I have a Hunter Legend 37' with a mast length of about 55'. When raising the main the last 15 feet are the real killers. I have lubricated the track and still have a problem raising the sail. I recently saw advertised a "Power Sail Lift Tool" which I purchased for $29.95 which inserted in a 24 volt battery operated drill with at least 450 pounds of torque is supposed to raise the main to the top of the mast. My question, could this type of operation damage the winch or damage the drill? I found a place that sells reconditioned DeWalt 24Volt drills with 450 pounds of torque for $229.00. With a total cost of $258.95 if far less than the $2,500 cost of an electric winch. Has anyone tried this route before? If so what were your results?
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Wrist strength
I haven't heard of the tool or seen it. Is it an attachment to fit the drill head into the winch handle socket on top of the winch? But it seems to me that torque of that amount would be hard on the wrists. I would think the old winch handle, three wraps and elbow grease would do just as well. See the web site below for another use for your DeWalt if you go that route.
I haven't heard of the tool or seen it. Is it an attachment to fit the drill head into the winch handle socket on top of the winch? But it seems to me that torque of that amount would be hard on the wrists. I would think the old winch handle, three wraps and elbow grease would do just as well. See the web site below for another use for your DeWalt if you go that route.
Rigid Vang
Hi, Mickey! What do you have for a vang? We put a Garhauer rigid vang on 'Syzygy' this spring, and it has made a world of difference in the main, both going up and coming down. Just before raising we ease both the mainsheet and the vang and let the rigid vang raise the boom about as much as it will. Then that huge main of ours just goes right up with hardly any effort. Same thing coming down. Just before dropping we let the vang lift the boom, and the main drops all the way down. Lifting the boom is probably just taking any pressure from the weight of the boom and sail off of the luff and the sail lugs, minimizing friction in the track. Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Hi, Mickey! What do you have for a vang? We put a Garhauer rigid vang on 'Syzygy' this spring, and it has made a world of difference in the main, both going up and coming down. Just before raising we ease both the mainsheet and the vang and let the rigid vang raise the boom about as much as it will. Then that huge main of ours just goes right up with hardly any effort. Same thing coming down. Just before dropping we let the vang lift the boom, and the main drops all the way down. Lifting the boom is probably just taking any pressure from the weight of the boom and sail off of the luff and the sail lugs, minimizing friction in the track. Carl and Jule s/v 'Syzygy'
Three wraps around winch & Vang
I have tried the three wraps on the winch and, I must say, I have to rest a few times before I am able to get the sail completely raised. I like the "other uses" and if I go ahead with this method I now have a "multi-use" tool. The devise does go into the drill and then also goes into the winch. Carl, nice to hear from you, missed you on the bay, I have the original rope boom vang. I don't see how easing off the vang would have any effect since I have an adjustable topping lift that has my Dutchman sail flaking system on it. The end of the boom is above the normal sailing position. Once the sail is raised I then let off on the topping lift and the boom lowers into the proper sailing position. Therefore, no stress on sail until the topping lift is adjusted.
I have tried the three wraps on the winch and, I must say, I have to rest a few times before I am able to get the sail completely raised. I like the "other uses" and if I go ahead with this method I now have a "multi-use" tool. The devise does go into the drill and then also goes into the winch. Carl, nice to hear from you, missed you on the bay, I have the original rope boom vang. I don't see how easing off the vang would have any effect since I have an adjustable topping lift that has my Dutchman sail flaking system on it. The end of the boom is above the normal sailing position. Once the sail is raised I then let off on the topping lift and the boom lowers into the proper sailing position. Therefore, no stress on sail until the topping lift is adjusted.
Double that it will work.
Mickey: I doubt that it would work, but you may try it and see. You mentioned that you lubricated the track. What did you use? Most lubricants will make it worse. They attract dirt and make the track sticky. You really need to clean the track and slugs throughly and then try lubricating with McLube. This stuff help, but to what extent depends on easy individual boat. One thing that I have learned is to open the clutch ALL the way before trying to haul the sail. Once I get it most the way up, I close the clutch so it will hold the halyard without slipping. I close the clutch only for the last few inches when tensioning the sail. Each boat is different so I do not know if this will help you. Bainbrige makes a teflon/plastic slug that is suppose to be better than the traditional ones. It is probably going to cost you 1-1.5 hrs of labor at a sailmaker to try these out but may be worth it.
