Phil Herring: Phil, why don't you add two additional boxes to the existing ones for "Writing a response to this article" and "Post a new topic". One would require posters and responders to at least tell us their boat mfgr, hull length, and year built e.g. "C-36 1998" etc. The second would require specific details relating to the problem such as engine mfgr, engine model, sail rig (fractional etc) jib size (furled 150)and so on. We get posters who say things such as "My engine won't stay at 2200 rpms", and we don't have a clue what type of engine, i.e. whether it is inboard or outboard, what HP, what MFGR, what model, gas, diesel, you get the idea!!!! People are so obsessed with their problems that they forget to pass on enough info to allow others to begin to understand their problems and offer solutions. The comment; "My boat won't motor as fast as it would last year" is really no use to anyone when we know absolutely nothing about the posters boat or his engine. Furthermore it just takes up valuable space in your forum. We really need the information requested above in every post and response!!! It can't be that hard!!! Bill Sweet
Requiring more info from posters and responders
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More info
Hi Bill, A couple of thoughts on that... There probably isn't a form anywhere, short of an in-depth survey, that could prompt all the data needed to solve the wide variety of issues we see posted here. And at the other end of the spectrum, we don't really want to make someone go through all that if they have a question about, say, weather fax or Bahamas customs. Also, if memory serves me, we do ask for that info on posts that are brand-specific. I don't believe we ask for as much in the Ask All Sailors shared forum. Part of this is a sensitivity that, for example, Macgregor owners don't want their forum filled with questions about Hunters. But, I'm certainly open to change and interested to hear what others think. Anyone want to add their opinion on this?
Hi Bill, A couple of thoughts on that... There probably isn't a form anywhere, short of an in-depth survey, that could prompt all the data needed to solve the wide variety of issues we see posted here. And at the other end of the spectrum, we don't really want to make someone go through all that if they have a question about, say, weather fax or Bahamas customs. Also, if memory serves me, we do ask for that info on posts that are brand-specific. I don't believe we ask for as much in the Ask All Sailors shared forum. Part of this is a sensitivity that, for example, Macgregor owners don't want their forum filled with questions about Hunters. But, I'm certainly open to change and interested to hear what others think. Anyone want to add their opinion on this?
My thoughts
The point that wjssr raises is a valid one. I have more than a few times either had to ask more questions in order to try and respond or just skip it. Having said that, I would hate having to 'fill-in' (no pun) more information each time I post. Given the choice, I would rather ask for more info from those that don't supply enough rather than have to go through the exercise each and every time.
The point that wjssr raises is a valid one. I have more than a few times either had to ask more questions in order to try and respond or just skip it. Having said that, I would hate having to 'fill-in' (no pun) more information each time I post. Given the choice, I would rather ask for more info from those that don't supply enough rather than have to go through the exercise each and every time.
Requireing more information
Phil: You and Alan have a point about not requiring more info. Perhaps the thing to do is to spell out in a short paragraph in both sites, that responders are not mindreaders and the poster/responder has to provide enough detail to enable readers to understabd the problem, or the fix offered. Good grief we get some amazingly sparse posts, and my oigee board is wearing out from overuse.
Phil: You and Alan have a point about not requiring more info. Perhaps the thing to do is to spell out in a short paragraph in both sites, that responders are not mindreaders and the poster/responder has to provide enough detail to enable readers to understabd the problem, or the fix offered. Good grief we get some amazingly sparse posts, and my oigee board is wearing out from overuse.
I don't get it?
This site is to be fun and informative. While I agree it would be helpful to have more detail to give the best informative response I doubt that even all the details would be enough to answer some questions. If you are not happy with the question, skip it. Why bitch or spend the time belittling someones question? Yes, I have seen people belitte others on this site. Having said that if your looking for my pet peeve it would be the questions like, Where can I get sails? or , Where can I get running rigging? While I encourage shopping locally for certain items I certainly see where these questions deserve a dope slap. HELLO, this site is also a business. Anyway, I will leave that to you Phil, its your site and your place to discipline {or not} as you see fit. I enjoy this site and have enjoyed the occasional purchase to help support it. You asked for my opinion and if I were to summarize I would say, If you don't enjoy answering a question, SKIP IT. sincerely, Jack { Phil, If you want to add something, add a spell check}
This site is to be fun and informative. While I agree it would be helpful to have more detail to give the best informative response I doubt that even all the details would be enough to answer some questions. If you are not happy with the question, skip it. Why bitch or spend the time belittling someones question? Yes, I have seen people belitte others on this site. Having said that if your looking for my pet peeve it would be the questions like, Where can I get sails? or , Where can I get running rigging? While I encourage shopping locally for certain items I certainly see where these questions deserve a dope slap. HELLO, this site is also a business. Anyway, I will leave that to you Phil, its your site and your place to discipline {or not} as you see fit. I enjoy this site and have enjoyed the occasional purchase to help support it. You asked for my opinion and if I were to summarize I would say, If you don't enjoy answering a question, SKIP IT. sincerely, Jack { Phil, If you want to add something, add a spell check}
Good points all around...
