Roller furler

[tnathan]

i have a dumb question. I have never had a problem before, but this season my roller furler seems to keep jamming when I unfurl. Are there any tips or tricks? Not sure what’s happening it seems like the middle part of the sail draws out the underlying wrap of sail and clogs the slot. I have tried keeping pressure on the furler as I unfurl and visa versa when I furl. Then try unfurling and it jams again. Never a problem going in but keeps jamming when I try to pull her out.

I did have my marina over the winter make new lines and tune the rig. I was wondering if they have too much rake or something. Are there some things I should look at? any tips or ticks?
Tim

 

[DayDreamer41]

Is your boom at the right angle when you furl the sail? Sounds like the sail is overlapping when its being furled so either your boom is at the wrong angle or you are not keeping enough tension on the sail as you furl it in.

 

[mcrow33]

I assume you are talking main sail? Check to see if you have too much bend in the mast. When ever I either unfurl or furl, I always release the vang, main sheet and be just off the wind so the boom is just a few degrees on the port side. I always make sure that there is a lot of tension on the out haul when furling.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Probably not what you want to hear, but - If it was never a problem before it could be that the middle of the sail is getting stretched out. Once the midsection is stretched it might not furl as smoothly as originally designed. A sail maker might be able to do a “nip and tuck” to get it closer to its original shape again.

 

[tnathan]

Thanks for the replies. I think all of you may be on the trail.

@DayDreamer41 when you say boom angle do you mean up down (Vang) or are you saying the angle of the boom to port/starboard?

@mcrow33. Thanks. I tried putting some pressure on the Vang hoping that it would draw in straighter as well as letting everything lose. Didn’t seem to help either way. But, keeping the boom to port did seem to help. Maybe it is bad form but I use to be able to draw the main in even if the boom was, say, 10 -20 degrees off the centerline to either side. Boom to port seemed to help. She just seems more finicky then she use to be.

@davidasailor I also think you might be onto something. I think I am going to pull the main and take her to a local loft . That might explain why I am having to exercise so much finess.

Thanks to everyone for some great thoughts. I have had her for 3 years now and wanted to make sure there wasn’t something dumb I was supposed to be doing like greasing the magic furling bolt.

 

[DayDreamer41]

Boom angle in both the vertical and horizontal, boom to port approximately 15* for counterclockwise sail clew level with furler. If the boom is too low you are putting dowward tension on the leech which could result in a baggy area in the middle of the sail.

 

[tnathan]

Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated. I will give it a go.

 

[shemandr]

Probably not what you want to hear, but - If it was never a problem before it could be that the middle of the sail is getting stretched out. Once the midsection is stretched it might not furl as smoothly as originally designed. A sail maker might be able to do a “nip and tuck” to get it closer to its original shape again.

Ditto.

 

[tnathan]

Thanks again to everyone. Went to bacons today and they agree. Said most likely the middle of the sail has blown out and you can try massage it by keeping tension on it as you furl but it’s a losing battle.

 

[Capn John]

Check to see if you have too much bend in the mast.

Before buying a new sail, follow up on this comment. The sail might be blown out, but you didn't have any trouble at all last year. You DID have your marina mess with the rigging over the winter, and if they put a bunch of pre-bend into the mast, that would explain why you suddenly have a problem this year.

 

[DayDreamer41]

@Capn John unless of course tnathan is looking for a reason to purchase a new main sail, you know something to tell the first mate as to why he has to replace the sail with a shiny new one........

 

[tnathan]

Thanks. I beat up my sail good so needed a quick replacement to finish the season. Went to bacons, and they had a used one. Will need to think about when to buy new over the winter. Unfortunately, sailed bacons sail yesterday and had the same problem. So either bacons sold me an equally blown sail or its something else like prebend. I paid good money last year to a rigger to tune my rig. So I assumed it was set right, but beginning to wonder. Would be sad to learn that I paid a professional Annapolis rigger to create this issue.

I did some research online today and Neil Pryde recommends a straight mast with no more than 1”of prebend. I will check that today. I also read some folks suggest putting Sialkote on the sails, mast slot. I figure it’s worth a shot too for $15, but frankly it’s a little hard for me to see how that’s the issue.

 

[NYSail]

I had a rigger check and adjust my rig at beginning of season . He put a bend in mast that caused same issue you are having.... I spoke with us spar and they say no additional bend other than what mast was made with. I had rigger come back and correct and have had no issues since. Also check your boom angle. If boom is raised too high you will also have issues. This is my first season with inmast furler and now am enjoying it.
Good luck!​

 

[JamesG161]

For some tips and good discussion on in-mast furling, with pictures even.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com//index.php?threads/in-mast-piece-of-crap-furling-system.175976/


Note the Posted link's title.

Boom angle explained.
_______
Read the entire thread about the "mechanism" and how to trouble shoot too.
Jim...

PS: I can help in Private Message or by phone.

 

[bob_pattison]

Tim,
All you will need to know here: https://www.neilprydesails.com/beneteau-videos
Mast has to be straight. NO prebend.
Sail older than 10 years? If so do NOT spend any money on recutting as you won't be spending the money wisely. Better to follow tips in video and save those dollars for new sail.
The wrap/fold is happening because of friction in the system...holding the outhaul line, sticky track, blocks or other.

Bob Pattison
Neil Pryde Sails

 

[tnathan]

Thanks Bob. I have reviewed the videos. And, we stopped by the booth on Sunday and that was the same guidance you all gave there.

Moreover, we also went around and spoke to sparcraft and a couple of riggers. At the show sparcraft walked me around to show me what the mast should look like. Frankly they all look a little prebent to my eye and not all that different from mine. So place your bets. The plan we collectively came up with was before spending the money on a new sail I should have my rigger back out to check if there is any prebend as well as look over the system for friction (as you noted above). If I can rule out the mast and friction then that leaves me with the sail. And I would be able to move forward with a purchase knowing I am doing something that will fix the issue. I don't want to buy a new sail prematurely and not solve anything. $1700 is an expensive diagnostic purchase.

It is an older sail so it is certainly possible it has stretched. The one thing that holds me back from coming to this conclusion is that I never had any issue last year. This year it jams 100% of the time when I unfurl by sucking an inner layer out jamming the mast slot. When it is such a binary different between this year and last, it makes me think maybe the rig tuning could have caused the issue or maybe pushed me over the edge with an aging sail. I would have thought a blown sail would have been more of a progressive failure mode.
In any event the rigger is supposed to come back out and take a look. Thanks for the thoughts and advice

 

[russconde]

To try to isolate the issue, go to the mast and try to just pull out the sail by hand (all line clutches released of course). If it pulls out easy it's not the sail or the mast, it's the line controls. If it does not pull out easy it's within the sail/mast complex. I had issues and did this to determine my sail was actually pulling out fine. My problem was all the little friction points along inhaul and outhaul lines. Sailkoted every possible point in the system and made a huge difference.