Raymarine Autopilot Problems (ST4000+)

[McPhee]

I have a Raymarine ST4000+ (I think) that is original to my 2005 Hunter 33-2. The autopilot seems hypersensitive and makes multiple corrections per second. Given how noisy this is, sitting and having a conversation is unreasonable.

I've reviewed the calibration and settings, and everything seems normal. I also tried changing the "Response" setting but it exhibits the same behavior. I've attached a video of the behavior. I'm going to update the electronics with an ITC-5 and i70s. I'm wondering instead if a new autopilot should be the first priority or if this is serviceable?

Video: autopilot.mp4

 

[JamesG161]

You must set the sea state via the display.
You have 3 programable states.
Example:
1 ) Smooth
2) 2-4 foot waves
3 ) 8 + waves

Jim...

 

[kappykaplan]

Does your setup include a rudder angle sensor? Is there anything metallic near the fluxgate compass?

 

[JamesG161]

When you set a new course , say 15°, does the AP calm down?

If No,

Is there anything metallic near the fluxgate compass?

Then I suspect that.

Jim..

 

[kloudie1]

Add a rudder position sensor.. then recalibrate and tune the response settings.
Metal or a magnet near the flux gate compass should be looked at too.

 

[Ward H]

First, be sure you sails are trimmed so you can steer with 1 finger on the wheel. The AP could be fighting poor sail trim.

If performance does not improve with proper sail trim you can follow the suggestions made by others.

And/Or
Consider the Raymarine EV-100 auto pilot. The 9 Axis Core Sensor and advanced software is much more advanced than the ST4000+ with it's fluxgate compass. While a rudder sensor will improve the ST4000+, I believe the EV-100 performs much better even before the rudder sensor is added.

The i70S display is pretty sweet, I have two, but I think I'd go with the EV-100 first, then add the i70S with iTC5.
If you have wind already, with the EV-100 AP and the iTC5 putting the wind data on the network you can sail to the wind vs just sailing to a heading. Pretty sweet.

Another thought,
With your wheel drive making that much noise it's probably time to open up the wheel and check the belt. It could be on it's way out.

 

[jaysweet]

I have a Raymarine ST4000+ (I think) that is original to my 2005 Hunter 33-2. The autopilot seems hypersensitive and makes multiple corrections per second. Given how noisy this is, sitting and having a conversation is unreasonable.

I've reviewed the calibration and settings, and everything seems normal. I also tried changing the "Response" setting but it exhibits the same behavior. I've attached a video of the behavior. I'm going to update the electronics with an ITC-5 and i70s. I'm wondering instead if a new autopilot should be the first priority or if this is serviceable?

Video: autopilot.mp4

I also have a 2005 ST4000+, and I agree: it really hunts much more than is desirable. And going downwind, it's bad enough that I tend to hand steer. I have no fix to offer in terms of settings, but I will say that mine was getting really squeaky, which was super annoying. I replaced it 2 years ago, and it's much, much quieter and less annoying. Still hunts, though. Good luck with your decision!

ST4000+: RIP

Took my folding wheel (w/autopilot) off and brought it home last weekend. It's a 2004 vintage Raymarine ST4000+ (MK2, I guess: gray) which has worked flawlessly for the past 17 or so years (3 on the hard), although it's always been squeaky from day one. I knew there was a crack in the dust cover...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[Tally Ho]

I opened the gearbox on my St4000+ wheel drive once…and dropped about 24 little nylon gears on my workbench

I managed to figure out how to put it all back together and after cleaning all of the parts, I lubricated it all and reassembled. Seemed like it quieted down after that.

I once put my laptop in a computer bag on the settee…and during a rough and rowdy sail, the computer bag fell off the settee, right over the bilge, which is where my compass sits… AP was acting all squirrelly until I figured out the laptop was messing with the compass…

You could also try swinging the compass. That has also solved some issues for me in the past.

Greg

 

[McPhee]

Hi everyone - Updating the thread. The fluxgate compass is under the port side of the aft-birth in my Hunter 33, and not near any electric cables or metal. Additionally, as far as I can tell, it has a rudder sensor that is within tolerance and hooked up correctly to the head unit at the helm. I made the choice to order the EV-100 pack. Hopefully, it'll end the hunting behavior. I'll have to put off the wind and ITC-5 upgrade for now.

 

[kappykaplan]

Hi everyone - Updating the thread.

Tks for letting us know.

 

[Ward H]

You won’t be sorry.

