Reviving the Damper Plate & Engine Mount Discussions

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

So I am the latest to have to tackle this problem. I have the "death rattle" and will be doing this project at the end of the month. This will also be rolled up with changing to a SS shaft, putting in a PSS dripless seal, replacing my cutlass bearing and replacing my motor mounts. I have a couple of questions on this project that I am hoping that some of the C310 owners who have done these repairs can answer.

Question 1 - Which freaking damper plate to use?!

From reading the previous posts on this subject, it seems that the R&D plates are the worst choice. Yes, they are OEM but they are made inferior to the Sachs yet cost more (~$400).

I read that Witzend used the Sachs 1866-50-002 but had to salvage the plate from his old R&D and manufacture a spacer ring. Last report I read he had 100 hours without any problems. Any updates? Cost on this plate was around $70 in 2009.

I also read that rpwillia used the Sachs Damper Plate #10 1866 061 001 and that the bolt holes lined up and he didn't need to manufacture a spacer ring. It just bolted right on. Any updates on how this is working? Cost on this plate was around $180 from older posts.

However when I try to find either Sachs plate for sale, I can't. The old links posted don't work and google searching comes up empty. I emailed a parts supplier posted by Maine Sail before but haven't received a response yet.

At one point in the previous discussion Maine Sail referred to a replacement Universal/Sachs damper plate with a Universal part number of U-299156 that corresponded with the Sachs 1866-050-002. I can find that plate for around $280. But this is listed for the Universal M3-20B.

So, which plate and where to buy it? I feel kinda lost on this one right now.

Question 2 - Is going with OEM engine mounts and adding a spacer plate to the front the right choice?

I have read the past posts on this as well. Also read the info Stu posted on engine mounts and the links to the C34 forum discussions. Since I often use Maine Sail as my filter on these type of decisions and that has always worked for me, I see no reason to change. Based on his past posts I plan to get the OEM mounts from Hansen Marine (~$200 each).

My current engine mounts are adjusted to be near the top of the treads for the front mounts. So I plan to have some plates made at my cousin's machine shop to raise the height of the front motor mounts. I was planning on the plates being 3/4" thick. Should I use aluminum or SS for this? (cost is not a factor because my cousin gives me stuff like this as trade for helping him with his boat) For those of your that added plates, did this work out better? Did you find a need to add them to the back too?

Thanks in advance to any who respond.

Jesse

 

[Maine Sail]

Try searching for ZF3306316002

 

[c130king]

I followed Ray's advice back in June and went with the Sachs damper plate that had the correct holes. It cost me $194. I ordered it and the new ZF10 transmission through a local diesel repair shop. Took about 5 days to come in as I recall.

Both are working great and I am very happy. I am a more conscious now of my idle RPM and bump up the throttle to try and maintain 1200. I can tell a pretty big difference in vibration between using 1200 and the full idle of around 900...especially if standing on the companionway steps.

The only issue when installing was that the ZF10 is a little bigger so my mechanically smart friend that did most of the work had to remove the plastic shear plate between the shaft & transmission couplings.

Good luck.

Would like more info on how your PSS install goes. I have one from the previous owner and am debating installing it in mid-December when I pull Polaris for a few weeks of painting, waxing and other assorted maintenance. We did do a partial replacement of the stuffing box flax and my normal drip when not running has completely disappeared and I have a manageable drip when running at high speed (which I think is ok). So installing the PSS is not critical for me at this time.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[Witzend]

The biggest reason I chose the adapter ring approach was because I could solve 2 problems with one solution. Chances are that the input spline shaft on your tranny is damaged on the leading edges of the spline as mine was. If the fit between the collar on the damper plate and the spline shaft is not spot on, it will eventually eat it up again. By adding the adapter ring it pushed this interface further onto the shaft where there was a clean spline. Also by having the interface closer to the bearing the effect of any run out causing vibration is minimized.
I also could fit the the new assembly onto the shaft and rotate it prior to committing to drilling the final holes which bolts the assembly together (I temporally clamped it together). This allow me to get the run out spot on.
At the time, I researched what the torque rating were from the Sach Damper plates available, and for our engine the 1866-050-002 was the better match. The 1866 061 001 is stiffer, not to say it will not work, but will not provide the best torsional vibration isolation needed to protect the tranny. In my opin, this is primarily reason why the R&D failed in the first place, it is just too stiff.
I purchased mine from Jim at Federal Marine for ~$125.
http://federalmarinetransmissions.com/99901.html

300+ hours and counting no noise or vibration.

Concerning the mounts, I used just 3/4' Marine plywood to chock up my new OEM front mounts. No problems with that as well. BTW by using the OEM mounts I could achieve the needed lateral adjustment not possible with other mounts I considered due to the limited slot width.
When, or if, you can get the bolts out from the imbedded AL plates make sure you use anti-seize, or a good lithium grease on them before you put them back.

