Re-installing internal halyards

[nodachi]

First of all, I've checked the archives for the answer to my question but I didn't see my question asked.

Okay, July 7th, I bit the bullet and bought my first sailboat. Adventure is a 81 Hunter 22, and I love her. :dance:

I'm not ready to take her out this year so I wanted to get her ship shape and in preparation for winter, I obediently :naughty: followed the instructions in the Hunter 22 owner's manual to take care of the lines each season by washing them. So I removed the halyards to wash them - and they were filthy - but now I can't get them back inside the mast. :neutral:

I bought a couple of 1/4" plumbing augers in hopes of attaching the halyards to the augers and then pulling them through behing the augers. But the augers seem to reach the top of the mast and then stop. :bang:


My mast is unstepped so do you disassemble the mast or is this an expensive visit to a marina?

You assistance is deeply appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Not sure what you are asking but if it is how to get the halyards back through the mast, the typical procedure is simply drop them down from the top with a small weight and use some fashion of hook to grab them to pull through the slots in the mast base (if you have them). Gravity is your friend

 

[Clark]

Since your mast is down (I believe I read that right); you've got a challenge for sure. The problem is that the halyard exits over a sheave which hampers the use of a "snake". See if you can get the mast at about a 45* or better tilt and using a small weight on some fishing line, feed the line over the sheave at the top and down, jiggling it to keep it feeding. You'll have to hook it at the other end as Don said. Anothe possibility is to tie a short piece of cord to the end of the snake and then feed the snake until it reaches the masthead. Look for the end of the snake (and the cord) through the opening at the sheave and try to hook the short piece of line.

Next time, attach a pull cord to the end of the halyard and as you pull the halyard out, you'll pull in the cord allowing you to pull the halyard back in when you're ready.

Lots of techniques described in the archives on how to attach a cord to the halyard tail.

Best of luck!

 

[Steve Dion]

Like Clark mentioned you need to get some elevation on the mast head to make this easier. You can then use something like bicycle chain attached to a small line. You may be able to feed this down the mast.

Another option would be an electricians tape. If you can feed this down the entire length you can then pull a fish line back up the stick and attach that to your halyard.

If you are not going to use the boat for now, I would wait until you are ready to go to do this. If you do it now your line will be dirty by next season.

 

[nodachi]

Not sure what you are asking but if it is how to get the halyards back through the mast, the typical procedure is simply drop them down from the top with a small weight and use some fashion of hook to grab them to pull through the slots in the mast base (if you have them). Gravity is your friend

Hi Don,

Thanks. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear but what I'm saying is I'm unable to get my halyards back inside the mast where they originally were.

My boat is trailered on the side of my home and the mast is unstepped and lying somewhat on top of the boat and it appears the top of the mast is kind of enclosed, which is why I was wondering about disassembling it.

 

[nodachi]

Good morning Clark,

Yes, you're crrect. When I picked up the boat, they unstepped the mast and laid it on top of the cabin with the base in the bow pulpit and that's where it's remained.

And yes, it certainly has been mentally challenging.

And yes, I have seen "lots of techniques described in the archives on how to attach a cord to the halyard tail" but this is after the cow has gotten out of the barn - or the halyard is out of the mast(?)

"The problem is that the halyard exits over a sheave which hampers the use of a "snake". "

Exactly.

I'm having to work alone and not having a boom crutch (?) I'm fairly certain I won't be able to elevate that mast to 45 degrees so the idea of dropping a weight with a line attached wouldn't work but your second idea of tying "a short piece of cord to the end of the snake and then feeding the snake until it reaches the masthead and looking for the end of the snake (and the cord) through the opening at the sheave and trying "to hook the short piece of line" sounds quite promising, because one good thing about that snake is that it does reliably reach the masthead. So possibly, like Don suggests, if I can hook that string, I might be able to pull it enough to bend the end of the snake and pull it out, and then back over the next sheave, to push it back through the mast for it to exit at the foot of the mast. Hopefully.

I'll take some pictures and upload them for you to see what's happening but thanks guys.

 

[nodachi]

Hey Steve,

With your first idea I guess you're saying, with the mast elevated, the weight of the bicycle chain will pull the line behind it down the mast.

