I have read several posts referencing the placement of the transmission in reverse while under sail. The reason I think is to avoid drag, I'm not sure. I have always left my H31 in neutral. What do you do? Why? I hear stories of reverse causing issues with transmissions that won't shift after a sail day to neutral unless engine is started, has this happened to you? Thanks in advance for your replies...I really appreciate the learning that I can do here vice at my Marina repair facility.
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Neutral, foward or reverse?
Mike: I believe that the concensus over the last few years has been to put it in reverse IF the prop is turning. If the prop does not turn there is not any aparent advantage. You may want to search the archives and see what you find. Our prop did not turn for several years. About 3-4 year ago we started hearing the prop turning. We now put it in reverse when we hear this. Do you have a fixed prop? Is it 2 or 3 blades? (just curious)
Mike: I believe that the concensus over the last few years has been to put it in reverse IF the prop is turning. If the prop does not turn there is not any aparent advantage. You may want to search the archives and see what you find. Our prop did not turn for several years. About 3-4 year ago we started hearing the prop turning. We now put it in reverse when we hear this. Do you have a fixed prop? Is it 2 or 3 blades? (just curious)
Actually Gordon says:
"The lubrication within the reversing gears used on Yanmar engines is a splash type. The gears are always on the shafts and in mesh and the gears are the ones that make the splash. Hence, lubrication is not a problem if the engine is driving the shafts or if the propeller is. Yanmar says it doesn't matter if you freewheel or shift the gear to reverse to stop the rotation. There is the question of "lubricated wear". If you freewheel, the gears and bearings within the reversing gear are turning, albeit without load. Then there is the shaft packing and the cutless bearing that are wearing. Then comes drag. Some say that there is less when fixed and others say less when spinning. If you can hide the prop blades behind some deadwood, fixed is certainly better. I think I would pop it into reverse while sailing. Then again, I would remove the anemometer from the masthead during the off season." So, the bottom line is do whatever you want! This is what my wife does! <g>
"The lubrication within the reversing gears used on Yanmar engines is a splash type. The gears are always on the shafts and in mesh and the gears are the ones that make the splash. Hence, lubrication is not a problem if the engine is driving the shafts or if the propeller is. Yanmar says it doesn't matter if you freewheel or shift the gear to reverse to stop the rotation. There is the question of "lubricated wear". If you freewheel, the gears and bearings within the reversing gear are turning, albeit without load. Then there is the shaft packing and the cutless bearing that are wearing. Then comes drag. Some say that there is less when fixed and others say less when spinning. If you can hide the prop blades behind some deadwood, fixed is certainly better. I think I would pop it into reverse while sailing. Then again, I would remove the anemometer from the masthead during the off season." So, the bottom line is do whatever you want! This is what my wife does! <g>
Put it in Reverse
According to Yanmar you should sail with the engine in reverse if it's not running. As a rule I was doing this and began having problems with the transmission locking up in reverse if I tried to shift it to neutral before starting the engine. Since Yanmars will start in gear I now start the engine while it's still in reverse and haven't had any problems. By the way, the reason for putting it in gear is to stop the shaft from spinning, cuts down on the wear of the shaft and transmission. I read a study once too that said you could put it in forward or reverse but that there was less wear by putting it in reverse. Hope this answers your question. Rich Hawkins
According to Yanmar you should sail with the engine in reverse if it's not running. As a rule I was doing this and began having problems with the transmission locking up in reverse if I tried to shift it to neutral before starting the engine. Since Yanmars will start in gear I now start the engine while it's still in reverse and haven't had any problems. By the way, the reason for putting it in gear is to stop the shaft from spinning, cuts down on the wear of the shaft and transmission. I read a study once too that said you could put it in forward or reverse but that there was less wear by putting it in reverse. Hope this answers your question. Rich Hawkins
Rich Reverse!
Rich: Where are you getting your information about sailing with the transmission in reverse?
