Replacing jib sheet jam cleats w/ cams, cross sheeting.

[Coppertone]

I have an '87 new design Cat 22. I find that in heavy air I prefer to cleat my jib sheet on the windward side, since that's where I sit. I am going to replace the jam cleats (that don't hold very well, but allow cross sheeting) with cam cleats. Am I crazy to install them at an angle that works for cross sheeting, because that would have the jaws in the opposite direction from how they should be for cleating on the same side with the active winch? Any suggestions that would allow for both? Should I put 2 cleats on each side, one facing the winch and one facing the opposite winch? I am using Harken 150s.

 

[Gene Neill]

Ah, the never ending New Design sheet-cleating dilemma. It is a curse! Original boats are designed SO much better in that area. I went so far as to install self tailing winches, and I'm still far from happy.

Anyhoo ... I myself would not like the lines cutting my cockpit in half. But if that thought doesn't concern you, I can see how cross sheeting might be a viable solution.

@$tingy Sailor 's blog has a great article on the subject ...

 

[THECUSCUS]

My boat is a Macgregor 25, but is similar . I have cam cleats mounted as seen in the picture. The jib sheet comes off the winch and to the cleat on the opposite side. Works very well, and is easy for the helmsman to reach if single handing (see utube video)

cam cleats for jib sheets

• THECUSCUS
• Jun 14, 2012

 

[$tingy Sailor]

Here's a link to my blog article about cross sheeting. The feature picture shows the sheet cleated in a Barton Wincher, but the animated GIF (also below) shows the sheets in the stock cam cleats. It includes a short video showing my tacking sequence with cross sheeting. On my '81 C-22, the cam cleat positions work well for both normal and cross sheeting.

 

[JohnShannon]

I don't understand, in the cross sheeting isn't the "active" winch the one on the windward side? What normally would have been the active winch is just used to redirect the jib sheet to the high side. So in that case how does the jib sheet know that it is cross sheeted or not? It is just exiting a winch and going to a cleat.

 

[DialedN_87]

I started doing cross sheeting after visiting $tingy's website. But the jam cleats work just fine for me. One wrap around the back end and pull tight through the front and I don't even need to complete the wrap. Holds every time. (87 New Model)
I've thought about replacing the jam cleat on the cabin top to a double cam cleat for halyards and boom vang, but don't find a real need for the jib sheets.

I don't understand, in the cross sheeting isn't the "active" winch the one on the windward side? What normally would have been the active winch is just used to redirect the jib sheet to the high side. So in that case how does the jib sheet know that it is cross sheeted or not? It is just exiting a winch and going to a cleat.

Can't speak for how others do it, but I do a single wrap around leeward winch, then cross over and double wrap windward side. Then tie off to the jam clean directly aft of the windward winch. pulls just like a triple wrap on one winch.

 

[Coppertone]

All of my sailboats before the C22 were performance oriented scows, most recently a Melges 17. You always cross sheet those unless you really like swimming. I have only had the C22 out 3 times so far, the last was in a 17 kt. breeze. Under those circumstances it became a little hairy to hang out on the low side to futz around with the jib sheet. In those conditions, nobody but me was trying to move aft of the jib sheet anyway, so the cross sheet wasn't an issue.
The jib sheet that came with the boat is an old, fat, furry line that jams well, but is clumsy, heavy and very worn. In lighter conditions, the jib doesn't tack well because it has to drag that hawser across the bow. I ordered a new 3/8 Samson trophy braid that is light and handles nicely, but as it turns out, doesn't jam well at all in the stock cleats. That's why I'm looking into cam cleats, which is all my scows ever used.
Still in light winds when the Cat22 is basically a floating picnic table, I'd like to be able to cleat the jib on the lee side to keep the cockpit clear.

 

[Coppertone]

One more thought. Has anyone tried rigging the jib sheet in an endless configuration, that is, tying the ends of the sheet to the jib clew? Thus you never have the bitter end running out to the jib car at an inopportune moment? That is how the M 17 is rigged, but then, the M 17 doesn't have a cabin to access. I may just try it to see how inconvenient it would be.

 

[JRacer]

Here is where we mounted the cam cleats on our J24. Line wrapped around the winch then went over the edge of the cockpit and downward into the cam mounted on the side of the cockpit. If we were cross sheeting, we typically took it from the turning block on the genoa track straight to the cabintop winch so the crew on the rail could use that to trim and no cleating. Cross sheeting to the primary winch really didn't gain anything as the trimmer had to be in the cockpit or pretty near (off the rail) to operate the primary winch.

 

[greg_m]

One more thought. Has anyone tried rigging the jib sheet in an endless configuration, that is, tying the ends of the sheet to the jib clew? Thus you never have the bitter end running out to the jib car at an inopportune moment? That is how the M 17 is rigged, but then, the M 17 doesn't have a cabin to access. I may just try it to see how inconvenient it would be.

Out on False Bay you can go from next to zero wind to in excess of 20 knots and more in gusts. So on the L26 not only do we cross sheet to windward side but we also run the "endless" jib sheet method. You just have to be heeled over way more than comfortably once with a leeward tied off jib sheet trailing in the water behind you to realise how much more comfortable it is to have things to hand on the high side! Obviously bringing the head to windward to ease the situation only needs to get you back winded ONCE with the jib sheet far away from your crew or yourself who are now panicking on the low side!

A side note on racing dinghies the fairlead and cam cleats are in one unit so an endless type of setup for the jib sheet is really the only way to go... especially when single handing a racing dinghy in strong winds!