Hi all – I just installed a CDI Roller Furling on my Catalina 30 and used it for the first time this weekend. I had a very difficult time furling the headsail (a 135%) in and wanted to check here for some advice. It unfurled with no problems. A while later, the wind kicked up to about 20 knots and decided it was time to get in. The main was down and covered…when it came time to furl the head sail the furling line was just so tight I could not get her to budge. I had the boat almost into the wind to take pressure off the sail but it was still very tight. I eventually put a winch on the furling line and was able to crank it in with no problems. Is there anything I should have done differently? Should I power the boat with the engine into the wind or leave the main up before I furl the jib? Thanks – appreciate your help here. Rob
Roller Furling question/use
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Pressure may be the key
Rob: Be careful using the winch to bring in the sail - these should work with good old power by "armstrong." I turn on the engine and motor directly into the wind most of the time. The problem may likely be the line wrap on the drum. If you don't get a good smooth wrap, the line will roll over a preceding wrap and then it will be a bear to furl the sail. As you unfurl the sail, keep good, constant pressure on the furling line -- I run mine under one side of a deck cleat and use the friction of the deck cleat to keep tension on the line as the sail comes out. Doing this gives you a much more controlled and organized wrap on the drum and makes the job of bringing in the sail much, much easier. I understand some people run the line through a ratchet block to help maintain the pressure - I do it the cheap way with the cleat! Have a great sail this weekend.
Rob: Be careful using the winch to bring in the sail - these should work with good old power by "armstrong." I turn on the engine and motor directly into the wind most of the time. The problem may likely be the line wrap on the drum. If you don't get a good smooth wrap, the line will roll over a preceding wrap and then it will be a bear to furl the sail. As you unfurl the sail, keep good, constant pressure on the furling line -- I run mine under one side of a deck cleat and use the friction of the deck cleat to keep tension on the line as the sail comes out. Doing this gives you a much more controlled and organized wrap on the drum and makes the job of bringing in the sail much, much easier. I understand some people run the line through a ratchet block to help maintain the pressure - I do it the cheap way with the cleat! Have a great sail this weekend.
Winch
Thanks Steve - do you htink I did any damage using the winch? I check the drum prior to winching and the line looked aligned - it was just really blowing and I could not get enough pressure off the sail to furl...I would get a turn and then she would pull free from my hand.
Thanks Steve - do you htink I did any damage using the winch? I check the drum prior to winching and the line looked aligned - it was just really blowing and I could not get enough pressure off the sail to furl...I would get a turn and then she would pull free from my hand.
Lead Angle
We have a Harken Unit 1.5 and these are suggestions based on what we learned. The lead angle from the drum must be at least 90 degrees off the furling drum. Try to maintain wide angles leading aft. Is the furling line running aft in a clear path and not rubbing against anything? Do you have halyard wrap at the head in which case you'll need a halyard restrainer. Try falling off into a broad reach to furl. Is your furling line tangled in the drum? The furling system was a great improvement on our boat for the admiral.
We have a Harken Unit 1.5 and these are suggestions based on what we learned. The lead angle from the drum must be at least 90 degrees off the furling drum. Try to maintain wide angles leading aft. Is the furling line running aft in a clear path and not rubbing against anything? Do you have halyard wrap at the head in which case you'll need a halyard restrainer. Try falling off into a broad reach to furl. Is your furling line tangled in the drum? The furling system was a great improvement on our boat for the admiral.
I think it is
The line runs directly back along side the stanchions. I will have to check the agle coming out of the drum though. I will need a day w/o any wind to play with it I guess.
The line runs directly back along side the stanchions. I will have to check the agle coming out of the drum though. I will need a day w/o any wind to play with it I guess.