Rich: Where are you getting your information about sailing with the transmission in reverse?
Shifting under load
Steve summed up the debate, but I've read it is very bad to have it in forward, so if you decide to lock the prop the consensus is reverse. It seems you cannot shift out of reverse while under way because of the load on the transmission. Mine won't. In a jam, you can start in reverse and then shift. I don't do it because it doesn't seem like it would be good for the tranny or engine to start under load. If you bear up and stop the boat, you can shift back into neutral before starting.
Steve summed up the debate, but I've read it is very bad to have it in forward, so if you decide to lock the prop the consensus is reverse. It seems you cannot shift out of reverse while under way because of the load on the transmission. Mine won't. In a jam, you can start in reverse and then shift. I don't do it because it doesn't seem like it would be good for the tranny or engine to start under load. If you bear up and stop the boat, you can shift back into neutral before starting.
Sailing in Reverse
It would seem that the consensus is to lock the prop in reverse while sailing. I have an old YSB 12 that freewheels in neutral and always put it in reverse gear. I once heard that if it is put in forward, the water pressure on the prop can actually turn the drive train. ???(I don't know about that one). I do lose about 1/2 knot when locked in reverse but then, I also have a 3-bladed prop. I don't have any trouble getting back to neutral before I crank it over but, just recently while sailing a h410, I couldn't go back to neutral until I turned the key to on. Different models, different works I quess. Another reason I sail in reverse is that I'm always afraid that spinning prop is going to reach out and grab the nearest thing to foul it. i.e. crab trap lines and other bits of junk floating in our waters. Roland S/V Fraulein II
It would seem that the consensus is to lock the prop in reverse while sailing. I have an old YSB 12 that freewheels in neutral and always put it in reverse gear. I once heard that if it is put in forward, the water pressure on the prop can actually turn the drive train. ???(I don't know about that one). I do lose about 1/2 knot when locked in reverse but then, I also have a 3-bladed prop. I don't have any trouble getting back to neutral before I crank it over but, just recently while sailing a h410, I couldn't go back to neutral until I turned the key to on. Different models, different works I quess. Another reason I sail in reverse is that I'm always afraid that spinning prop is going to reach out and grab the nearest thing to foul it. i.e. crab trap lines and other bits of junk floating in our waters. Roland S/V Fraulein II
In my Yanmar Manual
Steve, It's in my Yanmar manual. Also there have been a couple of threads on this site related to the issue. One of them even had a link to a website with the data tables for the study regarding wear and tear in forward vs. reverse. I also have a yanmar mechanic that does all of my engine work. Asked him about it and he told me the same thing.
Steve, It's in my Yanmar manual. Also there have been a couple of threads on this site related to the issue. One of them even had a link to a website with the data tables for the study regarding wear and tear in forward vs. reverse. I also have a yanmar mechanic that does all of my engine work. Asked him about it and he told me the same thing.
Reverse
Mike; I have had my 1984 H31 since new and have always put the engine in reverse when sailin. The prop doesn't spin so wear and tear on the stuffing box,cutlass bearing and transmission are reduced. As this is done when sailing, I have only put it back in neutral after turning into the wind to furl sails and start the engine to motor into a dock or anchorage. In 17 years I have never had a problem. Besides, old salts and the Yanmar manual both state that you should do this. Otherwise, buy a shaft brake if you have room and don't forget that you're using it. Mac Lindsay 1984 H31
Mike; I have had my 1984 H31 since new and have always put the engine in reverse when sailin. The prop doesn't spin so wear and tear on the stuffing box,cutlass bearing and transmission are reduced. As this is done when sailing, I have only put it back in neutral after turning into the wind to furl sails and start the engine to motor into a dock or anchorage. In 17 years I have never had a problem. Besides, old salts and the Yanmar manual both state that you should do this. Otherwise, buy a shaft brake if you have room and don't forget that you're using it. Mac Lindsay 1984 H31
Hay Marc with the '84 H31
I had the same boat but have now sold it to move up. Just wondering what did a 31' cost new? Quite a tribute to the 31' that you've had it all this time.