But I don't think adding more boxes is the answer. There could be a paragraph below the "Add this topin to my Thread Tracker" about making sure enough info is submitted to generate a good, knowledgeable response. For New Topics, I think this statement, "Messages in Ask All Sailors must be general interest and not specific to one sailboat brand or model" might be misconstrude as to NOT add specific information. Maybe reword it to stated add sufficient information to help generate a good, knowledgeable, discussion. My 2Ω's worth.
But I don't think adding more boxes is the answer. There could be a paragraph below the "Add this topin to my Thread Tracker" about making sure enough info is submitted to generate a good, knowledgeable response. For New Topics, I think this statement, "Messages in Ask All Sailors must be general interest and not specific to one sailboat brand or model" might be misconstrude as to NOT add specific information. Maybe reword it to stated add sufficient information to help generate a good, knowledgeable, discussion. My 2Ω's worth.
leave it alone
Come on!!!! Some people deserve the merit Darwin Award and just don't know it. They haven't killed themselves, yet, so it is only a merit Award. That is what makes this site so much fun. That people who are so dumb, actually do things like sail! They hold jobs, recreate, and write the lamest topics around. Kind of like the message i once got from a co-foreman. We were suppose to leave messages about the shift...what broke, what didn't, etc. so that the next shift wouldn't waste time, or would get something fixed ...or wouldn't kill someone by accident. So this other guy couldn't write, or formulate thoughts. He tried once by writing "Tom". That's it. The whole message. I took it to the next level. As I recall...it started out iwth "Tom. That must be some sort of code, like Tora, Tora, Tora...and it went on for three pages. THAT one made it to corporate and the owner of MTD products/Shiloh Industries. That letter made everyone laugh. And so to do the people who put in stuff like..."How do I cleat a line?" Or, "my ropes that I tie the boat to the dock are regular clothsline. My boat is a 56' Goliath and the lines snapped in the heavy winds of 6 knots, which we all know, is 8.6 times the speed of miles per hour. So why did the lines snap? I am clueless?" If you take away my daily humor, where will I go? What will I do? LEAVE IT ALONE. MOVE ON. And send more pics of Steph.
Come on!!!! Some people deserve the merit Darwin Award and just don't know it. They haven't killed themselves, yet, so it is only a merit Award. That is what makes this site so much fun. That people who are so dumb, actually do things like sail! They hold jobs, recreate, and write the lamest topics around. Kind of like the message i once got from a co-foreman. We were suppose to leave messages about the shift...what broke, what didn't, etc. so that the next shift wouldn't waste time, or would get something fixed ...or wouldn't kill someone by accident. So this other guy couldn't write, or formulate thoughts. He tried once by writing "Tom". That's it. The whole message. I took it to the next level. As I recall...it started out iwth "Tom. That must be some sort of code, like Tora, Tora, Tora...and it went on for three pages. THAT one made it to corporate and the owner of MTD products/Shiloh Industries. That letter made everyone laugh. And so to do the people who put in stuff like..."How do I cleat a line?" Or, "my ropes that I tie the boat to the dock are regular clothsline. My boat is a 56' Goliath and the lines snapped in the heavy winds of 6 knots, which we all know, is 8.6 times the speed of miles per hour. So why did the lines snap? I am clueless?" If you take away my daily humor, where will I go? What will I do? LEAVE IT ALONE. MOVE ON. And send more pics of Steph.
I love the posts that start "how tall is the
mast on my boat?" "I have had this boat for four years now. any help will be welcome." questions like that make my day.
My response is that I can't help because if you lay it down and measure it then you just get the length, and you need to know how tall it is. There is spell check in the google tool bar.
mast on my boat?" "I have had this boat for four years now. any help will be welcome." questions like that make my day.
My response is that I can't help because if you lay it down and measure it then you just get the length, and you need to know how tall it is. There is spell check in the google tool bar.Question
I am new to this forum, thought this might be a good place to ask how long is a piece of string.
I am new to this forum, thought this might be a good place to ask how long is a piece of string.
Lipstick on a Pig
More fields will just make posting more tedius, and the stupid will fill them in wrong anyway. Leave it alone, recognize the clueless are always with us, and respond to them with patience, maturity, grace, and gentle guidance. Remember that you're an ambassador for the sport. Unless you're impatient, immature, condemning, brusque, and unhelpful. Then just expect to remain frustrated.
More fields will just make posting more tedius, and the stupid will fill them in wrong anyway. Leave it alone, recognize the clueless are always with us, and respond to them with patience, maturity, grace, and gentle guidance. Remember that you're an ambassador for the sport. Unless you're impatient, immature, condemning, brusque, and unhelpful. Then just expect to remain frustrated.
