between rebuilds? Looking through the ads on used boat sites, we always see the hours on the engines...what does that mean to a buyer? On average, how many hours is a diesel aux good for? Other factors--fresh water cooling, etc.? Appreciate any insights... Bill
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diesel engine hours
You'll find that most diesels can go 5-6k hrs before a rebuild assuming good maintenance. But, I'd rather have a diesel with 5,000 hrs well cared for and run often (and for long periods when run) than one with 1,000 that is neglected. Fresh water cooling is nice and will reduce rusting, but is not truly a necessity in older engines as they were built to be cooled by raw water and built of appropriately heavier materials. You can always convert to FWC also. When in doubt, get the engine surveyed...worth every penny when you're unsure. Check the archives, and this link to the archives on a good discussion. Peter
You'll find that most diesels can go 5-6k hrs before a rebuild assuming good maintenance. But, I'd rather have a diesel with 5,000 hrs well cared for and run often (and for long periods when run) than one with 1,000 that is neglected. Fresh water cooling is nice and will reduce rusting, but is not truly a necessity in older engines as they were built to be cooled by raw water and built of appropriately heavier materials. You can always convert to FWC also. When in doubt, get the engine surveyed...worth every penny when you're unsure. Check the archives, and this link to the archives on a good discussion. Peter
26 years old and still ticking
Our original Yanmar one-lunger is still going strong. There is no hours measurement on it, by our excellent diesel mechanic sees no need to even think of a rebuild. Compression is still good, and no other problems evident. David Lady Lillie
Our original Yanmar one-lunger is still going strong. There is no hours measurement on it, by our excellent diesel mechanic sees no need to even think of a rebuild. Compression is still good, and no other problems evident. David Lady Lillie
Which brand?
Bill: Yanmar 2GM-3GM F's are rated for 10,000-12,000 hours. I must agree that 1,000 of neglect are worse than several thousand hours of care/proper maintenance. Annual oil changes and clean fuel are key issues.
Bill: Yanmar 2GM-3GM F's are rated for 10,000-12,000 hours. I must agree that 1,000 of neglect are worse than several thousand hours of care/proper maintenance. Annual oil changes and clean fuel are key issues.
22 years and still runs strong
My Yanmar 2gm15 is 22 years old and starts every time, doesn't smoke and seems to require very little maintenance other than annual oil changes and clean filters.
My Yanmar 2gm15 is 22 years old and starts every time, doesn't smoke and seems to require very little maintenance other than annual oil changes and clean filters.
The diesel mechanic says...
My friend, a diesel mechanic, uses a "rule of thumb" of "hours x 60" to estimate the number of miles that would be on the engine if it were on the road. Also keep in mind that a road diesel will go many more miles that a gasoline engine in a vehicle.
My friend, a diesel mechanic, uses a "rule of thumb" of "hours x 60" to estimate the number of miles that would be on the engine if it were on the road. Also keep in mind that a road diesel will go many more miles that a gasoline engine in a vehicle.
Great info, thanks--they sound bullet-proof (+)
Peter, thanks for the link--apologies, I should've checked the archives first, but I do appreciate the addt'l info. We're running a 35+ year old A4, but as we look to a possible future boat we're trying to learn some of the ins and outs of diesels. Thanks again--Bill
Peter, thanks for the link--apologies, I should've checked the archives first, but I do appreciate the addt'l info. We're running a 35+ year old A4, but as we look to a possible future boat we're trying to learn some of the ins and outs of diesels. Thanks again--Bill
Bill, how do you get 35 years out of an Atomic 4
Let me tell you my A4 story. Bought one new in my new 76 Ericson 29. While starting the return trip to Port Orchard from Desolation sound, the engine went bang-bang-bang. Pulled the cover only to see that the flywheel was cocked sideways. The crank was clearly broken. My future wife and I had to sail back to the San Juan Islands. If you know the area, you know how hard that is. We had to be back for our jobs. Finally, after dropping the hook to keep from being swept back to Canada by the tides and exhausted, we waved down a power boat for help. That was the only time I ever took a tow. (I've had boats many people wouldn't get into) Those nice folks towed us into Friday Harbor. I pulled the engine on the dock. I was POd at Universal because I assumed they had built a 4 cylinder Marine engine with only 3 main bearings. When I took it apart I found out what I was trusting. Yep, only TWO MAIN BEARINGS! Just like a model T. (I think)And they were so small, I could only pass three fingers through them. And the cost for ONE of them? More than the COMPLETE set of bearings for a big block Chevrolet! The cost of the crank? More than the best race car stuff at the time. That was in 1984. Got the whole thing on Video. (the story is much longer than this) The bright side? Traded that boat in for my Hunter 34 with my YANMAR that we have today. Love it.
