peggie, first let me say that i have bought and read your book (very good info.) second, i have consulted you in plumbing the new phii head in my catalina 380. we use fresh water from the shower to flush. the intake hose is disconnected from the thru-hull, which remains closed. i notice when we flush, that real bad smeeling discharge trickles out from under the rim of the bowl. the vent line is clear. is there no safegaurd against cross contamination? the bowl setting remains on "dry". my question is this. Why does this head allow what appears to be sewage to enter the ports in the rim? thanks, robert taylor
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I doubt if it's sewage...
Although you disconnected the intake hose, I'd bet you ran some sea water through the toilet, if only to test it. And I suspect there's a low spot in the intake hose in which sea water is still sitting and has stagnated to the point of putrification...when you flush, even though you're only adding water to the bowl with the shower head, the toilet still trying to pull in flush water...which is why you see a trickle coming from the rim. I think just flushing out the intake hose and channel in the rim of the bowl with clean fresh water and vinegar will solve your problem...Stick the intake hose in a bucket of clean fresh water to which you've added a quart of white vinegar and pump it through the toilet. But even clean fresh water will stagnate and eventually start to stink...so when it does again, you'll have to do this again. That is, unless you want to solve the sea water intake odor problem a much easier way: Go back to using sea water to flush...but tee your your head intake line into the head sink drain line (or vice versa, it doesn't matter which thru-hull, as long as the toilet and the head sink drain use the same one). At the end of each weekend aboard, close the thru-hull, fill the sink with clean fresh water, flush the toilet...because the thru-hull is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the whole system--the sink drain, the toilet intake, the toilet pump and rim of the bowl, and the head discharge hose.
Although you disconnected the intake hose, I'd bet you ran some sea water through the toilet, if only to test it. And I suspect there's a low spot in the intake hose in which sea water is still sitting and has stagnated to the point of putrification...when you flush, even though you're only adding water to the bowl with the shower head, the toilet still trying to pull in flush water...which is why you see a trickle coming from the rim. I think just flushing out the intake hose and channel in the rim of the bowl with clean fresh water and vinegar will solve your problem...Stick the intake hose in a bucket of clean fresh water to which you've added a quart of white vinegar and pump it through the toilet. But even clean fresh water will stagnate and eventually start to stink...so when it does again, you'll have to do this again. That is, unless you want to solve the sea water intake odor problem a much easier way: Go back to using sea water to flush...but tee your your head intake line into the head sink drain line (or vice versa, it doesn't matter which thru-hull, as long as the toilet and the head sink drain use the same one). At the end of each weekend aboard, close the thru-hull, fill the sink with clean fresh water, flush the toilet...because the thru-hull is closed, the toilet will pull the water out of the sink, rinsing all the sea water out of the whole system--the sink drain, the toilet intake, the toilet pump and rim of the bowl, and the head discharge hose.
Sink outlet thruhull below waterline
Peggie: I just read your solution to the intake line problem and sounds simple. However, doesn't this require that the sink discharge thruhull is below the waterline to keep from sucking air during normal toilet and sink operation? My sink discharge is above the waterline so I don't think I can do this without a valve between the two lines which seems a bit complicated.
Peggie: I just read your solution to the intake line problem and sounds simple. However, doesn't this require that the sink discharge thruhull is below the waterline to keep from sucking air during normal toilet and sink operation? My sink discharge is above the waterline so I don't think I can do this without a valve between the two lines which seems a bit complicated.
Head intake thru-hull has to be below waterline...
And since, as long as the toilet and the head sink drain use the same thru-hull, it doesn't matter which one...wouldn't the simple solution be to reroute the head sink drain line to tee into the head intake line?
And since, as long as the toilet and the head sink drain use the same thru-hull, it doesn't matter which one...wouldn't the simple solution be to reroute the head sink drain line to tee into the head intake line?
What !!! and leave an unused thruhull!!! 
Sorry, I couldn't help that. On my boat I've done everything possible to avoid putting in new thruhulls and the thought of having an unused thruhull--well, that's just unthinkable! OK, here's another question, though. If the head intake line has a vented loop, wouldn't teeing into the first side of the loop mean you wouldn't be able to flush the toilet side of the intake loop? Or does pumping the toilet dry empty that side of the loop completely enough?
