I am finally getting around to getting my compasses fixed. diaphragms developed cracks and leaked all the oil out. now the question of what to refill with. compass repair shop sells oil at $14.50/32 oz and $9.50/16 oz. to refill both i would need 24 bucks worth. at the local drug store mineral oil is approx $7 bucks/qt. is there something special about the oil they sell for compass oil or is it just mineral oil repackaged with a much bigger mark up? S/V Que Pasa?
refilling a compass after repair, What oil?
- Thread starter filthy liberal scum
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Mineral Oil
I've used just regular mineral oil from the drug store before and was happy with the results.
I've used just regular mineral oil from the drug store before and was happy with the results.
Don't use mineral oil...
If it's a Ritchie compass! Straight from the Ritchie web site: From 1960-2001, ALL Ritchie compasses were filled with odorless mineral spirits! Not mineral oil!!!!! Ritchie now uses a fluid called Isopar L® which is basically very highly refined and purified mineral spirits made by Exxon-Mobil corp.. It is supposedly virtually identical in properties but claims some added benefits over odorless mineral spirits. They don't actually say what "added benefits" so I'm guessing it's just more margin for Ritchie and Exxon. Odorless mineral spirits and Isopar L can be mixed and used together. Mineral oil, and or, JandJ Baby Oil and mineral spirits should not be used together. If you own a Ritchie compass you should not use mineral oil.. Some older, very older, Danforth Constellation series compasses used Mineral Oil but they too switched to odorless mineral spirits. Odorless Mineral Spirits is CHEAP !!!!
If it's a Ritchie compass! Straight from the Ritchie web site: From 1960-2001, ALL Ritchie compasses were filled with odorless mineral spirits! Not mineral oil!!!!! Ritchie now uses a fluid called Isopar L® which is basically very highly refined and purified mineral spirits made by Exxon-Mobil corp.. It is supposedly virtually identical in properties but claims some added benefits over odorless mineral spirits. They don't actually say what "added benefits" so I'm guessing it's just more margin for Ritchie and Exxon. Odorless mineral spirits and Isopar L can be mixed and used together. Mineral oil, and or, JandJ Baby Oil and mineral spirits should not be used together. If you own a Ritchie compass you should not use mineral oil.. Some older, very older, Danforth Constellation series compasses used Mineral Oil but they too switched to odorless mineral spirits. Odorless Mineral Spirits is CHEAP !!!!
I think that if you
have gone to the trouble and expense of having compasses (how many do you have?)repaired, they must be very old, expensive, and loved compasses to start with. I would use the best compass oil I could find. While I have used and been satisfied with Ritchie Compass Fluid (see below) in the past, I would get an oil recommendation from whomever repaired your compasses. FWIW,the bottle of Ritchie Compass Fluid (SH-0154)that I have states that it is "Aliphatic Hydrocarbons," whatever they are...
have gone to the trouble and expense of having compasses (how many do you have?)repaired, they must be very old, expensive, and loved compasses to start with. I would use the best compass oil I could find. While I have used and been satisfied with Ritchie Compass Fluid (see below) in the past, I would get an oil recommendation from whomever repaired your compasses. FWIW,the bottle of Ritchie Compass Fluid (SH-0154)that I have states that it is "Aliphatic Hydrocarbons," whatever they are...
You can get oderless mineral spirits...
...at Lowes and Home Depot. The gallon is $12, you can get it by the quart. Jack
...at Lowes and Home Depot. The gallon is $12, you can get it by the quart. Jack
I did'nt have them repaired!
I have two rule inds gemini's that are bulkhead mounted. the diaphragms cracked and i replaced them myself. yes they are sorta old. they are expensive to replace about $175 each. if i were to replace them i then have to try to find compasses that have the same mounting hole size. I do know that they arn't filled with mineral spirits. mineral spirits and mineral oil are drastically different critters. s/v que pasa?