Let me tell you my A4 story. Bought one new in my new 76 Ericson 29. While starting the return trip to Port Orchard from Desolation sound, the engine went bang-bang-bang. Pulled the cover only to see that the flywheel was cocked sideways. The crank was clearly broken. My future wife and I had to sail back to the San Juan Islands. If you know the area, you know how hard that is. We had to be back for our jobs. Finally, after dropping the hook to keep from being swept back to Canada by the tides and exhausted, we waved down a power boat for help. That was the only time I ever took a tow. (I've had boats many people wouldn't get into) Those nice folks towed us into Friday Harbor. I pulled the engine on the dock. I was POd at Universal because I assumed they had built a 4 cylinder Marine engine with only 3 main bearings. When I took it apart I found out what I was trusting. Yep, only TWO MAIN BEARINGS! Just like a model T. (I think)And they were so small, I could only pass three fingers through them. And the cost for ONE of them? More than the COMPLETE set of bearings for a big block Chevrolet! The cost of the crank? More than the best race car stuff at the time. That was in 1984. Got the whole thing on Video. (the story is much longer than this) The bright side? Traded that boat in for my Hunter 34 with my YANMAR that we have today. Love it.
Fred, wow, that's some story! (+)
We can only account for the last two years of that 35--we bought our boat from the second owners in Michigan in 2002. She's a 67 Alberg 30. The engine has not been rebuilt to my knowledge, though she did benefit from spending her entire life (until we came around) in the same slip up on Lake Michigan. We don't think our experience is very unique though Fred--our slip neighbors down on the Chesapeake have a mid '70s Columbia--he's told me some (now anyway) hysterical stories about running the engine with no oil, having the engine compartment flooded, etc. Still runs.... In any case, congrats on your Hunter! Bill
We can only account for the last two years of that 35--we bought our boat from the second owners in Michigan in 2002. She's a 67 Alberg 30. The engine has not been rebuilt to my knowledge, though she did benefit from spending her entire life (until we came around) in the same slip up on Lake Michigan. We don't think our experience is very unique though Fred--our slip neighbors down on the Chesapeake have a mid '70s Columbia--he's told me some (now anyway) hysterical stories about running the engine with no oil, having the engine compartment flooded, etc. Still runs.... In any case, congrats on your Hunter! Bill
Gee Fred
Sounds like oil starvation to me. Thousands of these still run fine after 20,30 even 40 years of service. It is widely considered the best gasoline marine inboard. If it was built so badly why were major boat manufacturers still dropping them in their boats up through the eighties? And don't tell me Pearson, C&C and others were checp. They used them because they were the best. I have built many race engines and have been inside many brit and american engines. An engine that runs fine for 8 years with no loss in oil pressure does not have a design flaw. Something else caused your problems not Universal. Tim
Sounds like oil starvation to me. Thousands of these still run fine after 20,30 even 40 years of service. It is widely considered the best gasoline marine inboard. If it was built so badly why were major boat manufacturers still dropping them in their boats up through the eighties? And don't tell me Pearson, C&C and others were checp. They used them because they were the best. I have built many race engines and have been inside many brit and american engines. An engine that runs fine for 8 years with no loss in oil pressure does not have a design flaw. Something else caused your problems not Universal. Tim
Gee Tim
I have built many race engines too. Running out of oil did not cause that crank to break. If it was low on oil it would have spun a bearing. Think about it. No, the crank was cracked from day one. The fault was 80% through the journal nearest the flywheel. The metal inside the crank at the crack was the same color as the crank casting. The only part that showed 'silver/white' metal was the only remaining part of the casting that was holding everything together until failure. Universals response? They examined the crank and couldn't find any sign of a defect. I've got the images on video tape. Anyone can spot the flaw. Oh, I will stick with my inference that these things were outdated and suitable for anchor duty. They were a flathead mill with 6.5:1 compression and burn GAS. It didn't even have a provision for an OIL FILTER! I bought mine because there was NOTHING else but a couple of klunky diesels available. Then along came Yanmar. I rest my case.
