Below are pictures of the 2 diverters and the pump out I removed and rebuilt from my waste system. I am thinking of reinstalling according to the diagram. Anyone have any comments or suggestions on the plan?
Redoing Waste System
- Thread starter wufibugs
- Start date
If I could offer the following:
You may want to install the vacuum breaker in the incoming raw water line for two reasons ....... a) unless the head is a considerable distance above the waterline, you run the risk of siphoning sea water into the head b) the sewage in the head discharge line will tend to foul the vacuum breaker.
I notice your proposed discharge pump is a diaphragm type which may become clogged with solid material as opposed to a macerator type discharge pump.
I'm not familiar with the areas you sail in, but you probably want a system that can only pump into the holding tank so that you can hold and discharge your sewage into an area that is more acceptable (see attached).
Attachments
Mine was simpler (but not as simple as Ralph's if you don't mind using the holding tank) as there was a time when it was set up for direct discharge when cruising and I didn't want anything in the holding tank for those periods. You can retain the one three way valve just after the vented loop in the head discharge line. Change the three way at your sea-cock to a Tee. When you pump the head for overboard discharge the diaphragm pump acts as a check valve and material doesn't go past it. Change the three way valve going up to the deck fitting to a Tee. My pump was only about 6 inches from the main line at that point so there wasn't much retention and it would easily dilute when the tank was flushed. When you suck it out, the diaphragm pump still acts as a check valve and doesn't allow passage of material from either an open sea-cock or the bowl depending on where you have the three way valve set. When using the holding tank, close the sea-cock and wire or zip tie it closed in case of an inspection. I believe you can also remove the handle from the three way so an inspector will see that you would have to use a tool to make it operational for direct discharge and won't "inadvertently" discharge within the three mile limit.
This way you have two spare three way valves and a bit simpler system. If you plumb like Ralph suggests, you can eliminate the three way valve for a "Tee" and just keep the sea-cock closed. If you need to discharge out in the ocean, open the secured sea-cock and pump away. Now you have three spare three ways.
As Ralph say's, best practice is to install a second vented loop on the raw water feed. Double check this one, but I thought it went on the line from the pump to the head, not on the feed side.
Edit: I see now that you already have a Y at the sea-cock. I thought it was another 3 way. Everything else still applies.
This way you have two spare three way valves and a bit simpler system. If you plumb like Ralph suggests, you can eliminate the three way valve for a "Tee" and just keep the sea-cock closed. If you need to discharge out in the ocean, open the secured sea-cock and pump away. Now you have three spare three ways.
As Ralph say's, best practice is to install a second vented loop on the raw water feed. Double check this one, but I thought it went on the line from the pump to the head, not on the feed side.
Edit: I see now that you already have a Y at the sea-cock. I thought it was another 3 way. Everything else still applies.
Richard, Ralph's suggestion makes sense, to eliminate one Y valve. However, a vented loop on the intake is unnecessary and the pump won't work. The vented loop goes between the hand pump and the bowl.
Another option that requires only one Y valve is to place the Y valve on the outlet of the head to choose between overboard or to the tank. This requires two tank outlets: one to the deck pump out and one to the macerator. Depends on what holes you have in your tank.
Another option that requires only one Y valve is to place the Y valve on the outlet of the head to choose between overboard or to the tank. This requires two tank outlets: one to the deck pump out and one to the macerator. Depends on what holes you have in your tank.
Yes, Yes, Yes .....................
................... blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.
The vacuum breaker DEFINITELY goes after the head pump and before the bowl as mentioned. You can't really suck on a vacuum breaker with much effect.
................... blind in one eye and can't see out of the other
.The vacuum breaker DEFINITELY goes after the head pump and before the bowl as mentioned. You can't really suck on a vacuum breaker with much effect.
I'm well trained by my wife in that matter after each use.
Before, or after ???
Intake vented loop
Some electric toilets don't have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl...in which case the intake line is in the only place to put an intake vented loop. That requires an electric solenoid valve in the loop that's connected to the flush button...closes the air valve to let the intake pump prime, opens it to break the siphon when flushing is complete.
In some installations, a vented loop is needed in both the intake and discharge.
