Hi everyone - I think that most of the plumbing on my Pearson 303 is original and in need of attention. I've read Peggie's book and many, many posts to try to rid my boat of odors this summer and haven't been able to do so completely. I am going to replace all associated sanitation components this fall and want to run my plan by all of you. Can you check out the attached diagram and give your feedback? Thanks in advance!
Replacing head this fall
- Thread starter MikeK2B
- Start date
Looks workable, Mike..
I am partial to going directly to holding tank from head, eliminating the vented loop in the head discharge, and some piping and the "Y" valve. .. then from the tank to a "T" as you show, one side to the deck pump out and the other to a hand pump then to a high vented loop, then overboard. everything goes to tank all the time.. you'd have the hand pump out capability if in a place where you could..
My boat came that way from Hunter and I have been happy with that scheme since I've owned her (1991). Simple.. Through hull for hand pump can mostly stay closed decreases amount of holdup in the piping..
I am partial to going directly to holding tank from head, eliminating the vented loop in the head discharge, and some piping and the "Y" valve. .. then from the tank to a "T" as you show, one side to the deck pump out and the other to a hand pump then to a high vented loop, then overboard. everything goes to tank all the time.. you'd have the hand pump out capability if in a place where you could..
My boat came that way from Hunter and I have been happy with that scheme since I've owned her (1991). Simple.. Through hull for hand pump can mostly stay closed decreases amount of holdup in the piping..
I can't count the number of people I've heard from who've replaced their entire sanitation system--toilet, tank, plumbing, pumps--trying to get rid of what they thought was "head" odor...but wasn't. So before you make an expensive mistake, let's talk. Send me an email (EMAIL please, not a PM) and we'll go from there.
The bilge!!! My bilge is a shallow bilge under most of the cabin sole. I took a toilet brush and lashed it to a collapsable boat hook and fed it through the sole access hole which is about a foot square. Scrubbed until clean and the kept extending the hook and scrubbing. The back of the bilge runs into a deep bilge at the companion way ladder. So i put a piece of "stuff" that's used in house gutters across at the dropoff which filtered all the loose bilge dirt etc and kept it from dropping into the deep bilge when i hosed everything out. No more odors. Also check all hoses that are not sanitation hoses. My shower drain hose was clear plastic and 35 yrs old. My fuel fill and vent lines were not fuel rated and were basically engine exhaust hoses. The vent was some other black hose.. Replaced them when i replaced the tank. Sink drain hoses...Also, how often do think you are going to need the hand pump? I currently have no way to empty a tank at sea and have had no reason to. Having said that, we are extending our cruising next summer to the Broughtons (north east of Vancouver Is) and maybe further north. Im looking at mounting a pump on a board with some hose and just use the deck fitting. Throw both ends over and pump when done and store in a sealable plastic container in the lazarette...right now, im trying to figure what the discharge rqmts are for that area and it looks like there are none.....
The head's sink drain can be teed into the head's water intake, between the vented loop and the bowl.... i.e. the sink drains into the bowl. You're showing what appears to be the sink drain teed into the intake line BEFORE the msd pump...and another overboard discharge line with Y valve??????? this is unnecessary and will probably cause problems with air in the intake line... rendering the pump unworkable...
I have my above water line galley sink drain on a separate discharge line through it's own seacock that can be easily reached beneath the counter. I've seen some sink drain systems that drain through the shower's gray water sump system.
I'll defer to Peggy on the number of vented loops you need.. (My holding tank has no overboard discharge line...just deck pump out)... on my boat I have two... one between intake pump and bowl... the other between discharge pump and Y valve. Similar to what you see in the Jabsco diagram.
I have my above water line galley sink drain on a separate discharge line through it's own seacock that can be easily reached beneath the counter. I've seen some sink drain systems that drain through the shower's gray water sump system.
I'll defer to Peggy on the number of vented loops you need.. (My holding tank has no overboard discharge line...just deck pump out)... on my boat I have two... one between intake pump and bowl... the other between discharge pump and Y valve. Similar to what you see in the Jabsco diagram.
The head's sink drain can be teed into the head's water intake, between the vented loop and the bowl.... i.e. the sink drains into the bowl.