Mickey: I doubt that it would work, but you may try it and see. You mentioned that you lubricated the track. What did you use? Most lubricants will make it worse. They attract dirt and make the track sticky. You really need to clean the track and slugs throughly and then try lubricating with McLube. This stuff help, but to what extent depends on easy individual boat. One thing that I have learned is to open the clutch ALL the way before trying to haul the sail. Once I get it most the way up, I close the clutch so it will hold the halyard without slipping. I close the clutch only for the last few inches when tensioning the sail. Each boat is different so I do not know if this will help you. Bainbrige makes a teflon/plastic slug that is suppose to be better than the traditional ones. It is probably going to cost you 1-1.5 hrs of labor at a sailmaker to try these out but may be worth it.
Check the masthead rigging
My 37.5 came to me with the main haylard accross the sheave and a spacer up at the masthead (instead of between the two.) Raising the last 15 feet of the sail was very hard and got harder as I used the boat (had it for 2 years now.) In fact, the haylard was about as tight a guitar string when I finally got the sail up. Impossible. Spent some time this weekend up top, pulled the spacer out, got the line on the sheave, and replaced the spacer. I talked to several dealers, Hunter and Charleston Spar and they all thought this was the correct way (i.e., it was rigged incorrectly.) Sail goes up much, much easier. Your problem may be different, but I was at my wits end. Good luck.
My 37.5 came to me with the main haylard accross the sheave and a spacer up at the masthead (instead of between the two.) Raising the last 15 feet of the sail was very hard and got harder as I used the boat (had it for 2 years now.) In fact, the haylard was about as tight a guitar string when I finally got the sail up. Impossible. Spent some time this weekend up top, pulled the spacer out, got the line on the sheave, and replaced the spacer. I talked to several dealers, Hunter and Charleston Spar and they all thought this was the correct way (i.e., it was rigged incorrectly.) Sail goes up much, much easier. Your problem may be different, but I was at my wits end. Good luck.
I would also check to . . .
to make sure your reefing lines are slack, and not snagged or binding anywhere. Chris s/v Tidesong
to make sure your reefing lines are slack, and not snagged or binding anywhere. Chris s/v Tidesong
sail slugs
Have a close look at the top slugs, especially at the head board - these take a hell of a lot of stress & strain and will somethimes have grooves cut into them - this causes the once smooth sufrace to gripe in the sail luff track. Also check that the head board stays correctly aligned to the mast - the head cringle can deform so a s the sail goes up, the head board is brought into the mast rather than staying parallel - again this will cause problems. If it takes so much effort to get the sail UP, how much to get it DOWN ? Also strongly endorse the winch & muscle power to raise - too much effort is only going to damage something and if the sail is 3/4 way up & you break the halyard what then or worse still tear the headboard right out of the sail when it is 3/4 way up ? sort the problem with finess, not brute power.
Have a close look at the top slugs, especially at the head board - these take a hell of a lot of stress & strain and will somethimes have grooves cut into them - this causes the once smooth sufrace to gripe in the sail luff track. Also check that the head board stays correctly aligned to the mast - the head cringle can deform so a s the sail goes up, the head board is brought into the mast rather than staying parallel - again this will cause problems. If it takes so much effort to get the sail UP, how much to get it DOWN ? Also strongly endorse the winch & muscle power to raise - too much effort is only going to damage something and if the sail is 3/4 way up & you break the halyard what then or worse still tear the headboard right out of the sail when it is 3/4 way up ? sort the problem with finess, not brute power.
