Raritan Ph-II head - stuck inlet ball

[Al - s/v Persephone]

About 5 years ago, I purchased and installed a Ph-II upgrade kit - a decision I certainly don't regret.

Unfortunately, after just splashing my boat for the season, I discovered a blocked seawater inlet due to the little spring-loaded inlet ball (part # 1201) being seized inside the inlet body.

I've as yet been unable to dislodge it, and have applied increasing levels of force to drive it up and out. I'm at the point where I'll have to take the entire pump assembly off to invert it so as to be able to drive down into the seawater inlet port with a hammer and drift pin.

Give the kind of force it appears I'll have to apply, I'm afraid I'll crack the molded body of an otherwise perfectly good pump assembly.

Has anyone ever run into this problem?

The instruction manual says:

Water not being drawn in
• Check Ball Stuck - Shutoff seacock and remove intake hose
Using an eraser end of pencil be sure check ball is
moving freely

which would seem to indicate that my problem is not typical.

I can't imagine what would have caused such a strong seizing-up.

Anyone??

Al - s/v Persephone

 

[woodster]

you might need to drink a cuppa java and think about what you are doing with that hammer and drift pin i am thinking that you are fixing to buy another new ph-II upgrade kit via damage just be patient and maybe peggy will come along and tell what to do about this

enjoy the java

 

[Stu Jackson]

Or call Raritan. I hear they're great folks to work with.

Many folks post questions on forums like this when they could just as well call the manufacturer.

Good luck.

We have a PHII, never had this issue in salt water. I T'd the inlet into the head sink drain, too, for the last flush before I leave the boat. That plus Odorlos, no issues.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I just posted this reply to you on cruisers.com:

t's more common than you think, mostly on boats in salt water on which the salt water hasn't been rinsed out before the boat sits and/or the toilet isn't kept well lubricated. If you disconnect the inlet hose from the seacock, stick it in a bucket of clean fresh water and flush the whole bucketful to rinse the seawater and salt out of the toilet before you lay up this fall, you shouldn't have this problem next spring.

Poking the ball with a pencil eraser is usually all it takes to free it up.Once you've done that, stick your intake hose in a buck of clean water to rinse the salt out of the system. If the mineral buildup is severe, clearing it out may require more drastic action.

The PH II should be rebuilt about every 5-6 years...yours is due. The correct rebuild kit for PH IIs mfr'd after 6/92 is PHIICRK...the ones made before that use a different kit (PHIIRK). Be sure you get the right one because about half the parts in each kit are not interchangeable. A single use tube of SupeLube thick Teflon grease is included in the kits...use ALL of it--squirt it into the pump, then pump a few times to spread it all over the inside of the pump cylinder. You'll be good to go for a season. Next spring--and every spring--lube it again with the same stuff. Ace Hardware carries it. A full tube of it will last you for years and is also good for lubing y-valves, pumps, winches and anything else that stays wet a lot.

If you can't free up the ball, call Raritan tech support: 800-352-5630.

 

[Al - s/v Persephone]

Thanks, Peggy.

It was your recommendation that led me to buy the Ph-II upgrade kit for my stock Thetford head (whose toilet bowl was the best part of it <g>). I've been _very_ pleased with the result until now.

I've left the intake cylinder full of vinegar overnight to see if any salt (which isn't visible) might be the problem

After 5 years of flawless performance I'm otherwise clueless how a perfectly working ball check-valve could end up over a winter lay-up with the ball appearing to have been jammed down with such force (much more than the wimpy little spring could provide).

If it wasn't our fifth yearly over-wintering, I'd almost suspect a large difference between the thermal expansion (contraction) coefficients of the ball and body materials shrinking the ball enough to let it descend into the opening on a particularly cold night and get stuck when the temperature rose.

That, however, seems pretty improbable.

Replacing an entire otherwise-perfectly-working Ph-II conversion unit because of this stuck intake ball seems ridiculous.

 

[Sefuller]

We had the same problem

a couple of winters ago. In our case the problem was bad winterization on my part, leaving some water in the pump. When the water froze it forced the ball down. I was able to dislodge it by taking it apart, turning it upside down and tapping it out with a ratchet extension. As I recall it took more than a light tap, but it did come out and everything worked fine once I had it back together and lubed properly. I called Raritan at the time and they were indeed very helpful.

