Rub Rail Replacement

RECESS · Apr 21, 2009

I have been looking for resources as this weekend will be my installation also. I have read several accounts on installation. Some seem to go a little too far with clamps or come alongs to pull a section back while heating it across the bow. This video is of a aluminum rub rail with a rigid vinyl insert. At the 5:15 mark they go into how to bend rigid vinyl. I do not own a heat gun but my wife owns a nuclear powered hair dryer and I have read and it is said in the video if you are patient, it will do the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amd2WxUvso

Mich222 · Apr 22, 2009

Dwight: I replaced my rubrail when my boat was in St. Paul and the temp was about 85 degrees. Clearly St. Paul is a much hotter city than MPLS will ever be ( a little friendly border war between the Twin Cities!!) , however MPLS should get a bit warmer in the next month or so. If you can wait until then, the rub rail will be like butter and install much easier.

adirondackbob · Apr 22, 2009

Dwight, I replaced the rubrail on my Oday 23 last year. After lots of research and posting some requests for advice on this forum (which was very helpful), I ended up buying a heat gun, which worked fine for bending the PVC around the stern corners and bow peak. For the most part it went smoothly, but the stern corners were tricky. I found it very difficult to keep the bend tight to the fiberglass. Also, it definitely helps to have two people. And as mick222 says, do it on a warm day. One last bit of advice: uncoil the PVC and lay it out on your lawn or driveway (with padding underneath so it doesn't get scratched) under some weights to make it flat for a few days before doing the job. That will make it a little easier to handle the PVC, which is quite stiff.

Good luck!

Bob

Shoaldrafter · Apr 22, 2009

Dave Recess of Quitman, Thank You

Dave,

Your Url was great tutorial. Thanks.

Ed K
26

RECESS said:
I have been looking for resources as this weekend will be my installation also. I have read several accounts on installation. Some seem to go a little too far with clamps or come alongs to pull a section back while heating it across the bow. This video is of a aluminum rub rail with a rigid vinyl insert. At the 5:15 mark they go into how to bend rigid vinyl. I do not own a heat gun but my wife owns a nuclear powered hair dryer and I have read and it is said in the video if you are patient, it will do the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7amd2WxUvso

Joe11688 · Apr 22, 2009

Dwight Thomas said:
Okay, it been two years I've been putting this off, but now is the time. I need to replace my Rub Rail on my 1982 Oday 25. It is a rigid PVC material and I have a couple friends/relatives helping me, I have all the materials, the new PVC Rail and the Rubber insert. I want the job to turn out looking as good as the old one (only not cracked and brittle). Does anybody have any tips? Has anybody done this job before? I know I have to heat the rail to make the turns around the stern and bow, but how do you do that? With a heat gun? or a boiling pot of Water? like I'm cooking a hugh noodle? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks wishing this job were behind me in Minneapolis, Dwight

Dwight,
The only other thing that I might add is to make sure that you use a caulking similar to Dow Corning 795, which is very friendly to PVC. Regular boat caulking with Polysufide will cause a bad chemical reaction to the plastic, and silicone caulkings don't really cut it as an adhesive type caulking. They act too much as a gasket than a caulking. This DC 795 is being used for port lights, plastic hatches and deck plates on the new boats. Good luck!
Joe

RECESS · Apr 22, 2009

I have several tubes of 3M 4200, which is a polyurethane adhesive and is supposed to be good to use with plastics. Does anyone see a down side to using it with a PVC rigid rub rail?

Joe11688 · Apr 23, 2009

RECESS said:
I have several tubes of 3M 4200, which is a polyurethane adhesive and is supposed to be good to use with plastics. Does anyone see a down side to using it with a PVC rigid rub rail?

This is a copy of page 8 from Don Casey's "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair." I'll let you make the call on what to use.
Joe

/

Y

OUwalk into a marine store and there they are, dozens of different cartridges

and tubes standing on shelves, stacked in bins, and hanging in blister cards.
Geez, how many different kinds of marine sealants can there be?
Three. That's it. Three. Understand these three and you have the selection
process whipped.

POLYSULFIDE
Polysulfide is the SwissArmy knife in marine
sealants; you can use it for almost everything. Often
called Thiokol (a trademark for the polymer that is
the main ingredient of all polysulfide sealants
regardless of manufacturer), polysulfide is a synthetic
rubber with excellent adhesive characteristics.
As a bedding compound it allows for movements
associated with stress and temperature
change, yet maintains the integrity of the seal by
gripping tenaciously to both surfaces. Polysulfide is
also an excellent caulking compound since it can
be sanded after it cures and it takes paint well.
Usepolysulfide for everything exceptplastic.
Polysulfide bonds aswell to plastic surfaces asto any
other, but the solvents in the sealant attack some
plastics, causing them to harden and split.
Specifically, don't use polysulfide to bed plastic portlights,
either acrylic (Plexiglas) or polycarbonate
(Lexan). Don't use'it to bed plastic deck fittings
(including portlight frames); plastic marine fittings
are generally either ABSor PVC,and polysulfide will
attack both. Any plastic fitting made of epoxy, nylon,
or Delrin-such as quality plastic through-hull fittings-
may be safely bedded with polysulfide.
The black caulking between"the planks of a
teak deck is polysulfide. For this application, a
two-part polysulfide gives the best results.
Because polysulfide adheres well to teak (a special
primer improves adhesion), and because it is
unaffected by harsh teak cleaners, it is also the
8

