I'm new at this so forgive me if my terminology isn't correct, but... The boat I recently purchased has a mansfield head. The electric waste pump went out on the previous owner so he replaced it with a manual pump. When I flip on the breaker for the head the switch doesn't light up and I cannot power up the macerator for "treat and hold". I'm thinking part of the circuit was broke when the pump was removed. Eventually I'd like to get a new electric pump in there and take the manual pump and make it into a manual bilge, but in the meantime, is there a way to get power? The plug that went to the electric pump is accessible and if I remember correctly has just a red and black wire. Can I complete the circuit by inserting a wire to cross the plug (connect the red to the black)? I don't want to try this as if I'm wrong I feel I could cause some damage. Thanks, Brent
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DON'T DO IT!
Sorry to shout but do not connect the two, at the least you will trip the breaker, and it could be alot worse. If you plan to do your own electric work get a good book (someone else will recommend one better than I can) and get an experienced friend to help you the first time. I have never heard of this brand of head, I'll leave Peggy to make a recommendation, however i love my SeaEra electric head Russell
Sorry to shout but do not connect the two, at the least you will trip the breaker, and it could be alot worse. If you plan to do your own electric work get a good book (someone else will recommend one better than I can) and get an experienced friend to help you the first time. I have never heard of this brand of head, I'll leave Peggy to make a recommendation, however i love my SeaEra electric head Russell
I don't think yr Mansfield contraption is a toilet
Any device that ever was properly connected to any "treat and discharge/treat and hold" circuitry would be a Mansfield TDX--a VERY obsolete (at least 20 years old) device that the toilet flushes into--a combination holding tank/Type I MSD...the forerunner of the SeaLand TDX, later renamed the SanX, and discontinued altogether last year because it was the most environmentally UNfriendly device (requires the use of a formaldehyde based witches brew called TDX) on the market. Then again, you could have an owner-modified Rube Goldberg system that bears no resemblance to anything that was ever actually in production. So describe for me exactly what's in the head--what it looks like, how works--or is allegedly supposed to, and what any plumbing coming out of it goes to. Meanwhile, don't mess with any wiring!
Any device that ever was properly connected to any "treat and discharge/treat and hold" circuitry would be a Mansfield TDX--a VERY obsolete (at least 20 years old) device that the toilet flushes into--a combination holding tank/Type I MSD...the forerunner of the SeaLand TDX, later renamed the SanX, and discontinued altogether last year because it was the most environmentally UNfriendly device (requires the use of a formaldehyde based witches brew called TDX) on the market. Then again, you could have an owner-modified Rube Goldberg system that bears no resemblance to anything that was ever actually in production. So describe for me exactly what's in the head--what it looks like, how works--or is allegedly supposed to, and what any plumbing coming out of it goes to. Meanwhile, don't mess with any wiring!
What it is...
Hey Peggy, Yeah, my terminology is bad. What I was trying to describe is the holding tank, not the toilet, but I think I've got the outdated Mansfield holding tank you describe. The previous owner did tell me that it is designed for TDX but to use porta-potty treatment instead as it is less foul. In any case, I'll try to describe my setup, but I'm new to the boat and this is off memory, so here goes... The toilet is a manual pump flush, which is plumbed to a Y-valve that directs the goodies down the line (or if it is turned directs goodies from the holding tank out of the boat, but can't be turned for direct discharge). Past the Y-valve their is another Y-valve by the holding tank that directs the goodies into the tank. If both valves are turned, I can then direct whatever was in the holding tank out through the hull using the manual pump (where the electric pump used to be). The holding tank itself has a green wire on top of it (I think it's green, maybe black) and appears to have several compartments. Close to where the holding tank is is where the manual pump is and next to the manual pump is an empty 2.5-4L jug of TDX that has a couple tubes coming out of the lid. I was a bit skeptical about pumping out waste, but the owner assured me it was fine if a treatment like the porta-potty treatment was added. I don't want to pump out anything that wouldn't be fine so please let me know your opinion. Also, should I put the treatment in the TDX container or flush it through the head or add it directly to the holding tank? Thanks, Brent
Hey Peggy, Yeah, my terminology is bad. What I was trying to describe is the holding tank, not the toilet, but I think I've got the outdated Mansfield holding tank you describe. The previous owner did tell me that it is designed for TDX but to use porta-potty treatment instead as it is less foul. In any case, I'll try to describe my setup, but I'm new to the boat and this is off memory, so here goes... The toilet is a manual pump flush, which is plumbed to a Y-valve that directs the goodies down the line (or if it is turned directs goodies from the holding tank out of the boat, but can't be turned for direct discharge). Past the Y-valve their is another Y-valve by the holding tank that directs the goodies into the tank. If both valves are turned, I can then direct whatever was in the holding tank out through the hull using the manual pump (where the electric pump used to be). The holding tank itself has a green wire on top of it (I think it's green, maybe black) and appears to have several compartments. Close to where the holding tank is is where the manual pump is and next to the manual pump is an empty 2.5-4L jug of TDX that has a couple tubes coming out of the lid. I was a bit skeptical about pumping out waste, but the owner assured me it was fine if a treatment like the porta-potty treatment was added. I don't want to pump out anything that wouldn't be fine so please let me know your opinion. Also, should I put the treatment in the TDX container or flush it through the head or add it directly to the holding tank? Thanks, Brent
Oh yeah...