I have two rule inds gemini's that are bulkhead mounted. the diaphragms cracked and i replaced them myself. yes they are sorta old. they are expensive to replace about $175 each. if i were to replace them i then have to try to find compasses that have the same mounting hole size. I do know that they arn't filled with mineral spirits. mineral spirits and mineral oil are drastically different critters. s/v que pasa?
- Jul 24, 2006
- 628
compass repair
hi, not to change subject-but. The very large binnacle compass on the "free boat" has some major cracks on the bubble lens-but still works. Can this compass be repaired? Hve been looking for replacement on ebay, but nothing so far as large as this compass. Can I purchase the lens and do it myself? I like saving money anyway that is reasonable. Its on the 33 morgan OI, but i don't know the manufacturer. Going down to work on the boat today and will check. Patrick
hi, not to change subject-but. The very large binnacle compass on the "free boat" has some major cracks on the bubble lens-but still works. Can this compass be repaired? Hve been looking for replacement on ebay, but nothing so far as large as this compass. Can I purchase the lens and do it myself? I like saving money anyway that is reasonable. Its on the 33 morgan OI, but i don't know the manufacturer. Going down to work on the boat today and will check. Patrick
Pay now or pay latter.
All mineral oils are not the same. Some will eat rather quickly through seals and diaphragms. Are being overcharged for this formulated oil? The answer is yes, but the alternative of having to repeat the job sooner than latter is no bargain.
All mineral oils are not the same. Some will eat rather quickly through seals and diaphragms. Are being overcharged for this formulated oil? The answer is yes, but the alternative of having to repeat the job sooner than latter is no bargain.
Rule compass oil..
Is only sold by the gallon from Rule. They told me it's the same exact stuff Ritchie uses and it's what they have been using for years! Ritchie uses Isopar L now and used to use Odorless Mineral Spirits! Perhaps your diaphragms failed because someone filled them with Mineral Oil instead of odorless mineral spirits.. I called them for you to get a real answer. So Ritchie and Rule use the same product! Isopar L or Odorless Mineral Spirits hope this helps. When in doubt, and the thread turns into a use this or NO use this, the manufacturer usually comes through.. You never stated what the compass was in the OP so I guessed the most common, being Ritchie..
Is only sold by the gallon from Rule. They told me it's the same exact stuff Ritchie uses and it's what they have been using for years! Ritchie uses Isopar L now and used to use Odorless Mineral Spirits! Perhaps your diaphragms failed because someone filled them with Mineral Oil instead of odorless mineral spirits.. I called them for you to get a real answer.
So Ritchie and Rule use the same product! Isopar L or Odorless Mineral Spirits hope this helps. When in doubt, and the thread turns into a use this or NO use this, the manufacturer usually comes through.. You never stated what the compass was in the OP so I guessed the most common, being Ritchie..update on filling compass
I spoke with tech at viking compass and inst repair and here's the scoop. many compasses built prior to 1940 were filled with an alcohol-water mix 90/10. after that they were filled with a mineral oil mix, mix unknown. now they are filled with either isopar-L or isopar-M. these are very similar to mineral oil except that the viscosity is lower. if compass is filled with mineral oil only it will be very slow to respond because of the higher viscosity. but it won't harm the compass. however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS. mineral spirits are a paint solvent and will in time dissolve the painted numbers on the card rendering it totally useless. when i find out what mineral oil is thinned with I'll pass it on. btw they sell isopar-L for $42/gal plus shipping. mineral oil is a hell of a lot cheaper than that. also i did a little experiment. they wanted $38 plus shipping for those little plastic diaphragms which seem to last about 5 or 6 yrs then crack and loose the fluid. so i made my own out of butyl rubber roofing sheet material. it a lot softer and is just as, if not more, chemical resistant than the freaking plastic which hardens and cracks over time. I figure I've nothing to loose but a few oz of mineral oil. We'll see how it goes. P.S. the compasses were made by rule. pps. i'm going to try to track down a supplier of isopar-L other than the compass repair people. i'm sure its available some where at a price a lot better than $42/gal. S/V Que Pasa?