Sorry, I couldn't help that. On my boat I've done everything possible to avoid putting in new thruhulls and the thought of having an unused thruhull--well, that's just unthinkable! OK, here's another question, though. If the head intake line has a vented loop, wouldn't teeing into the first side of the loop mean you wouldn't be able to flush the toilet side of the intake loop? Or does pumping the toilet dry empty that side of the loop completely enough?
let me clarify
we live aboard. we are pumped and purged every 2 weeks. the FIRST thing i did was remove the intake and flush with water and vinegar, fearing that guests had tried to use the "flush" position. that is why i disconnected it. the intake hose is now purged, disconnected, plugged and vertical with no bends. there is a big difference between stagnant water and sewage. the toilet draws sewage through the rim when trying to pump in the "dry" position (not much, but some). per peggies instructions, i put the loop between the pump and the bowl. i originally had it between the thru hull and pump intake. tying in the sink drain will not work for us, because we do not want to close the thru hull to use fresh water....we want to use fresh water each time. we tried the marina water, and here in texas, it goes bad quick in the summer. we just want a toilet that doesn't dribble sewage through the rim. we never had this problem with the wilcox head-mate, and wondered if this is an isolated event, or is the raritan phii not a good toilet. thanks for the input though.
we live aboard. we are pumped and purged every 2 weeks. the FIRST thing i did was remove the intake and flush with water and vinegar, fearing that guests had tried to use the "flush" position. that is why i disconnected it. the intake hose is now purged, disconnected, plugged and vertical with no bends. there is a big difference between stagnant water and sewage. the toilet draws sewage through the rim when trying to pump in the "dry" position (not much, but some). per peggies instructions, i put the loop between the pump and the bowl. i originally had it between the thru hull and pump intake. tying in the sink drain will not work for us, because we do not want to close the thru hull to use fresh water....we want to use fresh water each time. we tried the marina water, and here in texas, it goes bad quick in the summer. we just want a toilet that doesn't dribble sewage through the rim. we never had this problem with the wilcox head-mate, and wondered if this is an isolated event, or is the raritan phii not a good toilet. thanks for the input though.
It's not sewage. Robert... (and the answer to yr question, Mark)
There's no way a toilet CAN recirculate anything from the head discharge into the intake. But left to sit and stagnate long enough, trapped sea water--especially if it's as foul as you indicate the water in your marina is--can look and smell like sewage...even worse. You said, "the FIRST thing i did was remove the intake and flush with water and vinegar..." Did you remove the hose from the toilet and flush out ONLY the hose? Or did you leave it connected to the toilet and pump the toilet to pull the clean water and vinegar through to flush out the whole system--hose, vented loop and channel in the bowl rim? 'Cuz if you just cleaned out the intake hose without also cleaning out pump, vented loop and lines to and from it, your problem has to be water that's still trapped in the vented loop line between the pump and the bowl. The PH II is an excellent toilet, btw...it's not the problem. Stagnant water trapped somewhere in it is. Mark, there shouldn't be a vented loop in the head intake line between the thru-hull and pump...it has to go between the pump and the bowl. If you put it between the thru-hull and the pump, it'll prevent the pump from priming whether any other line is teed into it or not.
There's no way a toilet CAN recirculate anything from the head discharge into the intake. But left to sit and stagnate long enough, trapped sea water--especially if it's as foul as you indicate the water in your marina is--can look and smell like sewage...even worse. You said, "the FIRST thing i did was remove the intake and flush with water and vinegar..." Did you remove the hose from the toilet and flush out ONLY the hose? Or did you leave it connected to the toilet and pump the toilet to pull the clean water and vinegar through to flush out the whole system--hose, vented loop and channel in the bowl rim? 'Cuz if you just cleaned out the intake hose without also cleaning out pump, vented loop and lines to and from it, your problem has to be water that's still trapped in the vented loop line between the pump and the bowl. The PH II is an excellent toilet, btw...it's not the problem. Stagnant water trapped somewhere in it is. Mark, there shouldn't be a vented loop in the head intake line between the thru-hull and pump...it has to go between the pump and the bowl. If you put it between the thru-hull and the pump, it'll prevent the pump from priming whether any other line is teed into it or not.
