I have the standard Jabsco head in my Hunter 340 and after 5 years it is ready for replacement. I have read much about the quality of the PHII in previous postings and in Peggy's book. I am definitely incliled to go with that, but my wife would really like me to install an electric head. If I do electric I will go with the SeaEra, but frankly I am hoping to convince my wife that the PHII is still the way to go - if in fact it really is which is what causes me to write this post. I already completely understand the PHII is much better built than the Jabsco, but what I don't know is what makes folks like it as much as they do. I have read that the changeover has been great for everyone - but why? What makes the PHII so good from an operational perspective? What do you like about it, the operations, etc.? If you could have either the PHII or the electric SeaEra would you still go with the PHII? If so, why? Any feedback and personal experience would be greatly appreciated before "we" make the decision and I have to install it. Thanks!!!! Rob
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Raritan PHII - From the user's point of view
We replaced our Jabsco with a PHII this year. I didn't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, I actually thought it was an excuse for another boat project - like there aren't enough already. Was I wrong. Stickly speaking from a user's point of view (vs. the one who has to fix it.)-- it's well worth it. You don't dread "using the facilities" - the bowl empties every time. It's not as quiet as the Jabsco, you do get some suction sounds (but I think that's because there is actually suction.) One note - we did find that when we pumped the bowl completely dry, which you can actually do - we were getting a bit of "head smell." So now we put a tiny amount of water in the bottom of the bowl and that's taken care of the problem. We have had NO leaks, which makes the captain happy. Sorry, no experience with the electric one you are looking at. Good luck with your decision, anything (except a bucket) will be an improvement. Pam 1st and Last Mate Cynosure
We replaced our Jabsco with a PHII this year. I didn't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, I actually thought it was an excuse for another boat project - like there aren't enough already. Was I wrong. Stickly speaking from a user's point of view (vs. the one who has to fix it.)-- it's well worth it. You don't dread "using the facilities" - the bowl empties every time. It's not as quiet as the Jabsco, you do get some suction sounds (but I think that's because there is actually suction.) One note - we did find that when we pumped the bowl completely dry, which you can actually do - we were getting a bit of "head smell." So now we put a tiny amount of water in the bottom of the bowl and that's taken care of the problem. We have had NO leaks, which makes the captain happy. Sorry, no experience with the electric one you are looking at. Good luck with your decision, anything (except a bucket) will be an improvement. Pam 1st and Last Mate Cynosure
Wait a minute!
Is this an "infomercial?" I must say, this sounds just too much like an advertisement or endorsement of a product than a genuine requrest for info. Have either of these "members" ever posted anything else? I searched, and I don't think so - but I'm open, if someone indicates otherwise.
Is this an "infomercial?" I must say, this sounds just too much like an advertisement or endorsement of a product than a genuine requrest for info. Have either of these "members" ever posted anything else? I searched, and I don't think so - but I'm open, if someone indicates otherwise.
It's a legitimate inquiry
I've dealt with Raritan for nearly 20 years...neither they nor any of their dealers would ever even THINK of trolling discussion boards. And I recognize "Rob in Alameda" and the boat name Cynosure. It's yours I don't recognize!
There are quite a few people who post here without logging in (I don't if I'm on a computer other than my own...I just fill in my name), or ever even registering. That prob'ly explains why neither of these posters turned up in a search.
I've dealt with Raritan for nearly 20 years...neither they nor any of their dealers would ever even THINK of trolling discussion boards. And I recognize "Rob in Alameda" and the boat name Cynosure. It's yours I don't recognize!
There are quite a few people who post here without logging in (I don't if I'm on a computer other than my own...I just fill in my name), or ever even registering. That prob'ly explains why neither of these posters turned up in a search.
I installed a PHII earlier this year
instead of rebuilding the old Groco head. I have been very pleased with it - we got the larger HB size which is nice (I really don't know how women take care of the paperwork in the tiny bowls of regular size heads). With three daughters and a wife and the copious amounts of toilet paper THEY seem to require, I have yet to have a clog. The downside of having all those gals aboard is that I am on a first name basis with the guys at the pumpout.
instead of rebuilding the old Groco head. I have been very pleased with it - we got the larger HB size which is nice (I really don't know how women take care of the paperwork in the tiny bowls of regular size heads). With three daughters and a wife and the copious amounts of toilet paper THEY seem to require, I have yet to have a clog. The downside of having all those gals aboard is that I am on a first name basis with the guys at the pumpout.
Amazed...