Toilets at or below the waterline definitely DO need a siphon break (vented loop) in the intake...but it should NOT be installed in the line between the thru-hull and pump...it goes between the pump and the bowl, which requires replacing the short piece of hose mfrs use to connect them with hoses long enough to mount the loop at least 6-8" above waterline at any angle of heel, which on most sailboats puts it 2-3 FEET above the bowl. The correct place to install one is shown in every toilet installation instruction guide. Installation instructions for the Jabsco Twist 'n' Lock are here (a pdf will download...it takes a while) Jabsco Manual Twist & Lock Raritan PH II is here: http://www.raritaneng.com/?s=phii+owners+manual
Some electric toilets don't have a connecting line between the pump and the bowl...in which case the intake line is in the only place to put an intake vented loop. That requires an electric solenoid valve in the loop that's connected to the flush button...closes the air valve to let the intake pump prime, opens it to break the siphon when flushing is complete.
In some installations, a vented loop is needed in both the intake and discharge.
open before ...close after always try to remember this its worth its weight in gold :dance:
Speaking of which...do any of y'alll have--or know where to find--the somewhat humourous--but actually pretty useful--toilet use instructions that used to be sold in boat stores on a plaque to mount in the head? I'm NOT looking for just "nothing goes into the head that you haven't eaten first" (or similar wording)...the one I recall is several sentences that may or may not have included the request that gentlemen ALWAYS sit (that may be a separate placard).
I don't need a plaque, just all the wording...all help greatly appreciated.
If you sprinkle when you tinkle, be a sweetie, wipe the seatie.
Or
Always sit- it's shorter than you think.
try here http://www.boatmartusa.com/products/Bernard-%2d-Notice-to-Landlubbers-Sign.html Peggie and see if this is what you are looking for
What I know
I installed the twist N lock Jabsco pump and wonder why all hand pumps didn't start out like this. NOTE : The reason I install a New twist/lock pump was because I used the WM pump lube that killed the rubber parts in my old pump!
I installed the twist N lock Jabsco pump and wonder why all hand pumps didn't start out like this. NOTE : The reason I install a New twist/lock pump was because I used the WM pump lube that killed the rubber parts in my old pump!
That's it, Woody...thanks!
I doubt that WM head lube damaged the rubber parts in your toilet, bmj...nothing thin enough to just pour into the bowl will last more than a couple of flushes, so unless you used some with just about every flush, friction from lack of lubrication may have just worn out the rubber parts. Bleach will definitely kiil rubber...so will household chemical bowl cleaners, pine oil cleaners, automotive antifreeze... Vinegar flushed through the system will prevent sea water mineral buildup, but it must not be left to sit the bowl. Soft rubber left soaking in vinegar will swell up and distort.
So I think you need to review what else you used in your toilet that damaged the rubber parts in it...'cuz if you're still using it, or not using a lube that will keep it lubricated, you're damaging the new toilet too. There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about how to keep a toilet well lubricated...suggest you search the archives here.
I wanted to thank all who contributed. I did not ignore my my post and your responses, just returned to the living from a bout with the flu.
Peggy and Stu agree that a siphon break or vented loop between the toilet pump and the bowl is necessary. So I will draw that in.
Ralph, I am with Allan on wanting to have the option of pumping overboard without involving the holding tank.
Allan, I'm not totally clear on your suggestion. "My" diagram has a T fitting at the discharge seacock, though the way it was drawn it does look like a 3 way valve. So I think you are in agreement there. Your other suggestion was to eliminate the 3-way from the deck pump out circuit and substitute a T because the diaphragm pump acts as a 1-way valve anyway. I had assumed the 3 way was there to protect the diaphragm pump bellows from the high suction rates of the pump out station.
Peggy and Stu agree that a siphon break or vented loop between the toilet pump and the bowl is necessary. So I will draw that in.
Ralph, I am with Allan on wanting to have the option of pumping overboard without involving the holding tank.
Allan, I'm not totally clear on your suggestion. "My" diagram has a T fitting at the discharge seacock, though the way it was drawn it does look like a 3 way valve. So I think you are in agreement there. Your other suggestion was to eliminate the 3-way from the deck pump out circuit and substitute a T because the diaphragm pump acts as a 1-way valve anyway. I had assumed the 3 way was there to protect the diaphragm pump bellows from the high suction rates of the pump out station.
Richard, Yes we are on the same page with your discharge tee. The small phone screen prevented me from catching that at first.
The diaphragm pump materials are really robust (capable of very high pumping pressures) so there won't be an issue with the pump out suction. Besides the tank vent is moderating that suction anyway. The vacuum is pretty low. Mine was configured like I described for 25 years and the pump never even needed a rebuild kit.
Allan
Can you guys take another look at the diagram in my original post [which I corrected to add a vented loop at the toilet pump] and tell me if it's really true that the discharge from the toilet is supposed to go through the vented loop before it is routed to either the holding tank or overboard. That seems counterintuitive.