~ LEAKS

best choice for bedding teak rails and trim.
Polysulfides are the slowest curing of the three
types of sealant, often taking a week or more to
reach full cure.
POLYURETHANE
Polyurethane is the bulldog of marine sealantsonce
it gets a grip, it doesn't turn loose. Polyurethane
is such a tenacious adhesive that its bond
should be thought of as permanent; if there is any
likelihood that you will want to separate the two
parts later, don't use polyurethane to seal them.
Use polyurethane anywhere you want a perma

nentjoint.

This is the best sealant

for the hull-todeck

joint. It is also a good choice for through-hull
fittings and for toerails and rubrails, but not if they
are raw teak because some teak cleaners soften it.
Like polysulfide, polyurethane should not be used
on most plastics-acrylic, polycarbonate, PVC,or
ABS.
The cure time for polyurethane is generally
shorter than polysulfide, but still may be up to a
.week.

SILICONE
Silicone can seem like the snake oil of the marine
sealant trio. A bead of this modern miracle is too

often expected to cure any and every leak. And it

RECESS · Apr 23, 2009

Could I have 3M 4000 UV that is made from polyether and PVC compatibility for 800 Alex? I have some tubes of that also.

adirondackbob · Apr 24, 2009

Dwight Thomas said:
Thanks for your response, I actually have 2-3 friends helping me so we will go through some beer. One quick Question on a serious note: What temparature setting did you use on your heat gun, I am afraid that I might scorch the Gel coat on my Boat trying to heat the PVC and form it around the corners. I have also thought of "tacking" or duck taping the PVC temporarily to the boat and marking the area where the bend needs to be, then removing the PVC to heat it and then placing it back on the boat after it is softened, then screw it in place does this sound like it will work in you experience?

Dwight, I don't remember the specific setting I used on the heat gun. Sorry. But I did heat the PVC away from the surface of the boat itself. What I did with the corners was to attach the PVC to the boat (on the starboard or port side--whichever I was working on) and temporarily set a few screws to within about a foot of the stern corner so that the piece extended straight out past the corner. Then I took the heat gun and warmed the PVC until it was pliable (directing the heat away from the boat) and carefully bent it around the corner. I had a partner hold it in place while I set a few screws. After it cooled (which didn't take long) , I removed the screws, applied the caulking, and then reset the screws.

Your suggested method sounds like it would work, based on my experience. As I mentioned, the corners were tricky. It didn't take too much heat to make the PVC pliable, but the specific shape of the PVC rubrail molding makes bending it around such a sharp corner difficult. If the PVC wasn't warm enough, the molding tended to kink; if it was too warm, it would become misshapen. My best advice is to take it slow.

I hope this helps.

Bob

48dodge · Apr 24, 2009

When I ordered rubrail, I went with the semi-rigid stuff. Hopefully going that route doesn't bite me in the butt. It really does seem almost as rigid as the regular stuff, just a slightly softer feel to it. I'll probably have to apply the same techniques to install it. I will almost definitely be using a caulk though where I wasn't planning on using any if I went with the rigid. Anyone used the semi-rigid stuff?

RECESS · Apr 25, 2009

So far it is looking good, but this really sucks. I have been at it for an hour and half and completed 10 feet. I am being very careful and have mad it to the bow where I have to do my first bit of heating. Luckily it is a hot day and the rub rail is in direct sunlight.

I can look down the rubrail and see it is not perfectly flat but I think being in the sun for a few weeks will cure that. I would hold off if I where in a climate that is just averaging in the 60s right now. Hot sun is your friend.

RECESS · Apr 25, 2009

Hair dryer worked really good, it got the rub rail hot and pliable but never got the fiberglass hot. Ran out of torque with a cordless drill with only 7 feet left with the first strip. It is coming along really well. You will have to excuse my paint over hardware, after it getting under the tape for the first couple coats of primer I decided to just let it go and sand it down after I finished the whole job.

RECESS · Apr 29, 2009

Dwight did you do yours this weekend? My assistant got a nasty cold and I had to call in a friend. I am all the way around the back but I need to stop and get a sharp hacksaw blade. A utility razor was just not the tool to cut the rigid PVC and have it look good. I was smart enough to test cutting it on the end of the extra rub rail instead of jumping right on the place I need to cut it.