I spoke with tech at viking compass and inst repair and here's the scoop. many compasses built prior to 1940 were filled with an alcohol-water mix 90/10. after that they were filled with a mineral oil mix, mix unknown. now they are filled with either isopar-L or isopar-M. these are very similar to mineral oil except that the viscosity is lower. if compass is filled with mineral oil only it will be very slow to respond because of the higher viscosity. but it won't harm the compass. however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS. mineral spirits are a paint solvent and will in time dissolve the painted numbers on the card rendering it totally useless. when i find out what mineral oil is thinned with I'll pass it on. btw they sell isopar-L for $42/gal plus shipping. mineral oil is a hell of a lot cheaper than that. also i did a little experiment. they wanted $38 plus shipping for those little plastic diaphragms which seem to last about 5 or 6 yrs then crack and loose the fluid. so i made my own out of butyl rubber roofing sheet material. it a lot softer and is just as, if not more, chemical resistant than the freaking plastic which hardens and cracks over time. I figure I've nothing to loose but a few oz of mineral oil. We'll see how it goes. P.S. the compasses were made by rule. pps. i'm going to try to track down a supplier of isopar-L other than the compass repair people. i'm sure its available some where at a price a lot better than $42/gal. S/V Que Pasa?
Hamilton...
Hamilton Marine sells Isopar L for 35.99.. Quote Jim: "however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS" Ritchie USED ODORLESS MINERAL SPIRITS UNTIL 2001!!!! I WAS PERSONALLY TOLD BY RULE THEY USE THE SAME FLUID AS RITCHIE!!!! Jim I DID NOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!! PLEASE DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND READ THE RITCHIE WEB SITE! The link is bellow. I would really question your "compass guy" about "however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS"? Maybe print out what Ritchie says and ask him? From FAQ's: "What type of fluid is in my Ritchie Magnetic Compass? Until 2001, all Ritchie compasses (see exception) were filled with odorless mineral spirits. Ritchie now uses a fluid called Isopar L® that has similar properties but some added benefits over odorless mineral spirits. These can be mixed together." AND: "My Ritchie Compass has a bubble or is very low on fluid. Is this a problem? Ritchie compasses are designed to not have a bubble; if you see a bubble, there is a leak. This may seem unlikely to you, because you may not have noticed any fluid escaping from the compass. Ritchie compasses are filled with Isopar L® or odorless mineral spirits. Both tend to evaporate before it is noticeable. Bubbles may cause a number of problems, so it is recommended that you have the compass repaired as soon as possible." Personally I tend to agree with what one of the largest manufacturers of marine compasses uses. Sometimes local "experts" are not.. I'm not an expert and never claim to be! I'm ONLY referencing MANUFACTURER information and passing it on so you can make your OWN decision and that seems to be "local expert" or two manufacturers stating they use the same fluid which is odorless mineral spirit based and prior to 2001 WAS odorless mineral spirits? Just trying to help! If your compass guy told you to use Isopar L it is basically a highly refined version odorless mineral spirits with higher flash points. Isopar M should not be used in a compass designed for Isopar L or odorless mineral spirits. Here's what Ritchie has to say (I know you don't have a Ritchie but Rule told me they use the same fluid (perhaps the Rule line of compasses is now made by Ritchie seeing as they defer to them on fluid?: "Ritchie began using Isopar L as dampening fluid during 2001. This fluid is a high-purity isoparaffinic solvent very similar to Odorless Mineral spirits. Ritchie changed to this fluid because it has a higher flash point and conforms to most of the world's shipping regulations. It is important to note that some other manufacturers use Isopar M as their dampening fluid. PLEASE NOTE: ISOPAR M CANNOT BE USED IN RITCHIE COMPASSES." Again, these are NOT my words!