I have built many race engines too. Running out of oil did not cause that crank to break. If it was low on oil it would have spun a bearing. Think about it. No, the crank was cracked from day one. The fault was 80% through the journal nearest the flywheel. The metal inside the crank at the crack was the same color as the crank casting. The only part that showed 'silver/white' metal was the only remaining part of the casting that was holding everything together until failure. Universals response? They examined the crank and couldn't find any sign of a defect. I've got the images on video tape. Anyone can spot the flaw. Oh, I will stick with my inference that these things were outdated and suitable for anchor duty. They were a flathead mill with 6.5:1 compression and burn GAS. It didn't even have a provision for an OIL FILTER! I bought mine because there was NOTHING else but a couple of klunky diesels available. Then along came Yanmar. I rest my case.
Gee Tim, Fred, and all
Diesel, Gas. What a choice! Moyer Marine has kept A4s running longer than many Universals, Yanmars, or whatevers. It's the care that's taken by the owners. (I once had an outboard...) and yet there are people who still will not buy boats with inboards. Their boats, their choice. I sure am glad that Fred (? - the original post) made it back through to Friday Harbor, and that a nice and kind boater took him in tow, even though he seemed to not kinda like it in retospect. C'mon, folks, it's a motor. Take care of it, it'll take care of you. For as long as you shall cherish each other...... Stu PS in answer to the original question: 100 - 200 engine hours per year on an average boat
Diesel, Gas. What a choice! Moyer Marine has kept A4s running longer than many Universals, Yanmars, or whatevers. It's the care that's taken by the owners. (I once had an outboard...) and yet there are people who still will not buy boats with inboards. Their boats, their choice. I sure am glad that Fred (? - the original post) made it back through to Friday Harbor, and that a nice and kind boater took him in tow, even though he seemed to not kinda like it in retospect. C'mon, folks, it's a motor. Take care of it, it'll take care of you. For as long as you shall cherish each other...... Stu PS in answer to the original question: 100 - 200 engine hours per year on an average boat
And Stu, In what part of my story made you think
that I didn't hold a warm spot for the nice folks that towed us in to Friday Harbor? Or in the nine years that I owned that A4, what made you think I neglected it? The oil was NEVER any color but GOLDEN at anytime. You sound like Universal Motors. They said I must have flown off of a wave at high speed. The engine was never run at over 1800 rpm. According to the Universal dyno sheet that means it never put out more than 14hp. And that is at full throttle. I NEVER ran it at full throttle, not once, not even close. The crank shaft was DEFECTIVE and I have the PROOF to this day! Any other questions or just more aspersions? Oh, look below for the kind of work I do. Where do you hang your feather? And Bill, Thank You.
that I didn't hold a warm spot for the nice folks that towed us in to Friday Harbor? Or in the nine years that I owned that A4, what made you think I neglected it? The oil was NEVER any color but GOLDEN at anytime. You sound like Universal Motors. They said I must have flown off of a wave at high speed. The engine was never run at over 1800 rpm. According to the Universal dyno sheet that means it never put out more than 14hp. And that is at full throttle. I NEVER ran it at full throttle, not once, not even close. The crank shaft was DEFECTIVE and I have the PROOF to this day! Any other questions or just more aspersions? Oh, look below for the kind of work I do. Where do you hang your feather? And Bill, Thank You.
Still
Well it sounds like your crank may have been defective. It still doesn't represent the majority of A4s in service. 19 years is a long time to hold a grudge. Move on and go sailing. Tim
Well it sounds like your crank may have been defective. It still doesn't represent the majority of A4s in service. 19 years is a long time to hold a grudge. Move on and go sailing. Tim
Tim, I did, You didn't notice?
http://members.tscnet.com/pages/ss427/EpitomesRebuild.html Comments in favor of this engine are inevitable because of the large number of them produced. Sure, no mechanical device stays perfect forever. What happened to me is what insurance companies rely on, the filtering principal. What are the odds? 100% that SOMEONE will get a dud. That was me. The true test of a product is how a company backs its' duds. Enough said on that subject. Oh, have you ever looked at the way a Yanmar crank shaft is mounted? And it's FORGED STEEL. When I rebuilt mine the crank was still new. No wear. But hey, it's the major leagues, not stick ball.