Jviss, I am amazed by your post. I also don't want to see company trolling, but how you could think my very legitimate quesion is planted from Raritan is beyond me. I own a Hunter 340 which I sail on SF Bay and I have been registered on the specific hunter.owners site (including making several posting) for over 3 years - and I was logged in when I wrote the post. Now back to my question. Our boat has a Jabsco head that is 5 years old and about ready for replacement. If you search the archives you won't find much that indicates WHY the PHII is considerd to be so good. There are certainly lots of posts that indicate folks are happy with it - but not WHY they are happy with it. My wife wants me to buy and install an electric head and I'm not anxious to do this. I've done all the basic product research and narrowed down the purchase to the 2 units I specified. But again, the manuals, specs, etc, don't give actual user feedback about how well (or not) they actually work. I am hoping to receive this type of feedback from my post which I then hope will help us make a final decision. p.s. I really do own Peggy's book too
Jviss, I am amazed by your post. I also don't want to see company trolling, but how you could think my very legitimate quesion is planted from Raritan is beyond me. I own a Hunter 340 which I sail on SF Bay and I have been registered on the specific hunter.owners site (including making several posting) for over 3 years - and I was logged in when I wrote the post. Now back to my question. Our boat has a Jabsco head that is 5 years old and about ready for replacement. If you search the archives you won't find much that indicates WHY the PHII is considerd to be so good. There are certainly lots of posts that indicate folks are happy with it - but not WHY they are happy with it. My wife wants me to buy and install an electric head and I'm not anxious to do this. I've done all the basic product research and narrowed down the purchase to the 2 units I specified. But again, the manuals, specs, etc, don't give actual user feedback about how well (or not) they actually work. I am hoping to receive this type of feedback from my post which I then hope will help us make a final decision. p.s. I really do own Peggy's book too
Search
I just did a quick search for myself in the owner database and I only showed up when I used my last name - so I guess it makes sense that you might think I was making this up. Rob McClain s/v Dream Quest
I just did a quick search for myself in the owner database and I only showed up when I used my last name - so I guess it makes sense that you might think I was making this up. Rob McClain s/v Dream Quest
Happy with the Electirc PHII BUT
I would think twice about purchasing an electric head again... We have used several heads over the years and we have experienced problems completely emptying the bowl when solid waste (I think you understand) is in the bowl with other brands... I had great reports and experiences with the Raritan PHII head... So when we purchase Sea Dragon with its leaky, wimpy head, I decided to go with the electric PHII. The logic was that our children, then too young to operate the pump arm, would be able to operate the Raritain without adult help... It worked (and still works) well, my only negative observations are its massive energy consumption for one. And second, on several occasions I had to convert it to manual, a simple task, to clear the bowl. The electric motor simply does not work as well as the “old” arm. As the children have gotten bigger we no longer use the electric feature unless we have guest on board with smaller children. This is partly because of how easy it is to operate the unit manually and partly becuase of how easy it is tooperate. In my opinion, this is not the case with other manual units we have had/used on our and other’s boats. Bottom line, if it were me I would not pay the additional purchase price and hassle of installing the electric unit. I do not know why your wife is asking about an electric unit. But if it is because some of the units she has used are a pain to operate, I suggest you try and find a unit is operation that you can try…. For what it is worth.
I would think twice about purchasing an electric head again... We have used several heads over the years and we have experienced problems completely emptying the bowl when solid waste (I think you understand) is in the bowl with other brands... I had great reports and experiences with the Raritan PHII head... So when we purchase Sea Dragon with its leaky, wimpy head, I decided to go with the electric PHII. The logic was that our children, then too young to operate the pump arm, would be able to operate the Raritain without adult help... It worked (and still works) well, my only negative observations are its massive energy consumption for one. And second, on several occasions I had to convert it to manual, a simple task, to clear the bowl. The electric motor simply does not work as well as the “old” arm. As the children have gotten bigger we no longer use the electric feature unless we have guest on board with smaller children. This is partly because of how easy it is to operate the unit manually and partly becuase of how easy it is tooperate. In my opinion, this is not the case with other manual units we have had/used on our and other’s boats. Bottom line, if it were me I would not pay the additional purchase price and hassle of installing the electric unit. I do not know why your wife is asking about an electric unit. But if it is because some of the units she has used are a pain to operate, I suggest you try and find a unit is operation that you can try…. For what it is worth.
Hey Rob,
...you seem like a nice, genuine guy. Sorry about my note. I was just as amazed as you were, that someone would write saying their marine head was 5 years old and so was ready for replacement. I don't have a Jabsco, but if after 5 years they are shot, they must really suck! I've had a kind of ongoing disagreement with Peggy over this concept of very short service life of inexpensive heads. In particular, others have asked questions about the W-C Head Mate, which is what I have on my C36, and have been told that it is beyond its service life and should be replaced because it's an inexpensive head. There is no logic in it, as far as I can tell. Mine is 22 years old, has maybe been rebuilt once, maybe not. When I bought the boat 6 years ago it came with a rebuild kit that I have never used. I just flush this thing, with seawater only, and it works. The only thing we put in it besides #1, #2, a little paper and seawater is Thetford's holding tank treatment. I DO make sure it is flushed thoroughly. Use the boat almost every weekend, at least two full weeks of cruising a year, and that's it. Knock wood.