Solution to raising mainsail
Mickey, I had the same problem with raiasing the mainsail on my 1994 Legend 37.5 and the 1992 Legend 33.5 that I now own. My sailmaker suggested an external sail track which is made from a "slippery" plastic, and using sail cars to replace the sail slugs. Seems like the full length batttens place an unusual load on the mainsail luff, which means that you have to "muscle" the main both up and down! The external track and cars made a vast difference on both boats. Even with the unusual prerbend that the 33.5 is spected to have, the main is easy to raise and drops without any effort. I would strongly recommend your looking into this upgrade. It really makes a difference in raising and lowering the main, and is beneficial to aid reefing in a blow!
Mickey, I had the same problem with raiasing the mainsail on my 1994 Legend 37.5 and the 1992 Legend 33.5 that I now own. My sailmaker suggested an external sail track which is made from a "slippery" plastic, and using sail cars to replace the sail slugs. Seems like the full length batttens place an unusual load on the mainsail luff, which means that you have to "muscle" the main both up and down! The external track and cars made a vast difference on both boats. Even with the unusual prerbend that the 33.5 is spected to have, the main is easy to raise and drops without any effort. I would strongly recommend your looking into this upgrade. It really makes a difference in raising and lowering the main, and is beneficial to aid reefing in a blow!
Double the Main Halyard
Many Hunters suffer your problem. Most from new. I largely solved my 376 by putting a block on the headboard and using a new, longer, halyard attached at the mast head and running down to the block and back to the masthead sheave and thence as previously. This gives a 2:1 purchase. I also found it helps to raise the main at the mast and have someone else pull the slack through to the cockpit. You should find a fuller description in the archives.
Many Hunters suffer your problem. Most from new. I largely solved my 376 by putting a block on the headboard and using a new, longer, halyard attached at the mast head and running down to the block and back to the masthead sheave and thence as previously. This gives a 2:1 purchase. I also found it helps to raise the main at the mast and have someone else pull the slack through to the cockpit. You should find a fuller description in the archives.
Oh, come on, y'all....
What's all this talk about 450 pounds of torque and using double halyards, winches and 20-ton come-alongs to raise a main on boats under 40 feet? Y'all are scaring me! Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if one is having that much problem raising the sail, there's something seriously amiss here than just not enough arm muscle? Assuming that the problem is lugs -- and I have had that problem -- then consider what Michael was saying about an external track made of "slippery" plastic and lugs that attch to the luff. The system he's referring to is the Strong Sail System and I installed that on my 78h30. Total cost was about $1,200 and it's great...absolutely great. Mainsail goes all the way without a hitch and to drop it all you have to do is uncleat the halyard and turn it a-loose. Get out of the way, tho, because the main's coming all the way to the deck. Certainly, sails on larger boats -- in the 60 foot class, for instance -- are too heavy to muscle up alone, but mains on smaller boats that are sufficiently difficult to hoist without serious mechanical assistance clearly indicates the problem is not with the hoisting gear, but with sail itself. As it turns out on my boat, once we got to looking, the lugs on the sail were not the proper ones to begin with, but I'm absolutely sold on the Strong system regardless. Good luck.
What's all this talk about 450 pounds of torque and using double halyards, winches and 20-ton come-alongs to raise a main on boats under 40 feet? Y'all are scaring me! Hasn't it occurred to anyone that if one is having that much problem raising the sail, there's something seriously amiss here than just not enough arm muscle? Assuming that the problem is lugs -- and I have had that problem -- then consider what Michael was saying about an external track made of "slippery" plastic and lugs that attch to the luff. The system he's referring to is the Strong Sail System and I installed that on my 78h30. Total cost was about $1,200 and it's great...absolutely great. Mainsail goes all the way without a hitch and to drop it all you have to do is uncleat the halyard and turn it a-loose. Get out of the way, tho, because the main's coming all the way to the deck. Certainly, sails on larger boats -- in the 60 foot class, for instance -- are too heavy to muscle up alone, but mains on smaller boats that are sufficiently difficult to hoist without serious mechanical assistance clearly indicates the problem is not with the hoisting gear, but with sail itself. As it turns out on my boat, once we got to looking, the lugs on the sail were not the proper ones to begin with, but I'm absolutely sold on the Strong system regardless. Good luck.