http://members.tscnet.com/pages/ss427/EpitomesRebuild.html Comments in favor of this engine are inevitable because of the large number of them produced. Sure, no mechanical device stays perfect forever. What happened to me is what insurance companies rely on, the filtering principal. What are the odds? 100% that SOMEONE will get a dud. That was me. The true test of a product is how a company backs its' duds. Enough said on that subject. Oh, have you ever looked at the way a Yanmar crank shaft is mounted? And it's FORGED STEEL. When I rebuilt mine the crank was still new. No wear. But hey, it's the major leagues, not stick ball.
Atomic Fours
Hey, some people like A4’s. But, after all, some people like British cars
. Back in their time, A4’s were just about the only thing available that met the size, weight and power requirements for recreational sailing. Diesel at the time was over weight and underpowered. I have not had the most enjoyable time with A4s. Once, I had an engine fire on a charter boat halfway between Anacortes and Suicia Is. (It was actually the exhaust manifold catching the engine compartment insulation on fire.) I sailed for years on a boat equipped with an A4 that would only disappoint us when we most depended upon it, like the time it quit while we were going over the reef at Half Moon Bay. It would eat points, burn plugs and fall out of tune at only the most inopportune time (I have done tune-ups ten miles offshore). It did, however, last for years. It was 35 years old when the owner finally replaced it with a diesel. I’ve been told that the salty marine environment is especially harsh on a gas engine’s ignition system. Coupled with the fact that marine engines can sit for weeks at a time before they’re fired up. Our problems were mainly ignition with the occasional bad gas/ clogged fuel line problem. As for me, I went over to diesel’s dark side about ten years ago and never looked back.
Hey, some people like A4’s. But, after all, some people like British cars
. Back in their time, A4’s were just about the only thing available that met the size, weight and power requirements for recreational sailing. Diesel at the time was over weight and underpowered. I have not had the most enjoyable time with A4s. Once, I had an engine fire on a charter boat halfway between Anacortes and Suicia Is. (It was actually the exhaust manifold catching the engine compartment insulation on fire.) I sailed for years on a boat equipped with an A4 that would only disappoint us when we most depended upon it, like the time it quit while we were going over the reef at Half Moon Bay. It would eat points, burn plugs and fall out of tune at only the most inopportune time (I have done tune-ups ten miles offshore). It did, however, last for years. It was 35 years old when the owner finally replaced it with a diesel. I’ve been told that the salty marine environment is especially harsh on a gas engine’s ignition system. Coupled with the fact that marine engines can sit for weeks at a time before they’re fired up. Our problems were mainly ignition with the occasional bad gas/ clogged fuel line problem. As for me, I went over to diesel’s dark side about ten years ago and never looked back.George, you're bringing back my A4 bad memories
Like when I tuned it up with all new stuff and motored to Fisherman Bay on Lopez Isl. in the San Juans. At the narrow entrance, the engine sputtered and almost died before we could get inside and tied up at the marina. After 3 days work, it still wouldn't run smoothly when in gear and tied to the dock. A professional mechanic even replaced the coil. No luck. Well, the new points that were installed before starting the trip were replaced by another set and that didn't help. The only thing left was to sputter to Friday Harbor and buy A THIRD set of points. That did it. Those points were Delco and they lasted until we traded the boat. And I'm only lucky that boat didn't burn too because of the dry exhaust system. I remember that every time I get disgruntled over Yanmar exhaust elbow maintenance. Again, good post George.
Like when I tuned it up with all new stuff and motored to Fisherman Bay on Lopez Isl. in the San Juans. At the narrow entrance, the engine sputtered and almost died before we could get inside and tied up at the marina. After 3 days work, it still wouldn't run smoothly when in gear and tied to the dock. A professional mechanic even replaced the coil. No luck. Well, the new points that were installed before starting the trip were replaced by another set and that didn't help. The only thing left was to sputter to Friday Harbor and buy A THIRD set of points. That did it. Those points were Delco and they lasted until we traded the boat. And I'm only lucky that boat didn't burn too because of the dry exhaust system. I remember that every time I get disgruntled over Yanmar exhaust elbow maintenance. Again, good post George.
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