Had Catalina 30 with CDI
I pretty much agree with others said about the retrieving line getting some roll-over. This happens when you Furl "In" without steady pressure on your sheets. HOWEVER, i wrote about the following on a different post not too long ago, when someone querried about the CDI on a Catalina 30. What i really think it is, isssssssss.......that the CDI in general, unless they changed recently, is too small for the Catalina 30. The drum size is much smaller than almost any other manufacturer's drum on a boat that size. Think of the drum as a pulley or turning black. The smaller the diameter, the more effort required. The 2 thimgs that i do is: 1). Furl jib/genoa before taking down main. And 2). I Eventually mounted a cam cleat near the winch, just for the furling line. When winds get much over 25, i have to sit athwartship ( across the cockpit ) with my legs braced for extra strength, pull in on the line with the winch double wrapped (but without using the winch handle), cam cleat it, get a new grip, and do it again. It takes a while to get it all in. I had a 150 on mine. On the post i mentioned earlier, i RECOMMENDED AGAINST THE CDI for a Catalina 30, stating that I had one and knew from experience. The CDI is just fine for slightly smaller boats. Catalina 30's have quite a massive jib for a 30 footer
I pretty much agree with others said about the retrieving line getting some roll-over. This happens when you Furl "In" without steady pressure on your sheets. HOWEVER, i wrote about the following on a different post not too long ago, when someone querried about the CDI on a Catalina 30. What i really think it is, isssssssss.......that the CDI in general, unless they changed recently, is too small for the Catalina 30. The drum size is much smaller than almost any other manufacturer's drum on a boat that size. Think of the drum as a pulley or turning black. The smaller the diameter, the more effort required. The 2 thimgs that i do is: 1). Furl jib/genoa before taking down main. And 2). I Eventually mounted a cam cleat near the winch, just for the furling line. When winds get much over 25, i have to sit athwartship ( across the cockpit ) with my legs braced for extra strength, pull in on the line with the winch double wrapped (but without using the winch handle), cam cleat it, get a new grip, and do it again. It takes a while to get it all in. I had a 150 on mine. On the post i mentioned earlier, i RECOMMENDED AGAINST THE CDI for a Catalina 30, stating that I had one and knew from experience. The CDI is just fine for slightly smaller boats. Catalina 30's have quite a massive jib for a 30 footer
Easy roller-furling of your jib
I have a differnt boat (2005 Hunter 36), but I offer a well-known technique for easy jib furling that you might consider. If you want to see how easy your roller furler can make life, furl your jib while your mainsail is up to blanket it and relieve it (and the furler) of the much of the wind load. Just let the boat fall off so the wind is well behind your beam (120 degrees or so) and the mainsail will blanket the jib. Ease your jib sheet sufficiently to allow the jib to baloon out beyond the forestay, and haul in your furing line while keeping some pressure on the sheets to maintain a nice tight wrap. (I usually put 3 extra turns on to wrap the sheets around the furled jib for secure stowage.) The key is keeping the remaining jib balooned beyond the forestay as you haul in. I've done it in 25kts of true wind, gusting over 30 with only a triple-reefed mainsail to do the blanketing. No sweat. (Passing through high wind abeam while falling off can be a little exciting if not executed crisply, but the saving in wear-and-tear on jib, furler and skipper by this maneuver is well worth it. Besides, this maneuver is essential to know to reduce high apparent windfs sufficiently to asllow reefing in heavy weather, so learn to do it crisply.)
I have a differnt boat (2005 Hunter 36), but I offer a well-known technique for easy jib furling that you might consider. If you want to see how easy your roller furler can make life, furl your jib while your mainsail is up to blanket it and relieve it (and the furler) of the much of the wind load. Just let the boat fall off so the wind is well behind your beam (120 degrees or so) and the mainsail will blanket the jib. Ease your jib sheet sufficiently to allow the jib to baloon out beyond the forestay, and haul in your furing line while keeping some pressure on the sheets to maintain a nice tight wrap. (I usually put 3 extra turns on to wrap the sheets around the furled jib for secure stowage.) The key is keeping the remaining jib balooned beyond the forestay as you haul in. I've done it in 25kts of true wind, gusting over 30 with only a triple-reefed mainsail to do the blanketing. No sweat. (Passing through high wind abeam while falling off can be a little exciting if not executed crisply, but the saving in wear-and-tear on jib, furler and skipper by this maneuver is well worth it. Besides, this maneuver is essential to know to reduce high apparent windfs sufficiently to asllow reefing in heavy weather, so learn to do it crisply.)
