What is the current opinion of regel coating an older boat. I recently sawe an 1970's boat with a new Gel Coat and boy it looked just great. What's involved to do this? Is it expensive and or time consuming?? Tks Barrie
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Jeff D.
Awlgrip
Yes you can re-gel coat a boat but it would rare if that was what was done to the boat you saw. Most boats are redone using Awlgrip, Imron or a similar coating. It is best sprayed on and requires a sophisticted breathing apparatus. Not a job for a novice. Prices vary by region but the paint, while very expensive, is not the true cost. It is the prep work. Do not be suprised if a hull would cost $7-8K (that could be on the low side)while a deck would run much higher due to the extensive prep work. There are cheaper ways to go, it all depends upon how much you like the boat. I will be curious about anybody's thoughts or experience using gelcoat.
Yes you can re-gel coat a boat but it would rare if that was what was done to the boat you saw. Most boats are redone using Awlgrip, Imron or a similar coating. It is best sprayed on and requires a sophisticted breathing apparatus. Not a job for a novice. Prices vary by region but the paint, while very expensive, is not the true cost. It is the prep work. Do not be suprised if a hull would cost $7-8K (that could be on the low side)while a deck would run much higher due to the extensive prep work. There are cheaper ways to go, it all depends upon how much you like the boat. I will be curious about anybody's thoughts or experience using gelcoat.
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Peter
archives
I don't know what exactly goes into re-gel coating an old boat, but Denis Carriere recently had a post about re-coating a '70s boat. Have you checked out the archives?
I don't know what exactly goes into re-gel coating an old boat, but Denis Carriere recently had a post about re-coating a '70s boat. Have you checked out the archives?
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LaDonna Bubak - CatalinaOwners
Cost vs. Worth
Regelcoating is probably about as expensive as you think it is! I don't have a clue but could guess that it would cost more than an Awlgrip paint job, and that's a hefty bill. You'd really have to look at the cost/benefit ratio with a job like that. How long are you planning on keeping that boat? The longer you keep it, the better the value of whatever you decide to do. If you're planning on upgrading in a few years, it's probably a wiser choice to just use Island Girl or Poliglow (almost typed Poligrip!) to buff up the hull. LaDonna
Regelcoating is probably about as expensive as you think it is! I don't have a clue but could guess that it would cost more than an Awlgrip paint job, and that's a hefty bill. You'd really have to look at the cost/benefit ratio with a job like that. How long are you planning on keeping that boat? The longer you keep it, the better the value of whatever you decide to do. If you're planning on upgrading in a few years, it's probably a wiser choice to just use Island Girl or Poliglow (almost typed Poligrip!) to buff up the hull. LaDonna
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Jim willis
Gelcoat is cheaper and more forgiving
Rightly said, the cost of the prep for paint is where the most labor expense is. Why? It is becuase older gelcoat gets porous and wax etc it down in those pores. Any wax or silicone underneath and PAINT won't stick. The result is that extensive sanding way down (almost to the fibers) then primer/sealer then paint. The shine and toughness on awlgrip is great but the surface is very thin. Now, as you all (should) know (and if you don't you can see the Trilogy above) one way of getting a good surface on gelcoat is to actually add wax! Also, the solvents in gelcoat partially dissolves underlying gelcoat so that the bonding is perfect and any wax etc just rises to the surface. Gelcoat goes on thick, it is very forgiving and runs etc can be sanded out and buffed. Not always so with paint A regelcoating can be done much cheaper than with paint and the solvents (no toxic cyanate hardeners) are more benign although you still need a carbon filtered mask and no beard!. can be applied by spray or other methods. The best people to ask would be surboard types who actaully do lay the gelcoat on top of the board, unlide in boat manufacture where the gelcoat is layed up as the first layer in the mold. One last thing. Touch up. Imron wonderful to use (have used it on car parts) but does not feather edge well for touch up. Often completel recoaing of an area is best. Gelcoat repairs (for cracks etc ) can be made virtually undetectable. One thing that can be mentioned, however there are cheaper alternatives to the all out awlgrip typpe approach. Do it yourself prep, rolled on interluxe etc. Thanks JIM W
