Replacing the Head

J

j.hunter9999

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Oct 30, 2019
574
This years biggish project (in addition to the half a dozen or so smaller projects) is to replace the head and tank. I removed the tank, head, and surrounding structures today. It wasn't quite as disgusting as I expected. My first idea, which is actually Nigel Calder's idea, is to reinstall the head in the same, original location (starboard side) with the tank outboard and above it as much as possible. This is in accordance with Nigel Calder's Boat Owner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual, page 544, Fig 12-29 (for those of us with the book).

In recognition of the power of communal knowledge, I'd like to solicit ideas from anyone willing to offer them. Primarily, I'm seeking alternatives, ideas and things to consider. If anyone is cruising or living aboard their Vega, or has in the past, what size holding tank do you recommend? Has anyone attempted this installation before? If so, what challenges did you face? Any ideas on where to find or have a tank made? Or suggestions for making the mock up?

I also considered moving the head and tank to the V-berth. The water tank, which appears to be pretty new, is at the forward part of the V. My idea was to put the new holding tank above the Water tank (separated by some type of shelf. Then mount the head aft of the tanks. This would allow for a bit more headroom and keep everything on the centerline. Since I am converting the starboard berth to a double, it might be a viable option.

Has anyone move the head to the V Berth? Or gone with an alternate installation?

Please send your ideas! I can use all the help I can get...which explains Calder's book.

Best all!

Jack
Bella - V2620
 
J

j.hunter9999

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Oct 30, 2019
574
Peter,

This is remarkably similar to Calder's design. I am going to chalk that up to parallel evolution...two societies evolving to discover the same processes and tools without interacting.

12 imperial gallons is about 14 US gallons. Where did you order your tank? And did you save the design (if you had it custom made)? Do you live aboard or cruise extensively? Has the tank size been a limiting factor at all?

Thanks,

Jack
Bella - V2620
 
G

groundhogyh

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May 30, 2006
1,075
I also used the KISS system and find it to work well.Pics are in the vega group under the folder "Good Things"
rb
 
J

j.hunter9999

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Oct 30, 2019
574
Thanks for the pics. Where did you order your tank from? Did you use 1/2 inch or 3/4 inch plywood? What model is the head?

Thanks,

Jack
Bella - V2620
 
G

groundhogyh

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May 30, 2006
1,075
Hi Jack,I assume you are asking about my masterpiece - the Groundhog 5000.. I got the head locally made here in the baltimore area for about $500. I forget what the thickness of the plywood is. You mean supporting the holding tank? Dont think it's a critical dimension, so 3/4 would be fine. It was marine ply, and I coated it in epoxy.The head is a jabsco manual pump. Cheap with the idea that if it malfunctioned significantly, I could just get another one for about $100.Roy
 
J

j.hunter9999

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Oct 30, 2019
574
Roy,
Thanks for the information. If you can remember the dimensions, material and supplier for the tank, I'd be interested in getting something similar.
Thanks,
Jack
 
B

bobnlesafloat

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Oct 31, 2019
163
We've a holding tank on Spring Fever connected to the existing Jabsco head: I installed a Plastic tank approximately 38 inches long under the starboard side of the forecabin vee berth, 10" wide and trapezoidal in cross section - the front face is 9 inches deep, the outboard side about 4 inches deep and supported on dense foam blocks glued to the hull and where feasible, a timber framework and tightly secured using aerosol expanding foam - FIT TIMBER FRAMING OVER THE TOP TO STRAP IT DOWN TOO - we met a boat that was knocked-down off SW Portugal, the (full) holding tank coming adrift adrift and breaking through the bunk base to disperse its contents liberally around their forepeak, there was still an odour aboard when we came across them again ten-months later. - Our tank abuts the water tank at the front and extended into the hanging locker, so I fitted a false floor into that to cover the rear of the tank and the pipework. I fitted a
longer outlet hose from the Jabsco pump, routed it through the locker beneath the wash basin and connected to the stern of the tank, beside that connection is a 1 1/2 inch breather hose, which comes vertically through the false floor in the hanging locker and exits the hull just below the toe rail. The tank's outlet pipe connects at the bottom on the inboard side, about 2/3 of the way astern and goes via a Whale diaphram pump before connecting to the original jabsco outlet sea-cock. For simplicity and due to space restrictions, there are no diverter valves, so everything goes into the tank before discharge at sea. As a free bonus with the Vega, because the washbasin discharges into the bowl of the head, it means that even if you are dried out alongside or on beaching legs, you can still use the heads by flushing with fresh water.