CDI on a 22
I've used a CDI and a 150% genoa on my 22 for 3 seasons now. As stated earlier, I generally furl my genoa before I drop the main. If you are sailing downwind and want to furl, simply have the mainsail blanket the genoa, and then furl. Even when sailing on a high tack, I seem to have no trouble furling in to reduce the genoa. I ease the sheets to take the pressure off the genoa and then pull on the furling line. One reason I think I have no problem is because I use a Harkin cam cleat with the Harkin X-Treme angle fairlead. The fairlead allows me to pull on the furling line even at a 90' angle. Westmarine sells the Harkin cams and fairleads Part # 3732690. When I get the genoa furled to the clew, I take both sheets off the winches, and hold them lightly in my hands as I finish furling, to keep them neatly wrapped around the genoa. Since you are new to furling, one more important point. When putting the boat away, wrap a short piece of line or a web strap several times around the furled genoa and tie with a square knot. That is to prevent an accidental unfurling while you are away from the boat. Also, put some slack in the furling line, so that if the wind pumps the furled genoa, the furling line won't get cut along the edge of the stainless furling drum.
I've used a CDI and a 150% genoa on my 22 for 3 seasons now. As stated earlier, I generally furl my genoa before I drop the main. If you are sailing downwind and want to furl, simply have the mainsail blanket the genoa, and then furl. Even when sailing on a high tack, I seem to have no trouble furling in to reduce the genoa. I ease the sheets to take the pressure off the genoa and then pull on the furling line. One reason I think I have no problem is because I use a Harkin cam cleat with the Harkin X-Treme angle fairlead. The fairlead allows me to pull on the furling line even at a 90' angle. Westmarine sells the Harkin cams and fairleads Part # 3732690. When I get the genoa furled to the clew, I take both sheets off the winches, and hold them lightly in my hands as I finish furling, to keep them neatly wrapped around the genoa. Since you are new to furling, one more important point. When putting the boat away, wrap a short piece of line or a web strap several times around the furled genoa and tie with a square knot. That is to prevent an accidental unfurling while you are away from the boat. Also, put some slack in the furling line, so that if the wind pumps the furled genoa, the furling line won't get cut along the edge of the stainless furling drum.
Careful with that winch
Be careful if you put the furling line on a winch. Its not hard to over do it since you're putting a lot of lateral force on the furler bearings and forestay. Worst case, you can tear the forestay from the bow of the boat. I don't like to think about what's happens after that. I was in a similar situation on a friend's Hunter 31 in 35+ winds. We couldn't get the jib in going upwind, even with some help from the winch, and the only way we could get it back in was to head downwind with the head sail luffing out in front of the boat. Once we swung around downwind and we were able to furl it by hand. I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't there doing it myself.
Be careful if you put the furling line on a winch. Its not hard to over do it since you're putting a lot of lateral force on the furler bearings and forestay. Worst case, you can tear the forestay from the bow of the boat. I don't like to think about what's happens after that. I was in a similar situation on a friend's Hunter 31 in 35+ winds. We couldn't get the jib in going upwind, even with some help from the winch, and the only way we could get it back in was to head downwind with the head sail luffing out in front of the boat. Once we swung around downwind and we were able to furl it by hand. I wouldn't have believed it if I wasn't there doing it myself.
An additional thought to add...
...to the wisdom already cited. You may want to check that the blocks that lead your furling line aft to the cockpit are large enough (or the line is not too large for them). A little friction in each of these three or four blocks will add up to lots of resistance by the time you're trying to furl the sail.
...to the wisdom already cited. You may want to check that the blocks that lead your furling line aft to the cockpit are large enough (or the line is not too large for them). A little friction in each of these three or four blocks will add up to lots of resistance by the time you're trying to furl the sail.
Won't budge
If it really won't budge, it could be that the halyard slipped a few inches. That drops the upper mech and distorts the twisting ability. This effectively has the mech turning into the forestay instead of staying put. Need to crank up the halyard so mech is atop. All better.
If it really won't budge, it could be that the halyard slipped a few inches. That drops the upper mech and distorts the twisting ability. This effectively has the mech turning into the forestay instead of staying put. Need to crank up the halyard so mech is atop. All better.
Winch!?