not stagnant water
i don't think you understand, peggy. i removed the hose from the thru hull. i pulled it out and put it in a mixture of water and vinegar. i pumped it untill the water coming out of the rim smelled like vinegar (it went through the siphon valve, hose, pump, and toilet rim). there is no stagnant anything in this system (my wife uses the head about 5 times a day). the hose has been disconnected from the thru hull for several weeks. the hose is still connected to the intake on the toilet, but the end that usually attaches to the thru hull is open to air. the smell from the rim is sewage. i think it may be a faulty seal or something. if there was no possible way the the head discharge could cross contaminate the intake, then why do you not suggest a direct hookup to the potable water supply for the intake. i am telling you....there is no stagnant water in any hose. i hope someone here can look for another solution. please remember this is the 5th boat i have lived on....i am not confused about the difference in sewage and stagnant water, nor am i unaware of how to purge the entire intake system. thanks anyway, but stagnant water is not an issue here.
i don't think you understand, peggy. i removed the hose from the thru hull. i pulled it out and put it in a mixture of water and vinegar. i pumped it untill the water coming out of the rim smelled like vinegar (it went through the siphon valve, hose, pump, and toilet rim). there is no stagnant anything in this system (my wife uses the head about 5 times a day). the hose has been disconnected from the thru hull for several weeks. the hose is still connected to the intake on the toilet, but the end that usually attaches to the thru hull is open to air. the smell from the rim is sewage. i think it may be a faulty seal or something. if there was no possible way the the head discharge could cross contaminate the intake, then why do you not suggest a direct hookup to the potable water supply for the intake. i am telling you....there is no stagnant water in any hose. i hope someone here can look for another solution. please remember this is the 5th boat i have lived on....i am not confused about the difference in sewage and stagnant water, nor am i unaware of how to purge the entire intake system. thanks anyway, but stagnant water is not an issue here.
Only one thing left to do, Robert...
Call Vic Willman at Raritan: 800-352-5630 x 6. 'Cuz a bad or worn out piston o-ring is the only possible way waste in the bowl can recirculate through the pump. Since yours is a new toilet, it didn't seem possible for that o-ring to be worn out, and a bad one is unheard of, but not impossible...And since it IS a new toilet, it's still under warranty. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Raritan's response to problems. You may not believe it, but stagnant water CAN smell exactly like sewage. Stu, the wet/dry valve has no purpose if no flush water is going through the pump...and if the only flush water is just going directly into the bowl from the shower head, changing the wet/dry valve to wet won't make a bit of difference.
Call Vic Willman at Raritan: 800-352-5630 x 6. 'Cuz a bad or worn out piston o-ring is the only possible way waste in the bowl can recirculate through the pump. Since yours is a new toilet, it didn't seem possible for that o-ring to be worn out, and a bad one is unheard of, but not impossible...And since it IS a new toilet, it's still under warranty. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by Raritan's response to problems. You may not believe it, but stagnant water CAN smell exactly like sewage. Stu, the wet/dry valve has no purpose if no flush water is going through the pump...and if the only flush water is just going directly into the bowl from the shower head, changing the wet/dry valve to wet won't make a bit of difference.
That's why I deleted the post
Peggie: I finally figured out what he was doing. Had to read it a couple of times. Finally printed it out and grok! Sure'd be easier to T into the sink outflow. But he covered that: "tying in the sink drain will not work for us, because we do not want to close the thru hull to use fresh water...." Seems a simple Y valve on the sink outlet would work in that case, as you recommended; probably easier than running the shower wand over the bowl. To each his own - had me stumped this afternoon. Stu
Peggie: I finally figured out what he was doing. Had to read it a couple of times. Finally printed it out and grok! Sure'd be easier to T into the sink outflow. But he covered that: "tying in the sink drain will not work for us, because we do not want to close the thru hull to use fresh water...." Seems a simple Y valve on the sink outlet would work in that case, as you recommended; probably easier than running the shower wand over the bowl. To each his own - had me stumped this afternoon. Stu
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