If I repeated the installation I would consider a couple of variations: -

1. With the tank sited as it is, a couple of inches above the seacock, I don't think the outlet pump was strictly necessary, I've seen a similar installation (not a Vega) which discharges the effluent purely by gravity.
2. The headsail sheet has a tendency to occassionally snag on the vent outlet fitting - its a light winds only problem, so annoying not dangerous - so I'd either relocate or connect to a plain plastic skin fitting rather than the projecting WC Vent fitting.
3. Whilst it could be difficult (space restriction - though I believe you could get away with a much smaller than the 'recommended' 1 1/2 inch hose) i would route the vent hose to the boats transom, rather than side of the hull; we spend a lot of time in sunny climes and at anchor, so on lght-wind (most) evenings, whenever anyone uses the head, the vented methane drifts gently through the cockpit on its way astern - almost every boat's set up the same, but I've a friend who recently re-routed his to greatly improve matters.

In conclusion, whilst it probably isn't feasible anyway on a Vega, I would give a warning: DO NOT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCES (as an acquaintance dis this spring) install a holding tank discharge point above the waterline. Whilst it might well "avoid an uneccesary below-the-waterline opening", the downside is that the first few pump-outs will stain the hull side, at which point you will decide that you need to fit an 'extension-pipe' into the mouth of the skin fitting, so keeping the effluent flow clear of your hull. Sadly that's when things will deteriorate badly; I can report (the photos didn't do it justice) that whilst discharging approximately 45 gallons of effluent into a nine-foot Rib that's being towed alongside won't come even close to sinking it, it does make a bit of a mess, particularly after said effluent has sloshed around inside the rib for about six hours on a hot day.

Bob carlisle
AV1776
 
B

bobnlesafloat

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Oct 31, 2019
163
The tank we fitted is about ten or eleven UK Gallons - Whilst anything bigger encroached into 'good' locker space, I would not recommend fitting anything smaller; with two aboard it's comfortably sized only for a couple of days.
 
G

groundhogyh

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May 30, 2006
1,075
Hi Jack,
I got the tank fabricated at the following company.http://www.capitalplasticsco.com/ There are many companies that can fabricate these, maybe closer to your home.It was made of polyethelyne, which is the best material to make a holding tank.BUT...If I could do it again, I would use stainless, because of mechanical durability.You see, there are two types of polyethelyne tanks. Welded (which I have) and molded, which you find at holding tank companies like Ronco. The mold costs like $700 to make, then the tanks will be like $100-200 each. But the welded ones are suseptible to breaking at the weld joints. The molded ones are very strong and are the best performer.I will try to post the drawing of my holding tank to the vega website.Roy
 
P

pjacobs55

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Oct 30, 2019
1,459
Jack,
I made the tank from 1/2" plywood and epoxy ... next time I'd use aluminum.
It fits the contour of the hull to maximize volume. My longest cruising time is about 30 days, usually with a few marina stops. I find, with 2 of us, we can go several days easily, so the tank size hasn't been a limiting factor.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'
 
J

j.hunter9999

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Oct 30, 2019
574
Thanks, Peter. Based on your input and from Roy, I'm going to go with a polyeth tank, maybe stainless. I'll use Roy's dimensions, plus my own mockup. Thanks for pointing me to the KISS installation. I'll go with that, too. Best to use that which has a proven track record!

Jack
Bella - V2620
 
T

tim_klynn

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Feb 12, 2008
337
I know these guys at Boulder Boat Works, they do great poly welding. I was talking with the owner the other day and he was asking me for ideas to expand their product line (basically keep their guys busy when slow). It seems like if you made a mock up of the tank in cardboard w/match marks, they could fab the tank for you.
Here is a link to their site: Boulder Boat Works | World's Finest Drift Boats - Own The River
I would guess that if they had an order for several tanks, they could make up templates and do a mini production run for less $$. -Tim
 
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