Okay, I can see that, but I can't get the mast elevated and would that solution address having to first install the halyard at the foot of the mast and then go up to the mast head and then come back down so that the halyards will be able to raise and lower the sails?

In your second suggestion, I too thought of fishline but I've never worked with it and didn't know if it was long enough, but it might be strong enough, yet more flexible than the snake, to feed from the bottom, bend it over the top sheave in the masthead and then back down the mast to the foot, pulling the halyard behind - so that's a pretty plausible idea.

As far as waiting until I'm "ready to go to do this" because if I do it now my lines will be "dirty by next season." - Steve, at this stage, don't you think, dirty halyards are the least of my concerns????

 

[peptobysmol]

Get a fish tape and thread it through the mast. I used the wall fish and an flexible grabber to "grab" it on the other end. I recently had to do this to replace the mastlight wiring on my Hunter 23 after the darn wiring broke when I was trying to pull it through. What was really hard to do was to actually see inside the mast where the fish tape was to retrieve it with the grabber. It really helps to have 2 people to do this. Good luck and let us know how you did.

 

[nodachi]

Hi Peptobysmol!!!!!

I certainly will let you guys know what happened!!!

And thank you BIG TIME for those links!!! You know what they say about "a picture". I'll probably have to wait until the 15th so be a little patient with me but I think that should work.

Speaking of wiring in the mast, I too was concerned about that because I don't know if mine work and after reading that article here about the powerboat ramming the sailboat from behind...but nevertheless, I definitely will be back in touch out here to let everybody know what happens but thank you all for taking time out of your busy lives to share and try to help me.

 

[George H260]

If none of the other techniques work it is a simple matter to drill the rivets out of the base and cap. Then push the line through the mast on a long stick.

 

[nodachi]

Good morning George,

Thank you very much for this picture. It ties in excellently with some serious concerns of mind so I had to wait until I got some pictures before responding.


If the 2 photographs uploaded properly, in the first - Top masthead sheaves1 - you can easily see there's very little room to see down there, let alone being able to reach in to pull anything out. In the second photograph - Two bolts1 - I'm considering if those 2 bolts on the side of the mast hold in the gray section that's over the sheaves and if so, perhaps if removed I'd have access to the inside of the mast as shown by your pictures. What's your take? Don't want to make more of an unnecessary than I've already done.

 

[George H260]

Of course my mast cap looks somewhat different but it does look to me as if once the two bolts are removed the cap will slide out.

Of course in the future you'll do this differently - leave a messenger line in the mast so it makes it easy to restore the line.

 

[nodachi]

Hey George,

Thanks for this latest picture but yeah most definitely ("... it does look...as if once the two bolts are removed the cap will slide out").

And of course in the future [I'll] do this differently - leave a messenger line in the mast so it makes it easy to restore the line.

While searching the forums to the answer to this problem I read where one guy said if you didn't leave a messenger line in the mast, "you'll hate yourself if you don't", and that's been resounding in my head ever since I read it. Talk about a PITA. I'll let you know what happens later.

 

[George H260]

That's why, unfortunately I have to live by the saying:

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment"

That said, there are few fatal mistakes, the rest are just irritants we learn from.

 

[jcherubini]

Try this:

Remove the masthead fitting if possible.
Buy two or three lengths of PVC pipe and couplings. Should cost about 6.00.
With the spar lying down, use this 30-ft piece of PVC pipe to push a string up to the top of the mast. Don't force it-- be careful of the wiring conduit
Using the string, pull a loop of each halyard through the mast to the top (always trail another string with you in case you have to pull it out. Make sure you retain both ends of the halyard at the bottom end!
Put the sheave into the loop, reinstall it into the masthead fitting.
Use the second string you pulled through for the other halyard and do the same thing.
Then remount the masthead fitting in the masthead.

Be sure to get the forward and aft ends of the halyard in the right places! --the jib halyard shackle has to come out the front and the mainsail one out the back. (This is a really 'doop!' thing to get wrong... but people do.)

EMail me and see if this works. I have to do it with wiring myself soon!

Next time remember the fish line!!!