 

[BigEasy]

Note that the video discusses rebuild of the Raymarine 4000 wheel pilot, not the 4000+. The 4000 model is black with some metal components inside the wheel; the 4000+ is gray with all plastic components. The 4000 is actually more robust as compared to later model 4000+.....go figure! They both function similarly; however, there will be different repair procedures for one vs the other; if it is worth repairing. There is someone on the net who fabricates 3D printed replacement parts for the 4000+. I don't have his contact info readily available; however, he is probably mentioned in SBO archives. Also beware that if you purchase the new Raymarine Evolution (EV-100) wheel pilot, the computer, compass, drive motor, and control instrument have been redesigned & improved; however, the wheel unit is the exact same 4000+ plastic model.

 

[Tally Ho]

Note that the video discusses rebuild of the Raymarine 4000 wheel pilot, not the 4000+. The 4000 model is black with some metal components inside the wheel; the 4000+ is gray with all plastic components. The 4000 is actually more robust as compared to later model 4000+.....go figure! They both function similarly; however, there will be different repair procedures for one vs the other; if it is worth repairing. There is someone on the net who fabricates 3D printed replacement parts for the 4000+. I don't have his contact info readily available; however, he is probably mentioned in SBO archives. Also beware that if you purchase the new Raymarine Evolution (EV-100) wheel pilot, the computer, compass, drive motor, and control instrument have been redesigned & improved; however, the wheel unit is the exact same 4000+ plastic model.

The control head says 4000+


Greg

 

[McPhee]

Hey everyone! I've embarked on the installation of the Raymarine EV100 kit. My initial setup will follow the Basic System Example, except I already have the old rudder sensor compatible with the new system (see attached; pg. 21 in the ACU-100 Installation manual).

https://www.raymarine.com/en-us/our-products/boat-autopilots/autopilot-packs/ev-100-wheel-pilot
I'm really struggling with where to mount the ACU (actuator control unit), as well as the ITC-5. The helm station has room for the ACU-100, but my main struggle is it's hell to fish cables up and down the narrow stainless pipe. It took me about 2-hours to get the main SeatalkNG cable through there with soap, water, and fish tape (see attached).


The speed and depth transducer cables run through the transom behind the aft birth, but there's also no space to mount anything due to the holding tanks (see attached).



I think the only place to mount and run everything (which would make space in the stainless pipe by removing the leading power and transducer cables and leaving just the SeatalkNG cable) would be the backside port lazaret, which I can easily access from the transom space.


I could really use some advice from anybody who's done this or installed the ACU-100 on where I should mount and run my cables. I don't want to get too far into my weekly project without taking some tips.

 

[Tally Ho]

When I upgraded my old ST4000(+) to a ST6002, with a new Control unit, I put it in my lazzarette. Made cabling pretty easy and I can sit in the lazzarette and connect the cables, etc.

Mine is tucked up out of the weather, which would be a concern if it was too exposed.

Alternately, I have seen people mount them on a bulkhead in the aft berth opposite the lazzarette (at least on many boats). You can usually find some way to get cabling in there from the lazarette or elsewhere.

Greg

 

[McPhee]

Thanks, @Tally Ho, I think I'll go with the port side lazarette for now. I can always upgrade the weather sealing later to make sure it stays dry. Any tips on getting the gobs of silicone off that hole without cutting the wiring? I need to remove enough to allow the wire back through.

 

[Dalliance]

I installed the EV-100 auto helm, the i70s wind instrument and tri-data thru hull a couple years ago. The hardest part was figuring out where to put all components and how to fish the wires through. I’ve dealt with wires through a silicone glob before on another project and the only way I found to deal with it was to patiently pull the silicone out in bits with needle nose pliers.

For what it’s worth, I put the ACU on a bulkhead in my port side quarter berth and the i70s auto-helm display unit down in the port side coaming. Nothing to feed up through a little stainless pedestal guard tube. EV-1 sensor and iTC5 ended up midship out of sight above the hanging locker. Wind & tri-data display went into the cabintop bulk head. I have no pedestal mounted electronics. Exact locations are kind of moot because my H30 has a completely different layout from your H33.

My lazarette sometimes gets a bit of water in inside when I wash the cockpit and I just thought it best to keep the ACU and compass where I knew they would never be exposed to the elements and are least likely to be subjected to impacts. A not so water tight lazarette that I throw fenders, boat hooks, buckets, cleaning supplies and other gear into just didn’t seam like the right place to me.

 

[McPhee]

Hi again, gang! I'm having some trouble with the installation. Thanks in advance for continuing with me on this adventure.

First, the old Fluxgate compass is mounted at a 90-degree angle under the aft-birth.