Rightly said, the cost of the prep for paint is where the most labor expense is. Why? It is becuase older gelcoat gets porous and wax etc it down in those pores. Any wax or silicone underneath and PAINT won't stick. The result is that extensive sanding way down (almost to the fibers) then primer/sealer then paint. The shine and toughness on awlgrip is great but the surface is very thin. Now, as you all (should) know (and if you don't you can see the Trilogy above) one way of getting a good surface on gelcoat is to actually add wax! Also, the solvents in gelcoat partially dissolves underlying gelcoat so that the bonding is perfect and any wax etc just rises to the surface. Gelcoat goes on thick, it is very forgiving and runs etc can be sanded out and buffed. Not always so with paint A regelcoating can be done much cheaper than with paint and the solvents (no toxic cyanate hardeners) are more benign although you still need a carbon filtered mask and no beard!. can be applied by spray or other methods. The best people to ask would be surboard types who actaully do lay the gelcoat on top of the board, unlide in boat manufacture where the gelcoat is layed up as the first layer in the mold. One last thing. Touch up. Imron wonderful to use (have used it on car parts) but does not feather edge well for touch up. Often completel recoaing of an area is best. Gelcoat repairs (for cracks etc ) can be made virtually undetectable. One thing that can be mentioned, however there are cheaper alternatives to the all out awlgrip typpe approach. Do it yourself prep, rolled on interluxe etc. Thanks JIM W
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Jeff D
T
the A-21, StarShine
correcting a non-gelcoat problem
My old A-21 came from the factory with a two color gel coat. Kind of an egg shell with forest green trim. Someone has applied a gloss white something (very hard) over the whole boat. When it gets scratched or wears (in the case of walk ways/cockpit floors) the orignal colors show thru. How can one get the extremely hard but very poorly applied new coating off so as to go back to the original colors? It may even be a form of re-gelcoat. Remember the boat is worth about $2-3K max.
My old A-21 came from the factory with a two color gel coat. Kind of an egg shell with forest green trim. Someone has applied a gloss white something (very hard) over the whole boat. When it gets scratched or wears (in the case of walk ways/cockpit floors) the orignal colors show thru. How can one get the extremely hard but very poorly applied new coating off so as to go back to the original colors? It may even be a form of re-gelcoat. Remember the boat is worth about $2-3K max.
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Jim willis
Gelcoat is softer but thicker
Awlgrip and other catalyzed (two part) polyurethane paints are VERY hard. IN fact if you have to wet sand (2000 grit) and polish p.urethane on a car, do it when the paint is only a few days old. After a week it is a lot more work! by contrast, gelcoat is pretty soft (walk on it and you leave scratches) but is so thick that you can sand and polish it easily and over and over. However, as I mentioned it sticks to underlying gelcoat in a chemical bonding process (urethane relies almost enirely on physical bonding due to sanding of the underlying surface) IN orther words. If you use urethane the prep work has to be perfect to avoid flaking. I often wonder whey acrylic alcquer is not used over gelcoat as it would bond much better (in theory) becuase of the similar solvents that dissolve it. Anybody? ALW
Awlgrip and other catalyzed (two part) polyurethane paints are VERY hard. IN fact if you have to wet sand (2000 grit) and polish p.urethane on a car, do it when the paint is only a few days old. After a week it is a lot more work! by contrast, gelcoat is pretty soft (walk on it and you leave scratches) but is so thick that you can sand and polish it easily and over and over. However, as I mentioned it sticks to underlying gelcoat in a chemical bonding process (urethane relies almost enirely on physical bonding due to sanding of the underlying surface) IN orther words. If you use urethane the prep work has to be perfect to avoid flaking. I often wonder whey acrylic alcquer is not used over gelcoat as it would bond much better (in theory) becuase of the similar solvents that dissolve it. Anybody? ALW
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Margie
Re-gelcoat
Don't put any of that quick fix garbage like Island girl or whatever someone is trying to sell you on your boat, you might as well smear mop-n-glow all over your boat, I have been doing gelcoat and awl grip work proffesionally for years and gelcoat is alot cheeper, less prep and last alot longer. I don't know what has been applied to your boat, talk to a local expert, it may come off with sanding, any boat that has been painted is usually to hide something or in the cases around our area lack of knowledge in gelcoat maintenance. Email me if you have questions, xtreemcomposites@yahoo.com I am a female business owner, we do boat restoration every day, we recently took a 1985 catalina 27 with a 12 year old paint job and made it look brand new, without painting or new gelcoat or smearing any of this other junk all over it. There is no quick fix, when you do it the right way. If the coating on your boat is white, it may be paint that was not prepped right, if it is clear try some straight amonia.
