Replacing a Jabsco with a Raritan PHII

[cymeyer]

Hi Peggie, have never asked you for advice. Have read many threads on this subject.
I have purchased a PHII to replace my manual Jabsco toilet. I am tired of pouring money into the Jabsco.

When I do this, do I need anything other than a drill to drill the new holes to mount the PHII? I think all the hoses should line up OK and the diameters are the same...
What am I missing?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Missing? Nothing. Those are lag bolts, there are no nuts below them.

 

[thomas.dargan]

Missing? Nothing. Those are lag bolts, there are no nuts below them.

Just did it! Good idea. ITT Jabsco did not pass float test. Will sell my marine grade hole mover, if you need it, at half price.

Tom in New Rochelle.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Should be easy...

I have purchased a PHII to replace my manual Jabsco toilet. I am tired of pouring money into the Jabsco.When I do this, do I need anything other than a drill to drill the new holes to mount the PHII? I think all the hoses should line up OK and the diameters are the same...
What am I missing?

Be sure to read ALL the installation instructions BEFORE you begin!!

Did you remember to buy the vented loop for the intake? (See instructions).

You should be able to use at least one, if not two, of the existing mounting holes...and btw, all toilets mount using lag bolts, so there are never any nuts to deal with.

The flush water intake fitting is on the front of the PH II pump...it's on the back of the Jabsco...so your head intake hose MIGHT not be long enough...you might have to buy a new 3/4" piece of hose.

However, this might be a good time to reroute your head intake line to tee it into the head sink drain. (See previous conversations about this in the HM forum).

And you might want to read this thread before you start...could save you a bit of aggravation.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=719885#post719885

 

[cymeyer]

Thanks, Peggie

I did read the instructions. I am assuming that the vented loop is to get the inlet higher than the water line. I did not buy any extra hose, but I will.

Not sure I understood what you meant by putting a 'tee' in the sink drain. Not sure what that does or how to do it. I will see if I can find one of the threads where this is explained.

Thanks!

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I did read the instructions. I am assuming that the vented loop is to get the inlet higher than the water line. I did not buy any extra hose, but I will.

It needs to be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL...which on most sailboats puts it about 3' above the toilet.

Not sure I understood what you meant by putting a 'tee' in the sink drain. Not sure what that does or how to do it. I will see if I can find one of the threads where this is explained. Thanks!

Search for "intake odor".

 

[cymeyer]

Re: Should be easy...

Thanks for your reply, Peggie.
I am having trouble understanding how to put in a vented loop, or even if I need one. I do not discharge overboard since we live in Michigan. My Beneteau 321 does not have one now.
I am not really sure how to put the loop between pump and intake without it looking like a mess behind the toilet....
Should I just buy an extra 5 feet of 3/4" tube and make a large loop under the sink on the intake line?
I have read many of the posts on this and not sure how necessary it is.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

All below-waterline toilets need INTAKE vented loop

It has nothing to do with overboard discharge, it breaks the siphon in the flush water INTAKE line started by priming the toilet pump. It also keeps the bowl from filling up with water and overflowing if the toilet is left in the "wet" mode. It's the most common cause of boats sinking in their slips.

Even though a loop in the toilet DISCHARGE line isn't necessary if you're only flushing into the holding tank, a loop can be very useful if it's an uphill run to the tank...'cuz if it's mounted immediately after the toilet, higher than the tank, the toilet only has to push bowl contents over the top of the loop...gravity will get it the rest of the way to the tank. A loop in the discharge line can also prevent waste in the tank from running back into the toilet when the boat is heeled.

You can't put either one under the sink...that's not high enough...loops MUST be at least 6-8" above waterline AT ANY ANGLE OF HEEL...which is about 3' above the toilet. So they have to be mounted on the bulkhead. It'll prob'ly--to you anyway--look like a mess behind and above the toilet. (See attached photo...the small one is the intake loop, the large one is the discharge line) But it's a BOAT...it's not just a floating condo! Condo's don't need protection from sinking...boats do! If decor is that important to you, you can always cover the loops with a nice teak or mahogany box...or, if there's a hanging locker behind the toilet, you can run the hoses through the bulkhead and put 'em in there. Just be sure that the loops remain accessible for service--cleaning and/or replacement of air valve.

 

[alexco38]

Intake vent loop

Hi Peggy,

According to the Jabsco document, the only vent loop is between the hand pump and the bowl.

If there is a vent between the intake thruhull and the pump the suction from the pump will only draw in air. I believe the vent loop closes on pressure and opens on suction.

I am a little confused.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Follow the Jabsco directions. Peggie was referring to the intake line between the pump and the bowl. As you said, NOT between the seacock and the pump.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

If I've posted it once, I've said it 100 times...

The intake vented loop MUST go between the pump and the bowl, as shown in the installation instructions for EVERY manual toilet!

See attached photo...which is the bottom part of the installation shown in the photo above. In that particular installation, there is also a vented loop in the discharge line. However, vented loops in the toilet discharge may or may not be needed...their location depends on what IS needed in a particular installation.

 

[cymeyer]

Raritan was a disaster for me....

Tried to install the PHII on our Beneteau 321 today. A disaster... Anyone who says you can reroute the water intake or the discharge is drinking something.... Didn't work for me. After trying to get the hoses to fit, the new toilet fell on the floor and the new bowl broke. I tried to put the old bowl on and fit with the new Raritan plumbing, but could not get it to fit. I am going to throw away all the Raritan parts and just rebuild my JABSCO. I am never going to try that again. I am glad I did, but what a waste of 4 hours and $350....