It does have the "Treat and Hold / Normal Use / Treat and Discharge" switch and has a light that says do not flush that I'm guessing is supposed to light up while the 'treatment' is occuring.
It does have the "Treat and Hold / Normal Use / Treat and Discharge" switch and has a light that says do not flush that I'm guessing is supposed to light up while the 'treatment' is occuring.
Picture of head
I do have a picture of my head saved on this computer so it kind of shows the switches back on the wall. Don't know if this helps at all, but thought I'd include it anyway.
I do have a picture of my head saved on this computer so it kind of shows the switches back on the wall. Don't know if this helps at all, but thought I'd include it anyway.
Attachments
The PO was wrong...
It's NOT legal to dump it overboard unless it's used as it was designed be used...and that means using ONLY TDX, and ONLY as directed. Here's how it's supposed to work: The tank, which has a macerator inside it, holds 9 gallons. Waste goes into it, the same as it would into any other holding tank. It has a tank level indicator that lets you know how much is in it--that light panel is separate from the "treat, hold" etc panel. As you've noticed, there's a holder for a gallon jug of TDX...the wires are connected to a pump that automatically injects a pint of TDX into the tank when the "treat/hold" or treat/discharge" switch is activated, then starts the macerator inside the tank. That macerator runs for 20 minutes...then, if it's wired correctly, in the "treat/discharge" mode the overboard discharge pump kicks on to dump the tank...in the "treat/hold" mode, it just shuts down. As soon as the overboard discharge pump has emptied the tank, the pump automatically puts another pint of TDX into the tank (iow, "treat" uses a quart of it--one pint at the end of each treatment cycle, a second one at the beginning of each one. So unless ALL the following is true--1. the macerator inside the tank is working, 2. the pump that puts TDX in the tank is working, 3. the chemical is TDX, and 4. the system is working exactly as I described above--it is NOT legal to dump the tank inside the "3 mile limit." SeaLand bought Mansfield in 1984, so anything with the Mansfield brand name on it has to be at LEAST 20 years old. No parts have been available for anything bearing the Mansfield brand name for more than 10 years...so there's no way to get it working again the way it's supposed to...so for all practical purposes, all you really have is a 9 gallon holding tank that can only be emptied by pumpout within 3 miles of the whole US coastline, a bunch of useless jury-rigged plumbing, and some equally using wiring that, from your description of it, is most likely a fire waiting to start. So in light of all that, coupled with the fact that TDX costs about $20/gal and only treats 4 tankfuls/gal, IMO the smartest thing you can do is pull it out and replace it with either a plain ol' holding tank that can either be pumped out or dumped at sea, or a Lectra/San, which doesn't use ANY chemicals, but creates chlorine by charging the ions in salt water with electrical current. I'd also replace the toilet and all the sanitation hoses...'cuz I doubt if they're in any better shape than the TDX system.
It's NOT legal to dump it overboard unless it's used as it was designed be used...and that means using ONLY TDX, and ONLY as directed. Here's how it's supposed to work: The tank, which has a macerator inside it, holds 9 gallons. Waste goes into it, the same as it would into any other holding tank. It has a tank level indicator that lets you know how much is in it--that light panel is separate from the "treat, hold" etc panel. As you've noticed, there's a holder for a gallon jug of TDX...the wires are connected to a pump that automatically injects a pint of TDX into the tank when the "treat/hold" or treat/discharge" switch is activated, then starts the macerator inside the tank. That macerator runs for 20 minutes...then, if it's wired correctly, in the "treat/discharge" mode the overboard discharge pump kicks on to dump the tank...in the "treat/hold" mode, it just shuts down. As soon as the overboard discharge pump has emptied the tank, the pump automatically puts another pint of TDX into the tank (iow, "treat" uses a quart of it--one pint at the end of each treatment cycle, a second one at the beginning of each one. So unless ALL the following is true--1. the macerator inside the tank is working, 2. the pump that puts TDX in the tank is working, 3. the chemical is TDX, and 4. the system is working exactly as I described above--it is NOT legal to dump the tank inside the "3 mile limit." SeaLand bought Mansfield in 1984, so anything with the Mansfield brand name on it has to be at LEAST 20 years old. No parts have been available for anything bearing the Mansfield brand name for more than 10 years...so there's no way to get it working again the way it's supposed to...so for all practical purposes, all you really have is a 9 gallon holding tank that can only be emptied by pumpout within 3 miles of the whole US coastline, a bunch of useless jury-rigged plumbing, and some equally using wiring that, from your description of it, is most likely a fire waiting to start. So in light of all that, coupled with the fact that TDX costs about $20/gal and only treats 4 tankfuls/gal, IMO the smartest thing you can do is pull it out and replace it with either a plain ol' holding tank that can either be pumped out or dumped at sea, or a Lectra/San, which doesn't use ANY chemicals, but creates chlorine by charging the ions in salt water with electrical current. I'd also replace the toilet and all the sanitation hoses...'cuz I doubt if they're in any better shape than the TDX system.
