Reefing Sail Trim

[Hayden Watson]

Hayden, you have to loosen the main sheet (& vang) to allow the reef line to pull the boom up to the reef cringle. Your halyard was too tight which is why there was space between boom and sail. You'll pull that reef cringle out on a typical production sail.

If you are talking about my video I posted, the vang main sheet and traveler are all completely slack. I have no intention or interest in pulling the cringle down tight to the boom. I have it set up to pull the tack and clew reef cringle down to a point at this about 4"-6" above the boom. I have found that trying to get any lower than that causes the lines to run off the sides of several blocks which just increases the friction.

The halyard mark is set to hold the tack cringle at that fixed height above the boom and corresponding blocks so that the lines at the tack will run fair through the blocks allowing the tension to transfer to the clew through the blocks inside the boom. I then crank down on the winch until I get the sail tensioned along the foot to establish the flatness (reef outhaul) that I want. I then retention the main sheet to set twist and traveler for angle of attack.

As for pulling the reef cringle out of the sail when hauling it down, the degree of load put on the cringle by the winch is far less than what the wind will put into it once the sail is retrimmed. I have never seen a sail cringle pulled out by hoisting but have seen many shredded by the wind.

If you actually meant that the sail could be torn by the reef lines at the reef points which are located at several places along the it should be noted that I do not have any lines tied into those cringles and never will. My new sail was ordered without them because I will not ever use them. Before I purchased Papillon the mainsail was torn in two right along those reef points due to either a break or uncleating of the reef line which put those reef points into tension and the sail is not designed for any vertical tension in those tiny little patches.

 

[Ward H]

@Hayden Watson ’s reefing method works and works well. He helped me set up SLR on my C30, then taught me his method.
Now reefing the main is easy and takes under a minute to put in and set the sail.

 

[Morgan donor]

Agreed that one is more likely to pull the undersized reefing blocks off the boom of a production boat than tear out a reef cringle. (Unless it's a well used production sail). I like my aft cringle on the boom and a safety line around the boom (just in case) and the tack on a hook.
IIRC, the aft block should intersect the angle of the lowered sail to equalize forces aft on the foot and down on the leach? Isn't that the theory?
In a related note: was racing this weekend 15-20 gusts to 30. A French aluminum CB boat (Malo 40+/-) broke 6 slugs out of his mast at the battan carriers after reefing his main. DNF'd. I'm guessing his angle was off, more back than down? Or maybe UV'd slugs?
To each their own.

 

[Simon Sexton]

I'm surprised no one has talked about reef-lines yet! Just a helpful pointer: Reef-lines should be tied tightly enough to prevent the flaked sail from falling off the boom, but loosely enough as not to distort the shape of the new sail area (tall creases and such). If your boat has a lazy jack system or furling main or boom, you're one of the lucky mates who don't have to worry about tying reefs!

 

[Hayden Watson]

I'm surprised no one has talked about reef-lines yet! Just a helpful pointer: Reef-lines should be tied tightly enough to prevent the flaked sail from falling off the boom, but loosely enough as not to distort the shape of the new sail area (tall creases and such). If your boat has a lazy jack system or furling main or boom, you're one of the lucky mates who don't have to worry about tying reefs!

I talked about them in post #21. I never use them and never will. My current boat has a stack pack and before that EZJax but none of my previous boats did and I still did not use them. Here is a photo of the first reef with none of the reef points tied in. You just end up with a nice fold of cloth that lies nicely alongside the boom. It never flogs, flaps or flutters. The second reef will tuck into this fold just and nicely. If I needed to be reefed for days, I might tie in the reef points just to tidy things up. On my new sail, I asked the sailmaker to not install the reef point gromets at either of the reefs.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I'm the SF sailor who started this thread. For those not familiar with SF Bay conditions, from April through September it blows 20-30 knots almost every afternoon. My current boat, a Beneteau O-38, has in mast reefing, no traveler (sadly), and no adjustable backstay. When sailing close-hauled to close reach in winds of 18+ knots, even with the main trimmed flat with vang and outhaul tension, the rudder loses control and the boat rounds up in most gusts, not to mention being healed far enough to make less experienced crew uncomfortable. In the absence of a traveler, the ability to depower the sail by increasing twist via the mainsheet is limited by the uncomfortable and destructive flogging which results from the slackened mainsheet. That's why I start reefing when the wind gets to about 18 knots and reef further as the wind continues to build. When the wind hits the high 20's I usually put a small reef in the furling and non-overlapping jib. While I'm not a big fan of furling mains, the ability to reef quickly and easily and to any desired sail area is a big plus.