If you want to talk send me a PM and I will provide my number.
Good luck with your project.

 

[rpwillia]

Still Happy!

The Sachs Damper Plate #10 1866 061 001 has worked out fine. I got it from a marine supply place up in Seattle called MER Equipment (http://www.merequipment.com/pdfs/Drive-Plate-Brochure-5-22.pdf). Called the guy on the phone and he was pretty helpful. Look on page 6 of the pdf.
Contact Info
MER Equipment 338 W. Nickerson St. • Seattle, WA 98119 • 206.286.1817 • 1.800.777.0714
[FONT=&quot]
I used the MM-Small-65 rubber hardness motor mounts from AV Products as at the time I could not find the OEM mounts. Price was $35.00/each and the M12 height adjuster is $12.00/each.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

To be honest I would not use the OEM ones after using these as they are a lot quieter at idle and at operating ranges perhaps about the same. Very pleased. One other thing to remember is the M12 height adjuster is a bolt that threads down into the mount. One you pull your old mounts, these can be taken in and out without pulling the engine; just unscrew the height adjuster and then you can unbolt and slide the mount out. I did have to make adapter plates, and it was easy with some 1/4" steel from Tractor Supply.

Contact Info is below: [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]Paul Douglass[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]AV Products, Inc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6150 Parkway North Drive - # A[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cumming, GA 30040[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Ph: 678-417-6226[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Fax: 678-417-0660[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]paul@avproductsinc.com[/FONT]

 

[gpd955]

JK...I will also be doing a similar project off season. My Sureseal leaks and I need to remove the shaft to replace it. Since I'm going to remove it I will be replacing the transmission coupling and damper plate, replacing the shaft with the SS Aquamet 22.

Right now I am in the process of PBing the bolts on the coupling (Once a week for the past 3 weeks...I've been patient with that!!) and hopefully they'll be ready to go by next weekend.

I'll keep you updated as I go along and try to photograph the process.

 

[Donnybrook]

Engine mounts. $48.84 ea. DF-2205-2
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/sitesearch.aspx?keyword=BUS%20DF-2205-2&id=BUS%20DF-2205-2

 

[Witzend]

Right now I am in the process of PBing the bolts on the coupling (Once a week for the past 3 weeks...I've been patient with that!!) and hopefully they'll be ready to go by next weekend.

Hey Jack, better start working on those engine mount bolts too, mine were a bugger to get out. The aft port one it the hardest.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Don't know how we got by prior to these forums.

OK, so I have order my parts. I went with the Sachs 1866 061 001 and the OEM motor mounts. I also ordered the Morse cutlass bearing and the PSS dripless. Along with some other parts for this whole project.

The boat comes out of the water on November 24th. I took the week after Thanksgiving off and here is my plan:
1) Cut the shaft between the strut and the shaft log.
2) Remove the coupling from the transmission. Remove shaft and existing stuffing box.
3) Take both sides of the shaft with the prop and coupling still attached to Rose's Marine in Gloucester to have them fit and face a new SS shaft to the coupling and prop.
4) Remove the engine from the mounts and lift the engine out of the way. Place the engine on a temporary stand in the middle of the saloon.
5) Remove the motor mounts and bring them to my cousin's machine shop to have 3/4" SS plates made to co below the front mounts.
6) Remove the transmission and replace the damper plate. It appears I will also have to remove the bell housing to complete this project. Put the engine back together.
7) Replace all hoses that haven't already been replaced. Inspect those already replaced. Rebuild raw water strainer. Put Marlube on thru-hulls.
8) Install new motor mounts.
9) Remove old cutlass bearing and install new one
10) Install new shaft, PSS and transmission coupling. Reinstall prop.
11) Put motor back on motor mounts. Do rough alignment.
12) When back in the water next spring, complete alignment.

Hopefully this goes easy and well. But I don't suspect it will. I am trying to complete all of the above work in about 10 days. I will post an update.

Thanks again.

Jesse

 

[Long Story]

Quick Question: Why are you trashing your prop shaft? None of the repairs your looking at require a new shaft, just a slight length adjustment.

 

[JK_Boston_Catalina310]

The stock shaft is bronze. Mine has some scoring from the stuffing box. The PO never changed the packing, just kept tightening down. So considering the cost of the shaft is only $100 for a SS shaft, it was worth it to me. If I kept the other shaft I would still send it to a machine shop to have the straightness tested and the fit with the coupling checked/adjusted. So that cost is a wash.

 

[rpwillia]

No need to remove the bell housing

Been there, did not do that, and skipped the T-Shirt! Turn the damper plate side ways and it will slide in. So simple it could be dating advice.