Good Questions Make the Site More Useful
"Time is Money" is a common phrase, and while it might not always be = money, it is valuable and shouldn't be wasted. Poorly worded questions (we're talking about original posts here) waste everybodys time. The poster doesn't get good answers (garbage in > garbage out), those who reply wind up wasteing time because they're guessing what the poster is after, and those who don't respond because they don't want to waste time with a dumb question are also wasteing time because the post and replies take up space and have to be sorted through. Then all this stuff fills up the archive space in storage. A good post (just got through reading this good one about replacing hot water heater hoses at http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?fno=4&uid=F&sku=2006272115757.83)goes into reasonable detail what the person has, what the problem is, what he tried, an option he's considering, and so forth. Consequently, the replies have been detailed and on message. If a poster is seeking help with a problem the least they can do is put a little effort into their post and provide some details about their problem. Asking for a little effort up-front should be the price of admission for being able to use the resources here. After all, the reply-ers time is worth something (even though the repliers time is donated, gratis, pro bono, don't get paid or nothin') and writing a reply where one has to try and guess about those details that were left out of the post takes a lot of time and effort. Shure, the reply-er can just pass on that inconsiderate post but what good does that do? The poster looses and all the other readers loose. It's a loose-loose situation. There are a things that can be done to lead the poster toward providing better posts: 1) Links to examples of good posts (can be actual or ficticous) 2) Fill-in-the-blanks 3) List of things that are desirable to be included (sort of like the newspaper Who, How, What, Where, etc. kind of thing, 4) Check boxes, 5) etc., including some mix of the above. Another good post example was asking about "Major Refit Experiences" and the first Reply had 12 good items. Because the post was reasonably detailed the reply was too. Also, note the Replier was from Okinawa! For those with poor Posts I'm generally passing on them. By the way, while doing some house cleaning I recently came across a paper where I printed out a post from around ~1997, + or -! Oh yes, I saved it again - it's here somewhere.
"Time is Money" is a common phrase, and while it might not always be = money, it is valuable and shouldn't be wasted. Poorly worded questions (we're talking about original posts here) waste everybodys time. The poster doesn't get good answers (garbage in > garbage out), those who reply wind up wasteing time because they're guessing what the poster is after, and those who don't respond because they don't want to waste time with a dumb question are also wasteing time because the post and replies take up space and have to be sorted through. Then all this stuff fills up the archive space in storage. A good post (just got through reading this good one about replacing hot water heater hoses at http://www.sailboatowners.com/forums/pviewall.tpl?fno=4&uid=F&sku=2006272115757.83)goes into reasonable detail what the person has, what the problem is, what he tried, an option he's considering, and so forth. Consequently, the replies have been detailed and on message. If a poster is seeking help with a problem the least they can do is put a little effort into their post and provide some details about their problem. Asking for a little effort up-front should be the price of admission for being able to use the resources here. After all, the reply-ers time is worth something (even though the repliers time is donated, gratis, pro bono, don't get paid or nothin') and writing a reply where one has to try and guess about those details that were left out of the post takes a lot of time and effort. Shure, the reply-er can just pass on that inconsiderate post but what good does that do? The poster looses and all the other readers loose. It's a loose-loose situation. There are a things that can be done to lead the poster toward providing better posts: 1) Links to examples of good posts (can be actual or ficticous) 2) Fill-in-the-blanks 3) List of things that are desirable to be included (sort of like the newspaper Who, How, What, Where, etc. kind of thing, 4) Check boxes, 5) etc., including some mix of the above. Another good post example was asking about "Major Refit Experiences" and the first Reply had 12 good items. Because the post was reasonably detailed the reply was too. Also, note the Replier was from Okinawa! For those with poor Posts I'm generally passing on them. By the way, while doing some house cleaning I recently came across a paper where I printed out a post from around ~1997, + or -! Oh yes, I saved it again - it's here somewhere.
Lighten up
I think some of us are taking this way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun! So what if a poster (?) didn't formulate a question properly? As I see it, you either ask for more details or ignore the question. Mone of us is obligated to anwer any and every question. Besides, think how boring these forums would be if every problem or question could be solved with a single response. THANK YOU Phil Herring, for providing a place for this virtual yacht club. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need any more fields to fill in or a spell-checker. Peter H23 "Raven"
I think some of us are taking this way too seriously. It's supposed to be fun! So what if a poster (?) didn't formulate a question properly? As I see it, you either ask for more details or ignore the question. Mone of us is obligated to anwer any and every question. Besides, think how boring these forums would be if every problem or question could be solved with a single response. THANK YOU Phil Herring, for providing a place for this virtual yacht club. As far as I'm concerned, we don't need any more fields to fill in or a spell-checker. Peter H23 "Raven"
Lighten up
Apparently the poster WJSSR feels pressured to answer all the questions yet he didnt give us a resume of all his expertise. Without that info, how do we know that he knows what he is talking about? For instance.....Formal education, experience, licensure and any other qualifications that may be appropriate for his responses. Phil, please include additional boxes for resume's.
Apparently the poster WJSSR feels pressured to answer all the questions yet he didnt give us a resume of all his expertise. Without that info, how do we know that he knows what he is talking about? For instance.....Formal education, experience, licensure and any other qualifications that may be appropriate for his responses. Phil, please include additional boxes for resume's.
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