I assume that you have a vang. Given that you do not have a traveler, have you tried vang sheeting? With that, you use the vang to trim the sail for twist and the sheet for angle of attack. The vang keeps the boom down to prevent the flogging you mention and then you open up the angle of attack with the sheet without losing control of the main.

 

[watercolors II]

An idea for those boats that have the clue’s reefing line running clear back to the end of the boom and continuing through the boom to the mast with maybe a small clutch for securing this line at the mast. When the line is pulled as tight one can the reefing grommet and sail cloth does not come clear down to the boom, the foot of the sail is stretched tight but, the grommet is still a couple inches away from the top of the boom, even with this line running through the grommet and the end of the line tied to the boom.

Try setting up this line, from the end of the boom, through the grommet and down under the boom and back up to this reefing line before going through the grommet and tie a small bowline around it. When you reef, this slip knot on the line will act like a noose at the grommet squeezing it down to the top of the boom as well as tightening the foot of the sail.

 

[Hayden Watson]

An idea for those boats that have the clue’s reefing line running clear back to the end of the boom and continuing through the boom to the mast with maybe a small clutch for securing this line at the mast. When the line is pulled as tight one can the reefing grommet and sail cloth does not come clear down to the boom, the foot of the sail is stretched tight but, the grommet is still a couple inches away from the top of the boom, even with this line running through the grommet and the end of the line tied to the boom.

Try setting up this line, from the end of the boom, through the grommet and down under the boom and back up to this reefing line before going through the grommet and tie a small bowline around it. When you reef, this slip knot on the line will act like a noose at the grommet squeezing it down to the top of the boom as well as tightening the foot of the sail.

You are correct that the clew reefing line should not go from a block at the end of the boom up to the cringle and back to the end (or just be tied to the cringle) because that only pulls tension on the foot but not the leach.
I have found that it is not necessary to go around the boom and back up to the cringle. As long as one part of the line goes to the end of the boom (to act as the outhaul) and the other part goes straight down to the boom (to act as a strop or clew car) then the clew is pulled down and back to give a good flat shape. I have the dead end of the reefing line loop under the boom and tied to my jiffy-reefing car which is on a track and have spent some time fine-tuning the location of it to get the best combination of back and down.

 

[Joe]

The method used for those types of masts is to tie the outer end of the clew line around the boom directly below the leech cringle, it runs vertically up to the cringle then back to the boom's end block, the forward to the internal cleat at the mast end. If it is difficult to snug the clew cringle down to its optimal reef position, you can ease the mainsheet a bit to let the boom rise, then hand tighten he reef line. You then use the power of the mainsheet, and boom's leverage to bring the clew down the rest of the way. If this is a duplicate, I'm sorry, just go lazy and skipped reading all the comments.

 

[Screen Saver]

Interesting topic But its far to wide to be one topic with one set of answers All the rigs are different to start with.. So on my Hunter 49, there is no backstay, and its effectively a B&R Fractional Rig. I don’t know if I have ever seen this rig on any non Hunter Mono. Then you have those with Staysails, storm sails, different furling models, different reefing models, the design itself such as swept back spreaders, add to this probably the biggest boom at 22ft & on a tall mast and about 1300sqft of sail and I can be easily over powered at 15 knts true wind speed, or can be doing 8-10 SOG in 12 knots true. We clearly have a good mix of people here some racers some cruisers.

As a Crusiers when I first started many years ago I used to ask two question from those whom I thought were well cruised and much more experience than I, (1) “If you could give the a novice cruiser only 1 piece of advice in sailing, what would that be ?” By far the statement was reef early. (2nd questions was “where have you been out in biggest wind and sea’s” for me now is 68knots 8m seas)

Anyway point being Cruisers are in compromise mode between doing what is best for the boat/sails/rig/sog/comfort so as not to break or damage anything or have there wife buy a plain ticket home, while racers except that yep we will get wet, if it breaks it was probably warn out, and if he can we should be able to, while tweaking everything for that last 0.03 knots. So in short if this is a cruiser discussion for Novices or those perhaps not as skilled as others we would be looking at generic thoughts, Reef early, reef the hardest sail first, don’t let the sail flog, how best to reef a large Geni/jib when the wind is behind you, can you or should you do it down wind….. anyway I assume you get my drift.- Just my thoughts on this discussion.