I do have plenty of space here, including a vertical wall that runs port to starboard in that box:



But the manual for the EV1 is pretty specific that it must be mounted with a 5-degree roll and pitch, and it has to face forward (I think?):




This is one of the only places at least 3' from electrical and metal, which they also want for the EV1... :-( I was thinking since it can be mounted above the deck, perhaps sticking this in the port-side lazarette (see discussion above) might be a good plan, but I'm not sure if the stainless steel bimini mount and swim ladder will interfere with it.

Second, after running the lines into the transom space, I will use some stainless steel hose clamps and a metal bracket I fabricated to mount the ITC-5 and ACU-100 to the fiberglass rudder housing. This should keep my lines clean and in the same space, far from the new EV1 compass. As a backup plan in case any of you point out why this is a bad plan, I do have that unused space where the old fluxgate compass is where I can easily fish all the cables and mount the ITC-5 and ACU-100.



In summary, I think I have a few good options for mounting the ITC-5 and ACU-100 (i.e., a) under the aft-birth or b) onto the fiberglass rudder enclosure), but I'm really struggling with the EV-1 given the requirements of being far from metal, straight with the ship and having no roll or pitch. @Dalliance, when you mounted your EV-1 above the hanging locker is it also facing the bow? With the H33 layout, I'd have to mount it inside the locker somehow I think.

 

[Dalliance]

Hi again, gang! I'm having some trouble with the installation. Thanks in advance for continuing with me on this adventure.

First, the old Fluxgate compass is mounted at a 90-degree angle under the aft-birth.

View attachment 216801

I do have plenty of space here, including a vertical wall that runs port to starboard in that box:

View attachment 216802

But the manual for the EV1 is pretty specific that it must be mounted with a 5-degree roll and pitch, and it has to face forward (I think?):

View attachment 216803
View attachment 216804

This is one of the only places at least 3' from electrical and metal, which they also want for the EV1... :-( I was thinking since it can be mounted above the deck, perhaps sticking this in the port-side lazarette (see discussion above) might be a good plan, but I'm not sure if the stainless steel bimini mount and swim ladder will interfere with it.

Second, after running the lines into the transom space, I will use some stainless steel hose clamps and a metal bracket I fabricated to mount the ITC-5 and ACU-100 to the fiberglass rudder housing. This should keep my lines clean and in the same space, far from the new EV1 compass. As a backup plan in case any of you point out why this is a bad plan, I do have that unused space where the old fluxgate compass is where I can easily fish all the cables and mount the ITC-5 and ACU-100.

View attachment 216805

In summary, I think I have a few good options for mounting the ITC-5 and ACU-100 (i.e., a) under the aft-birth or b) onto the fiberglass rudder enclosure), but I'm really struggling with the EV-1 given the requirements of being far from metal, straight with the ship and having no roll or pitch. @Dalliance, when you mounted your EV-1 above the hanging locker is it also facing the bow? With the H33 layout, I'd have to mount it inside the locker somehow I think.

My EV-1 sensor is mounted on a transverse midship bulkhead facing forward. You can rotate the sensor in the bracket so it faces forward regardless of bracket angle. The requirements to be far from metal may be a bit overstated and are almost impossible to achieve on a small or medium size sailboat. Mine is no more than 3 ft from the base of the mast, but that also puts it near the boat’s center point. So minimum pitch, roll and yawl, which is what you want.

 

[McPhee]

A quick update - thanks to some help from @Dalliance, who was kind enough to inspect my install, the new autopilot is installed and mostly working. It's much quieter than the old one and has no trouble keeping course, and importantly, doesn't hunt. I used the same rudder sensor (because upon inspection it looked fine). The wheel drive was very easy to swap out.

I also installed a few i70s displays along with an ITC-5. I mounted everything in the port-side compartment underneath the aft-birth because the cables were easy to route there and it's protected from water.

One problem is my speed transducer isn't working. The wiring was in bad shape after pulling it, so I cut past the bad parts and crimped it (tried that twice) with some female disconnects but it's still not registering on the ITC-5. I have a work order in at the local marina but they're 4-weeks out so if anybody has any good ideas, lemme know.

I was considering that for the price they'll charge me to look at it (i.e., $160/hr labor + parts), I could probably replace the entire transducer and rerun the line through the PVC conduit from bow to aft easily. I was also considering the fact that once my GPS module is hooked up to my PICAN-M today, I may end up getting those NMEA2000 sentences from the GPS. The i70s seems pretty modular and I can make my own screens, so I can simply replace the analog speed with SOG or something:

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