rudder on the H23/23.5/240/26/260. Nobody has quite figured out the outhaul and downhaul lines because they really don't seem to work. You found out the hard way that it's not a good idea to cleat the rudder down because because it won't kick up when needed. The outhaul line won't lift the rudder out of the water so it's not of much use either. This piece of rope just gets into trouble. If the 'acorn' nuts are properly adjusted the large wing nut will supply plenty of compression to keep the rudder down and safely kick up when an immovable object is encountered. Be SURE the rudder is all the way down because handling is strange if it's kicked back a ways. After much discussion, it was determined that most of us use a boat hook to lift the rudder to the up position. Ken S/V Wouff Hong
Hey Ken
Thanks for the info, but what wing nut? Maybe that's my problem, can you elaborate further. Thanks in advance!
Thanks for the info, but what wing nut? Maybe that's my problem, can you elaborate further. Thanks in advance!
Maybe, but maybe not?
We seem to share similar problems with the rudder but maybe all the small Hunters aren't the same. I've got a 6" stainless wing nut that compresses the two metal plates to hold the rudder down. There are several bolts with acorn nuts but they shouldn't be that tight. My book is 60 miles away on the boat so I can't scan the picture for you. I'll get the book this week and also look at other Hunters in the marina. Maybe Dave can elaborate on this a little more. The advertising brochures on some of the small Hunters refers to the "kick up rudder" as a feature and believe me, it's a nice one Ken S/V Wouff Hong.
We seem to share similar problems with the rudder but maybe all the small Hunters aren't the same. I've got a 6" stainless wing nut that compresses the two metal plates to hold the rudder down. There are several bolts with acorn nuts but they shouldn't be that tight. My book is 60 miles away on the boat so I can't scan the picture for you. I'll get the book this week and also look at other Hunters in the marina. Maybe Dave can elaborate on this a little more. The advertising brochures on some of the small Hunters refers to the "kick up rudder" as a feature and believe me, it's a nice one Ken S/V Wouff Hong.
Thanks, Ken
I would appreciate it. Maybe you could send me your email address. Mine is danulrich@att.net Thanks Again
I would appreciate it. Maybe you could send me your email address. Mine is danulrich@att.net Thanks Again
Just looked at mine
I have a 1992 H23. I never really thought about it before I saw this Post. My rudder has a line that I pull to lower the rudder which goes throught a cam cleat then to a small cleat to tie off the line after it is secure in the cam cleat. If I slack this line, the rudder raises to an "L" shape. Just how should this kick up mechanism work? Thanks
I have a 1992 H23. I never really thought about it before I saw this Post. My rudder has a line that I pull to lower the rudder which goes throught a cam cleat then to a small cleat to tie off the line after it is secure in the cam cleat. If I slack this line, the rudder raises to an "L" shape. Just how should this kick up mechanism work? Thanks
Kick up rudder - Gary
The way this contraption works on my H23 is something like this... The line which pulls the rudder down and into position comes out the back of the rudder assembly, through a block, and up to a cam cleat. In the event that your rudder strikes a solid object (the bottom, a stump, the kid you're keel-hauling, whatever) the tension on this line causes it to pop out of the cam cleat, and the rudder swings up. When this happens, it's time to either find deeper water (your keel is going to be the next thing to hit), or untangle the object that's wrapped around the rudder (or let the poor kid up for air! ;o) The drawback to this design (at least on my boat, anyway) is that the line will sometimes pop out of the cam cleat with no warning, for no reason, and usually while I'm trying to avoid getting run over by commercial shipping traffic. It seems that this problem has been solved on your boat by the addition of a second cleat; this, however, defeats the purpose of the kick-up mechanism (since the line no longer releases when placed under heavy tension). To solve the problem on my boat, I removed the fairlead from the cam cleat on the rudder, and tied a single half-hitch (or a stop-knot) in the kick-up line just above the cam cleat. This helps prevent the line from slipping through the cam cleat (and the unwanted 'kick-up'), but requires a little more tension to 'pop' the rudder up when it hits something. Hope this answers your question... If you have any more, you can E-mail me at jbastien@mm0.net. --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL
The way this contraption works on my H23 is something like this... The line which pulls the rudder down and into position comes out the back of the rudder assembly, through a block, and up to a cam cleat. In the event that your rudder strikes a solid object (the bottom, a stump, the kid you're keel-hauling, whatever) the tension on this line causes it to pop out of the cam cleat, and the rudder swings up. When this happens, it's time to either find deeper water (your keel is going to be the next thing to hit), or untangle the object that's wrapped around the rudder (or let the poor kid up for air! ;o) The drawback to this design (at least on my boat, anyway) is that the line will sometimes pop out of the cam cleat with no warning, for no reason, and usually while I'm trying to avoid getting run over by commercial shipping traffic. It seems that this problem has been solved on your boat by the addition of a second cleat; this, however, defeats the purpose of the kick-up mechanism (since the line no longer releases when placed under heavy tension). To solve the problem on my boat, I removed the fairlead from the cam cleat on the rudder, and tied a single half-hitch (or a stop-knot) in the kick-up line just above the cam cleat. This helps prevent the line from slipping through the cam cleat (and the unwanted 'kick-up'), but requires a little more tension to 'pop' the rudder up when it hits something. Hope this answers your question... If you have any more, you can E-mail me at jbastien@mm0.net. --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL
Does it kick up?