Scott

 

[woodster]

if one must drive the ball back out i would suggest you use a maple wooden dowel rather than a metal drift ...less chance of scoring the ball that way ..it really no big deal as you can buy a new ball but then you have to go through the motions of doing so and that can be about a weeks wait is some cases ...just a suggestion not implying that the other way is wrong

 

[Maine Sail]

a couple of winters ago. In our case the problem was bad winterization on my part, leaving some water in the pump. When the water froze it forced the ball down. I was able to dislodge it by taking it apart, turning it upside down and tapping it out with a ratchet extension. As I recall it took more than a light tap, but it did come out and everything worked fine once I had it back together and lubed properly. I called Raritan at the time and they were indeed very helpful.

Scott

Bingo. I had this happen on a customers boat due to what I can only assume was a bad winterization. There was no AF at all. Owner had a rebuild kit so I drilled the ball carefully then put a Sheetrock screw into it and pulled.. Rebuilt the head and it is still going strong... Ball was likely driven into pump body by frozen water.. Lucky for my owner nothing else gave...

 

[DannyS]

Funny! I just had this happen to me this morning! We splashed our boat yesterday, spent the night onboard last night and found the head wouldn't draw in freshwater. Found the ball stuck just as you did. I was able to pull the hose and push the ball up from underneath. I also had a small amount of water above the ball and I too, made the deduction that the water was leftover from last fall which froze and pushed the ball down. It was even a bit deformed so I'll be ordering a rebuild kit to replace the ball. I'm about due anyway. Good to hear I was on the right track with my sleuthing and will do a better job next fall with my winterization.

 

[Sefuller]

In my case, the winterization mistake I made was to only pour anti-freeze into the bowl and pump it through. Although I disconnected the intake hose from the thru hull and pumped until nothing more came out, there was still water in the pump body. The proper way is to disconnect the intake hose from the thru hull (or sink drain if that's your system) and stick it in the bottle of anti-freeze then pump that through.

 

[Maine Sail]

In my case, the winterization mistake I made was to only pour anti-freeze into the bowl and pump it through. Although I disconnected the intake hose from the thru hull and pumped until nothing more came out, there was still water in the pump body. The proper way is to disconnect the intake hose from the thru hull (or sink drain if that's your system) and stick it in the bottle of anti-freeze then pump that through.

Bingo!

 

[DannyS]

In my case, the winterization mistake I made was to only pour anti-freeze into the bowl and pump it through. Although I disconnected the intake hose from the thru hull and pumped until nothing more came out, there was still water in the pump body. The proper way is to disconnect the intake hose from the thru hull (or sink drain if that's your system) and stick it in the bottle of anti-freeze then pump that through.

You and me both!

 

[Al - s/v Persephone]

Thanks a lot, guys.

Scott and Woody's problem sounds very likely to be mine.

Mainesail's analysis of cause sounds (as usual) to be right on target, too, as I only drained the inlet hose and fed antifreeze into the bowl. After getting away with that (sloppy) practice for 4 years, on the 5th year I got caught.

Thanks, again, guys. And after a bit of re-think, I'll take Woody's dowel advice.

Al - s/v Persephone

 

[Stu Jackson]

The proper way is to disconnect the intake hose from the thru hull (or sink drain if that's your system) and stick it in the bottle of anti-freeze then pump that through.

In that case, just pour it into the sink.

 

[Sefuller]

Got me Stu!

My system isn't set up that way and I clearly didn't think that one through all the way before posting

 

[Al - s/v Persephone]

It took a "little tap" with a 5lb sledge-hammer on a 3/8" bolt to do it, but the ball is now out and seems to be functioning OK.

Yet another example of the triumph of brute force over intellect <g>.

Seems appropriate after getting caught taking a sloppy "short-cut" to my winterizing.

Thanks for all the help, folks.

Al - s/v Persephone

 

[DannyS]

Another way to do it without smacking it with a hammer (like I did) would be to use a C-clamp and a thin block of wood or other way of supporting the top of the clamp. I thought of this after reading and posting earlier responses. First, remove the hose under the stuck ball. You need to unsrew the clamp enough to get the screw portion up inside the chamber to where the foot of the screw is pressing up on the ball. Then, position the block of wood on top of the chamber and place the top of the C-clamp on the block. Then tighten the clamp until the ball pops free. The only pressure is on the ball the top of the chamber and not on the screws mounting the toilet to the base or the plastic mounting the chamber to the pump. Finesse over brute force.