Don't put any of that quick fix garbage like Island girl or whatever someone is trying to sell you on your boat, you might as well smear mop-n-glow all over your boat, I have been doing gelcoat and awl grip work proffesionally for years and gelcoat is alot cheeper, less prep and last alot longer. I don't know what has been applied to your boat, talk to a local expert, it may come off with sanding, any boat that has been painted is usually to hide something or in the cases around our area lack of knowledge in gelcoat maintenance. Email me if you have questions, xtreemcomposites@yahoo.com I am a female business owner, we do boat restoration every day, we recently took a 1985 catalina 27 with a 12 year old paint job and made it look brand new, without painting or new gelcoat or smearing any of this other junk all over it. There is no quick fix, when you do it the right way. If the coating on your boat is white, it may be paint that was not prepped right, if it is clear try some straight amonia.
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Margie
gelcoat
I am right now re-gelcoating a 1971 glastron, and a 1978 Hunter interior and exterior, it is far less prep to gelcoat than paint, not to mention the cost of materals, the hard part is that most yards or boat shops don't spray gelcoat, I have boats come in from every surrounding state for us to shoot gel on, If the boat is gelcoat to start with, why cover it up with paint, paint is not as forgiving as gel, you can buy a gallon of any color gel for the cost of a quart of paint not to mention the cost of catylist and reducers, you still have to wet sand and buff no matter what you use afterwards to get a superior finish, when we finish a boat you can read the face of your watch from two feet away in the reflection. xtreemcomposites@yahoo.com
I am right now re-gelcoating a 1971 glastron, and a 1978 Hunter interior and exterior, it is far less prep to gelcoat than paint, not to mention the cost of materals, the hard part is that most yards or boat shops don't spray gelcoat, I have boats come in from every surrounding state for us to shoot gel on, If the boat is gelcoat to start with, why cover it up with paint, paint is not as forgiving as gel, you can buy a gallon of any color gel for the cost of a quart of paint not to mention the cost of catylist and reducers, you still have to wet sand and buff no matter what you use afterwards to get a superior finish, when we finish a boat you can read the face of your watch from two feet away in the reflection. xtreemcomposites@yahoo.com
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Jim willis
Thanks Margie
Glad to hear from the "horse's mouth" that regelcoating is the way to go. I only have experience with smaller repairs but lots of experience painting cars with acrylic, epoxy, polurethane etc. I have to exception to your remarks about IG products however! Mop n.glow is a water based acrylic. That is where all the other versions (Vertglass, Poliglow etc) came from but they kitchen floor treatments don't have the UV protection etc. IG products are of great variety, even a sealant for NEW gelcoat or paint. They are NOT acrylics but based upon completely different resins. For restoring older gelcoat, our approach is dissolve our the deep-seated oxidation and actually kill the oxidation process, while adding UV protection, color brightener, mildew protection etc. Then sealing with a synthetic wax/resin coating that shines without buffing and beads water for 2 years (my boat done in Feb 2001). This avoids all the compounding and polishing that will eventually drive people to get a new boat or come to you for new gelcoat! You will never have to strip the finish unless you wanted to paint the boat. Thanks Margie for some great input, but not all of us are charlatans! Regards JimW
Glad to hear from the "horse's mouth" that regelcoating is the way to go. I only have experience with smaller repairs but lots of experience painting cars with acrylic, epoxy, polurethane etc. I have to exception to your remarks about IG products however! Mop n.glow is a water based acrylic. That is where all the other versions (Vertglass, Poliglow etc) came from but they kitchen floor treatments don't have the UV protection etc. IG products are of great variety, even a sealant for NEW gelcoat or paint. They are NOT acrylics but based upon completely different resins. For restoring older gelcoat, our approach is dissolve our the deep-seated oxidation and actually kill the oxidation process, while adding UV protection, color brightener, mildew protection etc. Then sealing with a synthetic wax/resin coating that shines without buffing and beads water for 2 years (my boat done in Feb 2001). This avoids all the compounding and polishing that will eventually drive people to get a new boat or come to you for new gelcoat! You will never have to strip the finish unless you wanted to paint the boat. Thanks Margie for some great input, but not all of us are charlatans! Regards JimW
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