Hamilton Marine sells Isopar L for 35.99.. Quote Jim: "however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS" Ritchie USED ODORLESS MINERAL SPIRITS UNTIL 2001!!!! I WAS PERSONALLY TOLD BY RULE THEY USE THE SAME FLUID AS RITCHIE!!!! Jim I DID NOT MAKE THIS STUFF UP!! PLEASE DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND READ THE RITCHIE WEB SITE! The link is bellow. I would really question your "compass guy" about "however compasses should never be filled with mineral SPIRITS"? Maybe print out what Ritchie says and ask him? From FAQ's: "What type of fluid is in my Ritchie Magnetic Compass? Until 2001, all Ritchie compasses (see exception) were filled with odorless mineral spirits. Ritchie now uses a fluid called Isopar L® that has similar properties but some added benefits over odorless mineral spirits. These can be mixed together." AND: "My Ritchie Compass has a bubble or is very low on fluid. Is this a problem? Ritchie compasses are designed to not have a bubble; if you see a bubble, there is a leak. This may seem unlikely to you, because you may not have noticed any fluid escaping from the compass. Ritchie compasses are filled with Isopar L® or odorless mineral spirits. Both tend to evaporate before it is noticeable. Bubbles may cause a number of problems, so it is recommended that you have the compass repaired as soon as possible." Personally I tend to agree with what one of the largest manufacturers of marine compasses uses. Sometimes local "experts" are not.. I'm not an expert and never claim to be! I'm ONLY referencing MANUFACTURER information and passing it on so you can make your OWN decision and that seems to be "local expert" or two manufacturers stating they use the same fluid which is odorless mineral spirit based and prior to 2001 WAS odorless mineral spirits? Just trying to help! If your compass guy told you to use Isopar L it is basically a highly refined version odorless mineral spirits with higher flash points. Isopar M should not be used in a compass designed for Isopar L or odorless mineral spirits. Here's what Ritchie has to say (I know you don't have a Ritchie but Rule told me they use the same fluid (perhaps the Rule line of compasses is now made by Ritchie seeing as they defer to them on fluid?: "Ritchie began using Isopar L as dampening fluid during 2001. This fluid is a high-purity isoparaffinic solvent very similar to Odorless Mineral spirits. Ritchie changed to this fluid because it has a higher flash point and conforms to most of the world's shipping regulations. It is important to note that some other manufacturers use Isopar M as their dampening fluid. PLEASE NOTE: ISOPAR M CANNOT BE USED IN RITCHIE COMPASSES." Again, these are NOT my words!
I was once told by a factory rep at Ritchie
that repairs to old compasses best be left to authorized dealers. Not only do they have the proper tools and practice but more important they have access to a full range of replacement parts handy and will stand behind their work. He indicated the most common complaint by DIYers was that after a short time of replacing the diaphragm, O rings and refilling the compass that the air bubble would return. He stressed the importance of replacing any parts that through time had lost their tolerance and the importance of bench pressure testing. I did not heed the advice and learned a lesson the hard way.
that repairs to old compasses best be left to authorized dealers. Not only do they have the proper tools and practice but more important they have access to a full range of replacement parts handy and will stand behind their work. He indicated the most common complaint by DIYers was that after a short time of replacing the diaphragm, O rings and refilling the compass that the air bubble would return. He stressed the importance of replacing any parts that through time had lost their tolerance and the importance of bench pressure testing. I did not heed the advice and learned a lesson the hard way.
Perhaps because...
You did not put the compass fluid under vacuum? "Dampening Fluid Be sure to subject the fluid to a vacuum equivalent of 28 inches of mercury for a minimum of 15 minutes before sealing it in the compass. This step prevents the formation of a bubble in the fluid due to temperature changes."
