I'm new to sailing and recently purchased a 77 Hunter 27. I've been looking over the standing rigging and have noticed that it is all very loose. While none of the shrouds or stays are actually sagging, they certainly don't have any kind of significant tension on them. Are there standard rig tuning specs or guidelines for this model, or for boats of this type and size in general? I don't plan on racing her, but I still want to get the best performance possible and I also don't want to over- or undertighten anything. (BTW: I'm replacing the forestay soon and certainly want to make sure that I get the tension and length right when I install it the new one.)
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Hire a rigger or . . . . .
study Brion Toss' web-site and give it a try. I plan to buy Brion's video because my mast is down and I will have your problem next Spring. Link below. Seems that 1) you need to know the exact wire size; then 2) you can go to one of the catalogs(try www.riggingonly.com/wire.htm#WIRE) to get the strength; 3) use a Loos gauge to measure to 15% of that value. So a wire rated at 1000# would be adjusted to 150#. But this is just a starting point to keep the rig taut. Brion says you have to tune it dynamically, under sail in 10-15 knots. Then there's rake and bend to consider. Sounds like witchcraft, but worth it for half a knot.
study Brion Toss' web-site and give it a try. I plan to buy Brion's video because my mast is down and I will have your problem next Spring. Link below. Seems that 1) you need to know the exact wire size; then 2) you can go to one of the catalogs(try www.riggingonly.com/wire.htm#WIRE) to get the strength; 3) use a Loos gauge to measure to 15% of that value. So a wire rated at 1000# would be adjusted to 150#. But this is just a starting point to keep the rig taut. Brion says you have to tune it dynamically, under sail in 10-15 knots. Then there's rake and bend to consider. Sounds like witchcraft, but worth it for half a knot.
...clarification/expansion
I just finished reading virtually every post on this site regarding rig tension, forestay sag, mast bend, mast rake, etc., etc., etc. It's becoming a little clearer, but hasn't completely gelled yet. From what I gather, I should: (1) Loosen the shrouds and adjust the mast rake (fore/aft masthead position w/o bend) using the forestay
I just finished reading virtually every post on this site regarding rig tension, forestay sag, mast bend, mast rake, etc., etc., etc. It's becoming a little clearer, but hasn't completely gelled yet. From what I gather, I should: (1) Loosen the shrouds and adjust the mast rake (fore/aft masthead position w/o bend) using the forestay
Mast
Uh..... I have no idea. I'm 99.99% certain it's the original mast that came with the boat ('77 Hunter 27). I've been up the mast a couple of times to measure this and that and to install a new VHF antenna
Uh..... I have no idea. I'm 99.99% certain it's the original mast that came with the boat ('77 Hunter 27). I've been up the mast a couple of times to measure this and that and to install a new VHF antenna
Mast (more)
By the way, for what it's worth, my rig dimensions do NOT match the ones in the HOW database. My 'I' and 'P' dimensions are about two feet shorter than the ones given. My 'J' is the same. 'E' is supposed to be 9.3' but when North Sails came out to measure for a new main, they spec'd it out as 10'. None of that probably makes any difference to my original questions though...
By the way, for what it's worth, my rig dimensions do NOT match the ones in the HOW database. My 'I' and 'P' dimensions are about two feet shorter than the ones given. My 'J' is the same. 'E' is supposed to be 9.3' but when North Sails came out to measure for a new main, they spec'd it out as 10'. None of that probably makes any difference to my original questions though...
Kenyon is my guess.
My guess would be about 5-7 inches of pre-bend and leave it alone. A big adjustable backstay might help a little but not worth it for crusing. Set the rig tension per Loos guage manual making sure the mast is stright side to side, pre-bend correct and go sailing. Greg S2 9.2C with a 40' Kenyon mast.
My guess would be about 5-7 inches of pre-bend and leave it alone. A big adjustable backstay might help a little but not worth it for crusing. Set the rig tension per Loos guage manual making sure the mast is stright side to side, pre-bend correct and go sailing. Greg S2 9.2C with a 40' Kenyon mast.