...you seem like a nice, genuine guy. Sorry about my note. I was just as amazed as you were, that someone would write saying their marine head was 5 years old and so was ready for replacement. I don't have a Jabsco, but if after 5 years they are shot, they must really suck! I've had a kind of ongoing disagreement with Peggy over this concept of very short service life of inexpensive heads. In particular, others have asked questions about the W-C Head Mate, which is what I have on my C36, and have been told that it is beyond its service life and should be replaced because it's an inexpensive head. There is no logic in it, as far as I can tell. Mine is 22 years old, has maybe been rebuilt once, maybe not. When I bought the boat 6 years ago it came with a rebuild kit that I have never used. I just flush this thing, with seawater only, and it works. The only thing we put in it besides #1, #2, a little paper and seawater is Thetford's holding tank treatment. I DO make sure it is flushed thoroughly. Use the boat almost every weekend, at least two full weeks of cruising a year, and that's it. Knock wood.
Buying a head
I completely agree that buying a new head after only 5 years seems crazy! I am faced with either buying another $62 service kit or just getting a new head. I rebuilt it 2 years ago at a price of about $52. If I rebuild it again that means I've put the cost of a new one into a few washers contained in 2 silly rebuild kits. When you look at new heads in stores they simply have a few on the shelf and that makes the purchase a complete guess. We actually wish we could try a few, like SeaDragon recomended, but there are no places to do that in this area unless I walk the docks and ask people if I can try out their head Oh well - even though it's a head it's still a boat project and fun to work on - guess I just love boats way too much...
I completely agree that buying a new head after only 5 years seems crazy! I am faced with either buying another $62 service kit or just getting a new head. I rebuilt it 2 years ago at a price of about $52. If I rebuild it again that means I've put the cost of a new one into a few washers contained in 2 silly rebuild kits. When you look at new heads in stores they simply have a few on the shelf and that makes the purchase a complete guess. We actually wish we could try a few, like SeaDragon recomended, but there are no places to do that in this area unless I walk the docks and ask people if I can try out their head
Oh well - even though it's a head it's still a boat project and fun to work on - guess I just love boats way too much...
You have great luck
After eight years: 1. rebuilt head 2 years ($60) 2. replaced entire pump assembly 4 years ($119) 3. replaced entire head 6 years ($119 - on sale) We have the same head, jvss, WC Head Mate. Same use you have, once a week sailing, two week trips, gets lotsa use. Good luck on you, but I must admit that while I like the head and it works just fine, all I'm getting out of ours is two years. I keep it and replace it because changing the hoses would be more than I want or need to do. Stu
After eight years: 1. rebuilt head 2 years ($60) 2. replaced entire pump assembly 4 years ($119) 3. replaced entire head 6 years ($119 - on sale) We have the same head, jvss, WC Head Mate. Same use you have, once a week sailing, two week trips, gets lotsa use. Good luck on you, but I must admit that while I like the head and it works just fine, all I'm getting out of ours is two years. I keep it and replace it because changing the hoses would be more than I want or need to do. Stu
Head Replacement
What about the Groco Model HF head? The PHII's handle intrudes rudely into the space of the head on my C36. Some have reversed the base to put he handle next to the bulkhead, instead of by the sink, but the plumbing becomes a nightmare to do this. Does anyone have any experience with the HF unit? I too want to replace the 13+ year old Jabsco.
What about the Groco Model HF head? The PHII's handle intrudes rudely into the space of the head on my C36. Some have reversed the base to put he handle next to the bulkhead, instead of by the sink, but the plumbing becomes a nightmare to do this. Does anyone have any experience with the HF unit? I too want to replace the 13+ year old Jabsco.
My $.02 worth manual vs. electric
The manual PH II has been consistently rated the best manual toilet <$500 for nearly 3 decades. However, putting a motor on it turns an outstanding manual toilet into a poor excused for an electric toilet. The ONLY thing the motor does is replace the pump handle...it's still a manual toilet, but being pumped a lot faster and with a much shorter stroke than pumping manually, which makes it a lot less efficient. It also draws far more power than macerating electric toilets, and costs more. Many people have gotten so fed up with the motor that they've converted the toilet back to manual. So if you want a manual toilet, the PH II--or the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base to fit in a tighter space--is an excellent choice. What makes it one? A more powerful pump than the Jabsco, Headmate or Groco...reliablity, durability, and an average lifespan of more than 20 years if it's just kept lubricated and rebuilt every 5-6 years. If you want the "push button convenience" of an electric toilets, buy one that's designed to BE an electric toilet, not a "hybrid." In which case, the Raritan SeaEra is the best (most reliable/durable/trouble free) in its class.