Nooo...bad idea, Joe! Gray water from the sink is full of soap scum, tooth paste, whatever you washed off you...murderous to the toilet pump. I think you may have confused this with teeing the head intake line into the sink drain line, which does work. He actually has it almost right...just a few too many y-valves and vented loops in his system. We're getting together by phone tomorrow evening to get him all sorted out.
Here's how it works: the tee has to be below the waterline as close to the sink drain seacock as possible. When the drain thru-hull is open, the toilet pulls in sea water to flush, same as it would from its own dedicated intake thru-hull. At the end of the weekend, after you've closed all your thru-hulls, fill the sink with CLEAN fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the thru-hull is closed the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the WHOLE system...intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line...whereas, water poured into the bowl, just goes out the discharge...doesn't go through the rest of the system.
Nooo...bad idea, Joe! Gray water from the sink is full of soap scum, tooth paste, whatever you washed off you...murderous to the toilet pump. I think you may have confused this with teeing the head intake line into the sink drain line, which does work. He actually has it almost right...just a few too many y-valves and vented loops in his system. We're getting together by phone tomorrow evening to get him all sorted out.
Here's how it works: the tee has to be below the waterline as close to the sink drain seacock as possible. When the drain thru-hull is open, the toilet pulls in sea water to flush, same as it would from its own dedicated intake thru-hull. At the end of the weekend, after you've closed all your thru-hulls, fill the sink with CLEAN fresh water and flush the toilet. Because the thru-hull is closed the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing the sea water out of the WHOLE system...intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the discharge line...whereas, water poured into the bowl, just goes out the discharge...doesn't go through the rest of the system.
My "T" is below the waterline and i have to plug the sink. In fact the pump will pop the plug...the head inlet hose does go above the waterline about 6" and then back down below. Are u saying if the whole of everything is kept below the waterline, a sink plug is not needed? Hmmmm
No...I'm saying it MAY not be needed. On some boats, leaving a sink drain thru-hull open while underway can turn the sink into a fountain whether or not the head intake is teed into the drain. On some the toilet can't prime if you don't plug the sink, on others it does so without a problem (which may be a function of how close to the seacock the tee is). So plug the sink if you need to, don't if you don't.
If the plug is popping out, something is wrong and you are pushing air into the intake line. The head pump should do nothing but suck. In it's function, that is
Maybe not, Ron. If the plug is popping out when the boat is underway and the toilet is NOT being flushed, the toilet isn't pushing any air into the drain line...it's because water is being pushed up the open thru-hull by the pressure of the water against the moving thru-hull. It would happen whether the head intake was teed into the line or not.
That's not an uncommon phenomenon..and it doesn't have to happen every time the boat is underway on that tack. It just depends on sea conditions, speed through the water and other factors that require more knowledge of hydro-physics than I have.
If, otoh, it's only happening when the toilet is flushed whether the boat is moving or at rest, then yes...somehow the toilet is pushing instead of pulling. I've never heard of that happening before though...I don't even know how it's possible.
That's not an uncommon phenomenon..and it doesn't have to happen every time the boat is underway on that tack. It just depends on sea conditions, speed through the water and other factors that require more knowledge of hydro-physics than I have.
If, otoh, it's only happening when the toilet is flushed whether the boat is moving or at rest, then yes...somehow the toilet is pushing instead of pulling. I've never heard of that happening before though...I don't even know how it's possible.
Yep... Sitting static in the water, it will pop the plug...pain in the butt...i think on the downward stroke. Its a PHII....
The popping plug would be a "water hammer" effect.. The column of water in the hose gets to moving pretty quickly and when the pump hits end of stroke, all the water in the hose wants to keep going.. the moving water between the sink and the thru-hull finds the air space between the plug and the Tee and runs up in there, compressing the air and popping the plug.. It is a very short phenomenon. To prove, pump very slowly and it won't pop the plug.. then when you switch to "Dry" you should be able to pump as quickly as ya need to .. Blame Newton and inertia!
I think Kloudie got it. Last night i was thinking in terms of length of tubing from the drain to T which is only 13 inches which is not much air to compress. Pump slowly and it seems to work. Also, plug is a rather hard white rubber from Ace...