Thanks!
I think I'll just pump out at the marina pump out station in the mean time, but eventually I like the idea of that Lectra/san tank. I know the previous owner replumbed the head and holding tank so that should be alright and I'll cap off that plug to prevent any electrical fires. Thanks Peggy! -Brent
I think I'll just pump out at the marina pump out station in the mean time, but eventually I like the idea of that Lectra/san tank. I know the previous owner replumbed the head and holding tank so that should be alright and I'll cap off that plug to prevent any electrical fires. Thanks Peggy! -Brent
Lectra/San doesn't hold anything...
It's a flow-through device that treats and discharges a flush at a time. Check out all the specs for it on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com so you'll know before you buy it exactly how it works, how much power it consumes and everything else you need to know BEFORE buying it. Meanwhile, I'm afraid you're stuck with a very small holding tank that your toilet fill up very quickly, and no choice but to pump it out every couple of days.
It's a flow-through device that treats and discharges a flush at a time. Check out all the specs for it on the Raritan website at http://www.raritaneng.com so you'll know before you buy it exactly how it works, how much power it consumes and everything else you need to know BEFORE buying it. Meanwhile, I'm afraid you're stuck with a very small holding tank that your toilet fill up very quickly, and no choice but to pump it out every couple of days.
Letra San Unit
Brent we removed our letra san unit and installed a larger holding tank......Not sure of the restrictions as to where you are but the Chesapeake bay is a zero discharge area. So even if the letra san did its netralizing job we still would not be able to pump overboard. good Luck. Rob
Brent we removed our letra san unit and installed a larger holding tank......Not sure of the restrictions as to where you are but the Chesapeake bay is a zero discharge area. So even if the letra san did its netralizing job we still would not be able to pump overboard. good Luck. Rob
Yo Rob bad info on Chesapeake Bay
This last time I checked there was only one place on the bay that was restricted and that was Herring Bay, which is south of Annapolis. I got this from the Maryland Marine Police. Jim S/V Java
This last time I checked there was only one place on the bay that was restricted and that was Herring Bay, which is south of Annapolis. I got this from the Maryland Marine Police. Jim S/V Java
Found the link for No Discharge Zones
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html The coastal bays refers to the bays on the coast around Ocean City, Rehoboth. Jim
http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html The coastal bays refers to the bays on the coast around Ocean City, Rehoboth. Jim
Chesapeake Bay is NOT "no discharge."
Type I and II MSDs are legal everywhere on the Bay except for the two very small areas shown in the link Jim provided. It's a very common misconception among boat owners that a prohibition against discharging RAW waste directly overboard from the toilet means the same thing as "no discharge." Many boat owners aren't even aware that onboard treatment devices exist...they believe their only option is a holding tank. In fact, there are very few true "no discharge" coastal waters. RI, a good portion of MA waters...and then none of any size--only a few small harbors and marinas--on the whole east coast till you get to Key West. You should have asked BEFORE you removed the Lectra/San...because a) there was no reason to do so, and b) onboard treatment is a MUCH sounder ecological solution to waste than holding tanks. All you did was spend money you didn't have to and trade in a device that needs almost no maintenance for the constant hassle of maintaining a tank.
Type I and II MSDs are legal everywhere on the Bay except for the two very small areas shown in the link Jim provided. It's a very common misconception among boat owners that a prohibition against discharging RAW waste directly overboard from the toilet means the same thing as "no discharge." Many boat owners aren't even aware that onboard treatment devices exist...they believe their only option is a holding tank. In fact, there are very few true "no discharge" coastal waters. RI, a good portion of MA waters...and then none of any size--only a few small harbors and marinas--on the whole east coast till you get to Key West. You should have asked BEFORE you removed the Lectra/San...because a) there was no reason to do so, and b) onboard treatment is a MUCH sounder ecological solution to waste than holding tanks. All you did was spend money you didn't have to and trade in a device that needs almost no maintenance for the constant hassle of maintaining a tank.
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