Procedure on our '77 h27
We hired an instructor (Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sandusky, OH) on our first week-end with Lady Lillie to run us through safety, tune our rig, and then take us for a day long review of sailing a keel boat. He recommended tensions around 420 for the lowers and 550 for the uppers (that's either side of 10% of the rated strength of our 3/16's stays. First we set the rake with a weight on the main halyard about 7 inches behind the mast at the height of the boom. John Cherubini, Jr. said in a recent post that he remembered 12 inches measured at the deck. The the head and back stays are tightened together to their their tension, by taking the same number of turns on each in steps, and measuring the result with the Loos guage. The top side stays are then positioned by measuring from the main halyard to the plates on both sides to be sure they are the same length (and, therefore, that the mast is centered side to side.) Then both are tightened to their tension. Then the lower stays are adjusted so that the mast is "in column" that is, straight, with no bend side to side, or fore and aft. (Racing rigs may have adjustable backstays to adjust sail shape, but I have never seen this on and h-27. Anyway, the initial set-up should be in column, then adjusted with the the backstay for shaping while under way.) Once the mast is in column, the lower stays are tightened to their tension. Then, it's around one more time to get the tensions right, always tightening opposing stays the same number of turns, and then measuring. That's it. Our mast comes down each year, so I'm getting pretty good at this. It's true that there is no official number for the tension. But the minimum condition is that there is never any sag under any sailing conditions. Although the tension on the downwind stays will decrease, this should never loosen them enough to sag - that's a danger to the rig. David Lady Lillie
We hired an instructor (Carl Romig of Adventure Plus in Sandusky, OH) on our first week-end with Lady Lillie to run us through safety, tune our rig, and then take us for a day long review of sailing a keel boat. He recommended tensions around 420 for the lowers and 550 for the uppers (that's either side of 10% of the rated strength of our 3/16's stays. First we set the rake with a weight on the main halyard about 7 inches behind the mast at the height of the boom. John Cherubini, Jr. said in a recent post that he remembered 12 inches measured at the deck. The the head and back stays are tightened together to their their tension, by taking the same number of turns on each in steps, and measuring the result with the Loos guage. The top side stays are then positioned by measuring from the main halyard to the plates on both sides to be sure they are the same length (and, therefore, that the mast is centered side to side.) Then both are tightened to their tension. Then the lower stays are adjusted so that the mast is "in column" that is, straight, with no bend side to side, or fore and aft. (Racing rigs may have adjustable backstays to adjust sail shape, but I have never seen this on and h-27. Anyway, the initial set-up should be in column, then adjusted with the the backstay for shaping while under way.) Once the mast is in column, the lower stays are tightened to their tension. Then, it's around one more time to get the tensions right, always tightening opposing stays the same number of turns, and then measuring. That's it. Our mast comes down each year, so I'm getting pretty good at this. It's true that there is no official number for the tension. But the minimum condition is that there is never any sag under any sailing conditions. Although the tension on the downwind stays will decrease, this should never loosen them enough to sag - that's a danger to the rig. David Lady Lillie
Why rake?
I'll have a try at this: First, wind actually blows down slightly on the water. I remember reading at a 4 degree angle. So, we rake the mast to get the luff of the mainsail perpendicular to the wind. 4 degrees on an h27 mast is close to John's 12 inches at the deck. So that is the nominal set-up. Second, by moving the center of effort of the mainsail (and headsail for that matter) forward or aft, changing rake changes the balance of the boat. That is more rake moves the sailplan aft and increases weather helm (the tendency to head into the wind, all else being equal, felt as the pull on the tiller when steering from the windward side of the cockpit. Less rake moves the sailplan forward, reducing weather helm. Light weather helm is the target. Light to avoid slowing the boat with too much rudder to counter the weather helm. Weather helm (versus the opposite, lee helm) because the safest behavior of the boat if you lose or let go of the tiller/rudder is to head up into the wind and waves. Note on weather helm: Lady Lillie had serious weather helm when we bought her. The cause was not the rake, but a blow-out main that pulled more sideways than forward from a center of effort moved back on the sail. A new main balanced the boat to light weather helm, and reduced heel by 5 degrees in 10-15 knot winds, while adding 1 to 1.5 knots to our speed. Avoid broaching: a last note on weather helm. Excessive weather helm (especially when coupled with high heeling say over 25 degrees) in a gust of high winds can cause the rudder to stall (lose much of its effectiveness). The result is an extreme heel followed by rapid "rounding up" into the wind, all of this out of control, and very hard on the rig. Finally, I repeat that neither my sailmaker or I can find anything about pre-bend on a Cherubini h27. (The sailmaker is important, since our sails are cut for a straight mast since Doyle, like most lofts, cuts to the standard spec of the rig in their computer files.) The mast should be "in column" and tuned from that only in response to changing wind conditions with an adjustable backstay, usually while racing. Pre-bend is a feature of the standard set-up of the B
I'll have a try at this: First, wind actually blows down slightly on the water. I remember reading at a 4 degree angle. So, we rake the mast to get the luff of the mainsail perpendicular to the wind. 4 degrees on an h27 mast is close to John's 12 inches at the deck. So that is the nominal set-up. Second, by moving the center of effort of the mainsail (and headsail for that matter) forward or aft, changing rake changes the balance of the boat. That is more rake moves the sailplan aft and increases weather helm (the tendency to head into the wind, all else being equal, felt as the pull on the tiller when steering from the windward side of the cockpit. Less rake moves the sailplan forward, reducing weather helm. Light weather helm is the target. Light to avoid slowing the boat with too much rudder to counter the weather helm. Weather helm (versus the opposite, lee helm) because the safest behavior of the boat if you lose or let go of the tiller/rudder is to head up into the wind and waves. Note on weather helm: Lady Lillie had serious weather helm when we bought her. The cause was not the rake, but a blow-out main that pulled more sideways than forward from a center of effort moved back on the sail. A new main balanced the boat to light weather helm, and reduced heel by 5 degrees in 10-15 knot winds, while adding 1 to 1.5 knots to our speed. Avoid broaching: a last note on weather helm. Excessive weather helm (especially when coupled with high heeling say over 25 degrees) in a gust of high winds can cause the rudder to stall (lose much of its effectiveness). The result is an extreme heel followed by rapid "rounding up" into the wind, all of this out of control, and very hard on the rig. Finally, I repeat that neither my sailmaker or I can find anything about pre-bend on a Cherubini h27. (The sailmaker is important, since our sails are cut for a straight mast since Doyle, like most lofts, cuts to the standard spec of the rig in their computer files.) The mast should be "in column" and tuned from that only in response to changing wind conditions with an adjustable backstay, usually while racing. Pre-bend is a feature of the standard set-up of the B
Rake, et al
Thanks! That all makes sense. I'll have a chance to test all that out today and Sunday. Our new main (and genoa) just arrived in the mail
Thanks! That all makes sense. I'll have a chance to test all that out today and Sunday. Our new main (and genoa) just arrived in the mail
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