You did not put the compass fluid under vacuum? "Dampening Fluid Be sure to subject the fluid to a vacuum equivalent of 28 inches of mercury for a minimum of 15 minutes before sealing it in the compass. This step prevents the formation of a bubble in the fluid due to temperature changes."
Oderless Mineral Spirits
I think that some here on this site want you to fail!!!! I have used oderless mineral spirits to fill several compasses. Using a vaccum to degas is a good ideal. The other option is to put the spirits in a freezer overnight. Don't believe me go to the ritchie website. IsoparL might be better but it is a lot more expensive.
I think that some here on this site want you to fail!!!! I have used oderless mineral spirits to fill several compasses. Using a vaccum to degas is a good ideal. The other option is to put the spirits in a freezer overnight. Don't believe me go to the ritchie website. IsoparL might be better but it is a lot more expensive.
I am at a total lose on this frikking thing!
I was merely passing on what viking instruments told me. they are a factory authorized repair shop for several manufacturers. since i don't have a clue how to post their web site, just google compass repair parts and their site will be one of the first to come up. as to leaking there's not too many places for the fluid to leak out, as a matter of fact only three, unless the lens or body is cracked. one is the o ring seal on the lens, two is the gasket on the fill screw, three is the expansion diaphragm. as for a bubble i don't think that will be a problem since they are bulkhead mounted. as for evactuating it with a vac pump, that is an impossibility given that there isn't any valve to close it off after evactuation. there is merely a fill screw on the back side to put the fluid in. hey i'm just going to give it a shot and see what happens. I just got some mineral oil from the drug store which cost me $1.82. i only have that to lose. oderless mineral spirits might work but i'm inclined to try the oil first. S/V Que Pasa?
I was merely passing on what viking instruments told me. they are a factory authorized repair shop for several manufacturers. since i don't have a clue how to post their web site, just google compass repair parts and their site will be one of the first to come up. as to leaking there's not too many places for the fluid to leak out, as a matter of fact only three, unless the lens or body is cracked. one is the o ring seal on the lens, two is the gasket on the fill screw, three is the expansion diaphragm. as for a bubble i don't think that will be a problem since they are bulkhead mounted. as for evactuating it with a vac pump, that is an impossibility given that there isn't any valve to close it off after evactuation. there is merely a fill screw on the back side to put the fluid in. hey i'm just going to give it a shot and see what happens. I just got some mineral oil from the drug store which cost me $1.82. i only have that to lose. oderless mineral spirits might work but i'm inclined to try the oil first. S/V Que Pasa?
Update on filling compass
the factory auth dealer for repairing my rule gemini compass was totally off the wall. one; mineral oil will not work. i started to fill with the oil on sat. it soon became obvious that card responds so slowly that it would be useless. even with thinning with mineral spirits it was still too viscous. two; since odorless mineral spirits were used until 2001 i see no reason why i should have to fill a 30 yr old and an 18 yr old compass with the latest greatest expensive fluid. I'm going to do exactly as maine sailer and moon suggested and use odorless mineral spirits, which i purchased at home depot on sat for the exorbitant price of $10/gal. of which i can still use the remainder for use as my normal varnish and paint brush cleaner. i wasted $2 on the mineral oil, but oh well, live and learn. thanks guys. s/v Que Pasa?
the factory auth dealer for repairing my rule gemini compass was totally off the wall. one; mineral oil will not work. i started to fill with the oil on sat. it soon became obvious that card responds so slowly that it would be useless. even with thinning with mineral spirits it was still too viscous. two; since odorless mineral spirits were used until 2001 i see no reason why i should have to fill a 30 yr old and an 18 yr old compass with the latest greatest expensive fluid. I'm going to do exactly as maine sailer and moon suggested and use odorless mineral spirits, which i purchased at home depot on sat for the exorbitant price of $10/gal. of which i can still use the remainder for use as my normal varnish and paint brush cleaner. i wasted $2 on the mineral oil, but oh well, live and learn. thanks guys. s/v Que Pasa?
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