 

[Bobbi Ullinger]

I would try an electrician's fish tape, but rather tan pushing it from the bass to the head (where you have little clearance), try pushing the fish tape from the head, over the sheave, to the base, where you may have more room to grab it with a coat hanger hook. This has worked for me in the past.

Also, on our boat, I can remove the sheave at the head fairly easy, without having to remove the entire head piece. Don't know if this is possible on yours.

 

[nodachi]

That's why, unfortunately I have to live by the saying:

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lotta that comes from bad judgment"

That said, there are few fatal mistakes, the rest are just irritants we learn from.

Lol. Yeah, and you know I only noticed that blurb down at the bottom after I saw your second email - but that's very true.

I'm really eager to get started on this but this has been one very hectic - if brief - summer, and I bought the boat in the midst of everything else that's going on because I thought it was one of those "Now or never" type situations, and actually I think it was.

But I so totally don't regret doing it. Yeah, there's a lot going on but man, for me, I think it's one of the best decisions I've ever made.

 

[nodachi]

I would try an electrician's fish tape, but rather tan pushing it from the bass to the head (where you have little clearance), try pushing the fish tape from the head, over the sheave, to the base, where you may have more room to grab it with a coat hanger hook. This has worked for me in the past.

Also, on our boat, I can remove the sheave at the head fairly easy, without having to remove the entire head piece. Don't know if this is possible on yours.

Hey Rob,

I don't have the electrician's fish tape yet but the reason I'm going from the base up to the head is most importantly because the halyards originally led from the base of the mast back to the cockpit, so you could raise and lower them from the cockpit. So that being the case, the only way I could see how you could raise and lower the sails from the cockpit was if the halyards were first installed at the base of the mast, then run to the top of the mast, and then back down to the foot of the mast and then back to the cockpit.

Secondly, there's clearance and it's easier to insert the lines over the sheaves at the bottom than at the top which leads to why it's necessary to remove the mast head. If you click on and enlarge those pictures you'll see you can't see behind the sheaves and there's no room to get down into the mast head over those sheaves.

And since the snake auger did successfully reach the top, I was going to remove the cap at the top and use the snake auger I already have rather than buy the electrician's fish tape, and run the snake to the top from the bottom with the halyards attached and then over the sheaves at the top and back down to the bottom of the mast and out over the sheaves at the base and back to the cockpit.

It sounds pretty logical but I just hope it works.

 

[nodachi]

Try this:

Remove the masthead fitting if possible.
Buy two or three lengths of PVC pipe and couplings. Should cost about 6.00.
With the spar lying down, use this 30-ft piece of PVC pipe to push a string up to the top of the mast. Don't force it-- be careful of the wiring conduit
Using the string, pull a loop of each halyard through the mast to the top (always trail another string with you in case you have to pull it out. Make sure you retain both ends of the halyard at the bottom end!
Put the sheave into the loop, reinstall it into the masthead fitting.
Use the second string you pulled through for the other halyard and do the same thing.
Then remount the masthead fitting in the masthead.

Be sure to get the forward and aft ends of the halyard in the right places! --the jib halyard shackle has to come out the front and the mainsail one out the back. (This is a really 'doop!' thing to get wrong... but people do.)

EMail me and see if this works. I have to do it with wiring myself soon!

Next time remember the fish line!!!

“Next time remember the fish line!!!”

Lol. Yeah, don’t I know it – NOW!!!

:naughty: But the H22 Owner's Manual didn't say anything about attaching a line or anything else to the halyards to pull them through - so it's not entirely my fault. :neutral:

Hey J,

After I remove the cap at the head of the mast I was going to run the snake with string attached to it up to the top and over the sheaves and back down to the bottom of the mast and then pull the halyards through that are attached to the string. Is this what you’re saying too?

 

[Clark]

Since the head can be unbolted, you'll have no need to leave a pull string in the mast fo some possible future use. It can wind up being a line that fouls others in the mast as you remove and re-reave halyards. An exception might be to have one for a near future spinnaker halyard - the 'extra' sheave on the front of the mast. Be carefull to not let your strings (and subsequent halyards) twist around each other inside the mast as you pull them through. Isn't the mast down right now?