Hi Peggie, have never asked you for advice. Have read many threads on this subject.
I have purchased a PHII to replace my manual Jabsco toilet. I am tired of pouring money into the Jabsco.

When I do this, do I need anything other than a drill to drill the new holes to mount the PHII? I think all the hoses should line up OK and the diameters are the same...
What am I missing?

 

[KD3PC]

not sure that any porcelain/china toilet bowl won't break if it falls...nor will part A of Vendor Z fit with part B of Vendor X....in just about any boat product...

Kind of hard on Raritan don't ya think...??

 

[FastOlson]

"Operator Error" ?

Any time you change toilet brands or styles, the old hoses are going to need some changing or rerouting. If you drop a thing on a hard surface and break it, that's not the fault of the part, whether it's a Raritan or a Jabsco.

Opinion: the "standard" Par/Brydon/Jabsco low-end toilet is a poorly engineered potty and has been for decades. It is the one always on sale at a big mark down, and there's a reason.

I rebuilt one of those Par heads every other year for a decade on our prior boat. Present boat came with a PH2 that has lasted 15 years with no rebuilds.

The Raritan PH2 is far superior.

L

 

[woodster]

Tried to install the PHII on our Beneteau 321 today. A disaster... Anyone who says you can reroute the water intake or the discharge is drinking something.... Didn't work for me. After trying to get the hoses to fit, the new toilet fell on the floor and the new bowl broke. I tried to put the old bowl on and fit with the new Raritan plumbing, but could not get it to fit. I am going to throw away all the Raritan parts and just rebuild my JABSCO. I am never going to try that again. I am glad I did, but what a waste of 4 hours and $350....

if you like i have bowl that fits your set up if you want it you may have it ......just pm me and let me know .......or you may call raritan and tell them you delima and they may be able to help you .....nothing beats a try but a failure ...you may also want to put a moveing pad down where you are working just incase....

regards

woody

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Oh dear...

I can't imagine why anyone would try to connect hoses to a pump BEFORE mounting the base, pump and bowl...but apparently that's what you did....'cuz there's just no other way the bowl could have fallen and broken.

Connecting hoses is the LAST step! If you find out that you need to replace 'em, it's no big deal to do that.

You've also made a very good case for, "it's prob'ly a very good idea to read the instructions BEFORE all else fails!" Apparently you didn't read 'em at all...'cuz if you had, not only would you have known to install everything else before connecting the hoses, but you'd have seen the drawing that clearly shows the location of intake fitting on the PH II.

In fact, it's obvious you haven't even read the advice you got here...'cuz if you read the 4th post--my first reply--in this thread, you'll see that I TOLD you that at least one of your hoses--intake hose--may not be long enough and also gave you a link to another thread that addresses another possible problem.

I can't help people who refuse to help themselves!

 

[cymeyer]

Not quite true, Peggy

I didn't connect any of the hoses. was just trying to figure out how to position the waste exit to best fit the sewage hose. Never even got the PHII close to being mounted. I bought long enough intake hose to create the vented loop which I didn't have. I just don't think there was enough space to mount this despite my many measurements.

I can't imagine why anyone would try to connect hoses to a pump BEFORE mounting the base, pump and bowl...but apparently that's what you did....'cuz there's just no other way the bowl could have fallen and broken.

Connecting hoses is the LAST step! If you find out that you need to replace 'em, it's no big deal to do that.

You've also made a very good case for, "it's prob'ly a very good idea to read the instructions BEFORE all else fails!" Apparently you didn't read 'em at all...'cuz if you had, not only would you have known to install everything else before connecting the hoses, but you'd have seen the drawing that clearly shows the location of intake fitting on the PH II.

In fact, it's obvious you haven't even read the advice you got here...'cuz if you read the 4th post--my first reply--in this thread, you'll see that I TOLD you that at least one of your hoses--intake hose--may not be long enough and also gave you a link to another thread that addresses another possible problem.

I can't help people who refuse to help themselves!

 

[Stu Jackson]

I just don't think there was enough space to mount this despite my many measurements.

OK, I understand.

So, then, how does this get to be a rant against Raritan? That's what we don't understand. What did Raritan do to make you drop your new china and not make it fit?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Only one way you could have broken the bowl, then...

I didn't connect any of the hoses. was just trying to figure out how to position the waste exit to best fit the sewage hose. Never even got the PHII close to being mounted. I bought long enough intake hose to create the vented loop which I didn't have. I just don't think there was enough space to mount this despite my many measurements.

The intake and discharge hoses connect to the pump, not the bowl...the bowl shouldn't have been anywhere near the pump and base until they'd been installed. So the only way you could have broken bowl trying to figure out how to connect the hoses was if you mounted the bowl on the base before you installed the base and pump. Which you would not have done IF you'd read the instructions--which, btw, do include the dimensions!

Fwiw, the PHC fits in the same space as the Jabsco..so it does fit!

 

[cymeyer]

Beg to differ, Peggie...

I took the bowl off and tried to see if I could fit the base and it would not fit. I know I am not the best plumber, but I am done trying to get the best toilet.... This job is much harder than all of the threads seemed to indicate.

The intake and discharge hoses connect to the pump, not the bowl...the bowl shouldn't have been anywhere near the pump and base until they'd been installed. So the only way you could have broken bowl trying to figure out how to connect the hoses was if you mounted the bowl on the base before you installed the base and pump. Which you would not have done IF you'd read the instructions--which, btw, do include the dimensions!

Fwiw, the PHC fits in the same space as the Jabsco..so it does fit!