The manual PH II has been consistently rated the best manual toilet <$500 for nearly 3 decades. However, putting a motor on it turns an outstanding manual toilet into a poor excused for an electric toilet. The ONLY thing the motor does is replace the pump handle...it's still a manual toilet, but being pumped a lot faster and with a much shorter stroke than pumping manually, which makes it a lot less efficient. It also draws far more power than macerating electric toilets, and costs more. Many people have gotten so fed up with the motor that they've converted the toilet back to manual. So if you want a manual toilet, the PH II--or the PHC, which is the same pump, but on a compact base to fit in a tighter space--is an excellent choice. What makes it one? A more powerful pump than the Jabsco, Headmate or Groco...reliablity, durability, and an average lifespan of more than 20 years if it's just kept lubricated and rebuilt every 5-6 years. If you want the "push button convenience" of an electric toilets, buy one that's designed to BE an electric toilet, not a "hybrid." In which case, the Raritan SeaEra is the best (most reliable/durable/trouble free) in its class.
W/C Head rebuild
What seems to go first is the seal on the plunger inside the pump chamber on the other end of the pump handle. This is a green-ish seal on the disk of the pump, and it makes all the suction and pump out. Wouldn't it be great if they would just make these little buggers with a simple twist-off head on the pump so you could get access to replacing it easily. Like that might ever happen. There's a real name for it, but I don't have the exploded parts diagram handy. It's what makes the whole pump work. That's really all that's inside. Stu
What seems to go first is the seal on the plunger inside the pump chamber on the other end of the pump handle. This is a green-ish seal on the disk of the pump, and it makes all the suction and pump out. Wouldn't it be great if they would just make these little buggers with a simple twist-off head on the pump so you could get access to replacing it easily. Like that might ever happen. There's a real name for it, but I don't have the exploded parts diagram handy. It's what makes the whole pump work. That's really all that's inside. Stu
Raritan PHII
Well folks, I'll have to admit that I'm a factory guy (Raritan), but I don't consider myself to be a troll. The basic advantage of the PHII over other manual piston-pump toilets, such as the Jabsco or the Head-Mate is the diameter of the piston that goes up and down. I hear people talking about a "plunger" - there's no such animal! A plunger is used to clear a clog in a household toilet; it has no place on a boat (unless you're a trumpet or trombone player and play your instrument while on the boat, using the plunger as a mute for your horn). In a pump toilet, it's called a "piston". Anyway, the diameter of the piston of the PHII is 2 1/2 inches. The diameter of the piston of most other manual toilets is 1 3/4". Now this doesn't sound like much of a difference, does it? However, given the same length of stroke up and down, for demonstration purposes we'll say 2 1/2 inches for each head that we're considering. When you calculate the cubic inch capacity (displacement) of the PHII with a 2 1/2" diameter piston, it comes out to a little over 12 cubic inches. If you do the same calculation for a pump with a 1 3/4" diameter piston, with the same 2 1/2" stroke, the cubic inch capacity is only 6 cubic inches. So, to put that all into English, the PHII will pump twice as much per stroke, as it's competitors will. Adding the lever-type handle, there isn't as much actual effort required. So, in a nutshell, you only have to pump half as many times to flush it, and your arm doesn't get as tired. Plus, with the lever handle, you don't have to bend over as far, with your nose practically in the bowl, while you're pumping it.
Well folks, I'll have to admit that I'm a factory guy (Raritan), but I don't consider myself to be a troll. The basic advantage of the PHII over other manual piston-pump toilets, such as the Jabsco or the Head-Mate is the diameter of the piston that goes up and down. I hear people talking about a "plunger" - there's no such animal! A plunger is used to clear a clog in a household toilet; it has no place on a boat (unless you're a trumpet or trombone player and play your instrument while on the boat, using the plunger as a mute for your horn). In a pump toilet, it's called a "piston". Anyway, the diameter of the piston of the PHII is 2 1/2 inches. The diameter of the piston of most other manual toilets is 1 3/4". Now this doesn't sound like much of a difference, does it? However, given the same length of stroke up and down, for demonstration purposes we'll say 2 1/2 inches for each head that we're considering. When you calculate the cubic inch capacity (displacement) of the PHII with a 2 1/2" diameter piston, it comes out to a little over 12 cubic inches. If you do the same calculation for a pump with a 1 3/4" diameter piston, with the same 2 1/2" stroke, the cubic inch capacity is only 6 cubic inches. So, to put that all into English, the PHII will pump twice as much per stroke, as it's competitors will. Adding the lever-type handle, there isn't as much actual effort required. So, in a nutshell, you only have to pump half as many times to flush it, and your arm doesn't get as tired. Plus, with the lever handle, you don't have to bend over as far, with your nose practically in the bowl, while you're pumping it.
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