I had the same boat but have now sold it to move up. Just wondering what did a 31' cost new? Quite a tribute to the 31' that you've had it all this time.
New cost
Don; 1984 H31 Seattle Washington listed selling price was $46,995.00 US, with the January 1984 boat show price of $43,450 US. The Canadian Boat show equivalent at that same time was $69,500 Canadian. Regards, Mac
Don; 1984 H31 Seattle Washington listed selling price was $46,995.00 US, with the January 1984 boat show price of $43,450 US. The Canadian Boat show equivalent at that same time was $69,500 Canadian. Regards, Mac
Wow.
That's what I call holding a value. At 17 years old, these boat still sell for 50% or more of their original cost. Hope I have the same fortune with my 37.5 Regards.
That's what I call holding a value. At 17 years old, these boat still sell for 50% or more of their original cost. Hope I have the same fortune with my 37.5 Regards.
Shift to feathering prop and....
.... never have to ask the question about forward or reverse. A boat with a feathering prop will: 1. sail faster, probably around 0.4 to 0.5 knots; 2. cause no wear and tear on the transmission; 3. allow the boat to track a higher angle to weather by several degrees; 4. probably cause the skipper to sail more and motor less which saves wear and tear on the engine (but the down-side is the sails get used more, or is that an up-side?); 5. and you'll never have to ask this question again!!
.... never have to ask the question about forward or reverse. A boat with a feathering prop will: 1. sail faster, probably around 0.4 to 0.5 knots; 2. cause no wear and tear on the transmission; 3. allow the boat to track a higher angle to weather by several degrees; 4. probably cause the skipper to sail more and motor less which saves wear and tear on the engine (but the down-side is the sails get used more, or is that an up-side?); 5. and you'll never have to ask this question again!!
contrition contribution
A year or two ago there was one of these recurring discussions about proper transmission shifter location while sailing with the *GM yanmar transmissions and I first posted that it didn't make any difference only to find out after studying the manual that I was dead wrong and then posted an article in the photo forum explaining why. (Search the photo formum with "tranny") Basically with the transmission in reverse, the design of the transmission positively locks the shaft while in forward, the shifter springs push the shifter cone and the engaging surface but the absence of the servo mechanism can allow continual slippage between the cone clutch and mating shifting surface. (Try turning the shaft by hand in forward and then reverse to see what I mean.) In neutral the large gears which pick up and distribute oil from the sump do not turn (they turn only with the engine) and thus there is a possibility of lack of oil if neutral is used say in crossing an ocean. I don't believe that neutral would do any harm in day sailing and might help in racing.
A year or two ago there was one of these recurring discussions about proper transmission shifter location while sailing with the *GM yanmar transmissions and I first posted that it didn't make any difference only to find out after studying the manual that I was dead wrong and then posted an article in the photo forum explaining why. (Search the photo formum with "tranny") Basically with the transmission in reverse, the design of the transmission positively locks the shaft while in forward, the shifter springs push the shifter cone and the engaging surface but the absence of the servo mechanism can allow continual slippage between the cone clutch and mating shifting surface. (Try turning the shaft by hand in forward and then reverse to see what I mean.) In neutral the large gears which pick up and distribute oil from the sump do not turn (they turn only with the engine) and thus there is a possibility of lack of oil if neutral is used say in crossing an ocean. I don't believe that neutral would do any harm in day sailing and might help in racing.
Paid $40k for mine.
I bought my 1985 H'31 new in April of 1986. I paid $40,000 which included an instrument package. I upgraded the package but that was it. Plus sales tax (of course)
I bought my 1985 H'31 new in April of 1986. I paid $40,000 which included an instrument package. I upgraded the package but that was it. Plus sales tax (of course)
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