Jon, I read your post....I dont see how the rudder could kick up the way mine is constructed. Hitting an object would put pressure on the rudder which would cause the line to pull tighter into the cam cleat?? Maybe my cam cleat is pointing in the wrong direction...the point is aft...if the point were forward ??? I'll have to look at it again. Gsry
Jon, I read your post....I dont see how the rudder could kick up the way mine is constructed. Hitting an object would put pressure on the rudder which would cause the line to pull tighter into the cam cleat?? Maybe my cam cleat is pointing in the wrong direction...the point is aft...if the point were forward ??? I'll have to look at it again. Gsry
Cam cleat for kick-up line
Gary, I think your cam cleat is pointed in the right direction... When enough tension is placed on the line, it will actually pop out of the cam cleat- There isn't enough friction from the lobes in the cam cleat to hold the line in place, and the line slides up and out from between the lobes. It SEEMS like the cam cleat would cinch down tighter on the kick-up line, making it impossible for the rudder to give-- In actuality, that cam cleat doesn't really have that much holding power. (Drove me nuts; 2 new cam cleats before I figured out that it was SUPPOSED to be like that!) If your rudder has a horn cleat to tie off the kick-up line, it would appear that a previous owner had the rudder pop up on him one time too many, and was more fed up with this 'feature' than I was!!
) If you're interested, I can try to take some pictures of my setup and post them for you- I just bought a new digital camera and I'm looking for excuses to use it! (Now, if I could just get the camera to talk to the computer...) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL
Gary, I think your cam cleat is pointed in the right direction... When enough tension is placed on the line, it will actually pop out of the cam cleat- There isn't enough friction from the lobes in the cam cleat to hold the line in place, and the line slides up and out from between the lobes. It SEEMS like the cam cleat would cinch down tighter on the kick-up line, making it impossible for the rudder to give-- In actuality, that cam cleat doesn't really have that much holding power. (Drove me nuts; 2 new cam cleats before I figured out that it was SUPPOSED to be like that!) If your rudder has a horn cleat to tie off the kick-up line, it would appear that a previous owner had the rudder pop up on him one time too many, and was more fed up with this 'feature' than I was!!
) If you're interested, I can try to take some pictures of my setup and post them for you- I just bought a new digital camera and I'm looking for excuses to use it! (Now, if I could just get the camera to talk to the computer...) --Jon Bastien H23 '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FLHow about the H240?
On the 240, there is just this "rudder up" line and "rudder down" line upon which you secure it on a cleat! I have been wondering what will happen when I eventually run in to something! What do other H240 owners do about this. Thanks much. Daniel, s/v Endeavors
On the 240, there is just this "rudder up" line and "rudder down" line upon which you secure it on a cleat! I have been wondering what will happen when I eventually run in to something! What do other H240 owners do about this. Thanks much. Daniel, s/v Endeavors
Jon
Jon, I'd love to see a pic of your setup. Do you think mine will still kick up even though the rudder line is cleated? thanks Gary
Jon, I'd love to see a pic of your setup. Do you think mine will still kick up even though the rudder line is cleated? thanks Gary
Rudder waggle
While were on the subject, I am a new owner of a 1986 Hunter 23..... How can I stop the rudder waggle or shutter or whatever you want to call it. I saw some previous posting that talked about installing a bushing at the pivot point, but I don't think that would help much. It is the forward end of the rudder which waggles. Do you have any advise? Thanks, John
While were on the subject, I am a new owner of a 1986 Hunter 23..... How can I stop the rudder waggle or shutter or whatever you want to call it. I saw some previous posting that talked about installing a bushing at the pivot point, but I don't think that would help much. It is the forward end of the rudder which waggles. Do you have any advise? Thanks, John
Cleated kick-up line
Gary, I don't think your rudder will kick up if you have the line tied off to the second cleat- It would never become loose enough for the rudder to float up. I'll try to get pictures posted as soon as I get them off my camera (again, when I figure out how to make the camera talk to the computer!). --Jon Bastien '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL P.S.- May be a few days- Hurricane Floyd wants to have some fun down here in the Keys...
Gary, I don't think your rudder will kick up if you have the line tied off to the second cleat- It would never become loose enough for the rudder to float up. I'll try to get pictures posted as soon as I get them off my camera (again, when I figure out how to make the camera talk to the computer!). --Jon Bastien '2 Sheets to the Wind' Key West, FL P.S.- May be a few days- Hurricane Floyd wants to have some fun down here in the Keys...
Rudder kickup
I have recently purchased a 23 myself and am having a great time with it. I grounded the rudder a few weeks ago a it scared the crap out of me, but thanks to the "kickup rudder" nothing serious happened. I have a rope running up from the upper aft area of the rudder though a cam cleat. I beleive the cleat held, but the rope actually did something unusual. It appears that it was kind of a rope within a rope or that it had a protective covering. anyway the covering sheared and broke allowing the inner rope to slide through and the rudder to kick-up. The bonus was that I was still able to lower the rudder with the inner rope. I'm not sure if I can find any more of this rope, but I'd like to. If I groud now and the rope breaks I'm SOL.
I have recently purchased a 23 myself and am having a great time with it. I grounded the rudder a few weeks ago a it scared the crap out of me, but thanks to the "kickup rudder" nothing serious happened. I have a rope running up from the upper aft area of the rudder though a cam cleat. I beleive the cleat held, but the rope actually did something unusual. It appears that it was kind of a rope within a rope or that it had a protective covering. anyway the covering sheared and broke allowing the inner rope to slide through and the rudder to kick-up. The bonus was that I was still able to lower the rudder with the inner rope. I'm not sure if I can find any more of this rope, but I'd like to. If I groud now and the rope breaks I'm SOL.
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