Rob, I have the same boat. Al is right. When you do this in the slip, you'll be amazed at how smoothly the thing runs, with no wind pressure on it. Look at the standing rigging on your boat, then compare how sturdily your furler is built. They're just not made to be used under the same kinds of strains. It doesn't take much pressure to make that genoa difficult to wind in with the relatively small drum diameter: doesn't give you much mechanical advantage, as has been pointed out below. Reducing the pressure on the sail is the key On light days, pinch up and roll it in. But when there's a fresh breeze, I always use Al's technique described quite clearly below. (If I have crew who can man the furling line and genoa sheet simultaneously, this can all be done in one fluid maneuver). Keeping the genoa in a semi-collapsed state (lots of sheet eased so it's spilling wind and de-powered, as Al describes, is the key). BTW, I always roll in the genoa and keep the main up when coming in, so I can still be under sail and maneuverable (read: able to tack) in case I have a stalled engine at an inopportune moment. I motorsail all the way down to my fairway this way, tidying up sheets & hanging fenders. Dropping/securing the main is the last thing I do before entering the fairway and docking into the slip. You'll call me paranoid until your engine quits on the way in in close quarters with all your sails put to sleep, scrambling for the anchor locker and winding up blocking traffic hanging on your hook. That is, if you have any room at all to drop an anchor and pay out enough line to set it. Always ask yourself, "If the engine quits NOW, what would I do?" Keeping your main up and staying to windward in close quarters whenever practicable is good seamanship, in my book. Try it. You'll like it. Jeff
Rob, I have the same boat. Al is right. When you do this in the slip, you'll be amazed at how smoothly the thing runs, with no wind pressure on it. Look at the standing rigging on your boat, then compare how sturdily your furler is built. They're just not made to be used under the same kinds of strains. It doesn't take much pressure to make that genoa difficult to wind in with the relatively small drum diameter: doesn't give you much mechanical advantage, as has been pointed out below. Reducing the pressure on the sail is the key On light days, pinch up and roll it in. But when there's a fresh breeze, I always use Al's technique described quite clearly below. (If I have crew who can man the furling line and genoa sheet simultaneously, this can all be done in one fluid maneuver). Keeping the genoa in a semi-collapsed state (lots of sheet eased so it's spilling wind and de-powered, as Al describes, is the key). BTW, I always roll in the genoa and keep the main up when coming in, so I can still be under sail and maneuverable (read: able to tack) in case I have a stalled engine at an inopportune moment. I motorsail all the way down to my fairway this way, tidying up sheets & hanging fenders. Dropping/securing the main is the last thing I do before entering the fairway and docking into the slip. You'll call me paranoid until your engine quits on the way in in close quarters with all your sails put to sleep, scrambling for the anchor locker and winding up blocking traffic hanging on your hook. That is, if you have any room at all to drop an anchor and pay out enough line to set it. Always ask yourself, "If the engine quits NOW, what would I do?" Keeping your main up and staying to windward in close quarters whenever practicable is good seamanship, in my book. Try it. You'll like it. Jeff
Ross Wrongo!
CDI's are torlon bearings much the same only larger diameter than several others ....H , for one , my wife furls our 155 genoa partially filled with little effort , Id like to hear where these complaints on CDI are coming from , I was ready to invest in a new Schaeffer furler till I found out I could upgrade my 25 yo CDI ,with aluminum extrusions , I installed the upgrade in an hour , yes myself ...... I AM IMPRESSED in all respects with my CDI , Btw we sail a 30 also . And no I have no association with CDI but sure wish I did as CDI's customer support should be commended ......
CDI's are torlon bearings much the same only larger diameter than several others ....H , for one , my wife furls our 155 genoa partially filled with little effort , Id like to hear where these complaints on CDI are coming from , I was ready to invest in a new Schaeffer furler till I found out I could upgrade my 25 yo CDI ,with aluminum extrusions , I installed the upgrade in an hour , yes myself ...... I AM IMPRESSED in all respects with my CDI , Btw we sail a 30 also . And no I have no association with CDI but sure wish I did as CDI's customer support should be commended ......
Roadtool, My friends are riggers, CDI may
have gotten religion in recent years. But the troubles that I referred to did exist. With rolled furling it remains not if it will fail but when it will fail. You never hear about a hanked on jib that can be struck.
have gotten religion in recent years. But the troubles that I referred to did exist. With rolled furling it remains not if it will fail but when it will fail. You never hear about a hanked on jib that can be struck.
Ross no its just a total nuisance
Doing a sail change while single handing in 6 ft seas , a furler , wheel pilot and self tailers are definately necessities , now argue that .
Doing a sail change while single handing in 6 ft seas , a furler , wheel pilot and self tailers are definately necessities , now argue that .
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