More Info block on headboard
Can you get the main to the black line when using a block on the headboard? What size block? Can't quite visionalize this arrangement. We also raise main at the masthead, but have found if you loosen the solid vang and the main sheet and pull the reef lines out, that it becomes easier to raise the main. Joan
Can you get the main to the black line when using a block on the headboard? What size block? Can't quite visionalize this arrangement. We also raise main at the masthead, but have found if you loosen the solid vang and the main sheet and pull the reef lines out, that it becomes easier to raise the main. Joan
Sorry Bob,
but I think you are mistaken. Take a fully battened main, bent mast, inefficient double deck organiser etc etc. First thing I did was to replace all sheaves on main halyard with ball bearing ones - little improvement. Next was to fit 4 ball sliders at batten pocket ends. Slight improvement but now head of mainsail is too high to reach from deck when sail comes down. Most hunter owners of 376 and larger complain it is a coronary job to get it up! Remember also that the main on these B&R rigged boats is much larger than that commonly seen on boats derived from the old IOR formula and is more akin to a 42 footer. I even did a test and, before all the ball bearings etc and it took a 40 lbs pull on the halyard tail to lift my 10 lb toolbox off the deck. Yet there is nothing wrong with the setup, no chafe or wear on the halyard or anything else. Of course we have the boom fully topped up and reefing lines all pulled through and slack. Guess its just a design problem. My dealer even offered to fit an electric winch at trade price and this is Hunter's recommendation. Hunter owners have been banging on about this since 1996 and I just did an archives search for my positng is approx 1998 and the search engine flunked out at 500 posts and this only went back to year 2000!!! Sorry to contradict you.
but I think you are mistaken. Take a fully battened main, bent mast, inefficient double deck organiser etc etc. First thing I did was to replace all sheaves on main halyard with ball bearing ones - little improvement. Next was to fit 4 ball sliders at batten pocket ends. Slight improvement but now head of mainsail is too high to reach from deck when sail comes down. Most hunter owners of 376 and larger complain it is a coronary job to get it up! Remember also that the main on these B&R rigged boats is much larger than that commonly seen on boats derived from the old IOR formula and is more akin to a 42 footer. I even did a test and, before all the ball bearings etc and it took a 40 lbs pull on the halyard tail to lift my 10 lb toolbox off the deck. Yet there is nothing wrong with the setup, no chafe or wear on the halyard or anything else. Of course we have the boom fully topped up and reefing lines all pulled through and slack. Guess its just a design problem. My dealer even offered to fit an electric winch at trade price and this is Hunter's recommendation. Hunter owners have been banging on about this since 1996 and I just did an archives search for my positng is approx 1998 and the search engine flunked out at 500 posts and this only went back to year 2000!!! Sorry to contradict you.
Joan
If you release the attachment at the tack of the sail and fully raise the main so that it will not go higher, then the amount by which the tack comes above the boom will indicate the size of block to use. I have no idea if the sail reaches the black band and this doesn't matter anyway. However I can get a tight luff for upwind sailing. I have a UK sails main and used a 2" block with a small strip shackle to keep it all compact. I have just tried the archives but cannot find the item I posetd in 1998 (approx). In essence I found a 1/4" hole in the crane at the masthead (Z Spars mast). Into this I put a small shackle and to this I tied the end of the new low stretch 3/8" (10mm) main halyard. This then comes down the mast, through the new block on the headboard(Schaeffer 2") and back up again to the masthead sheave. From there it passes down inside the mast and back to the cockpit via the deck organiser and the rope clutch. You will need a MUCH longer halyard. Also use a block which does not have a swivel on the becket.
If you release the attachment at the tack of the sail and fully raise the main so that it will not go higher, then the amount by which the tack comes above the boom will indicate the size of block to use. I have no idea if the sail reaches the black band and this doesn't matter anyway. However I can get a tight luff for upwind sailing. I have a UK sails main and used a 2" block with a small strip shackle to keep it all compact. I have just tried the archives but cannot find the item I posetd in 1998 (approx). In essence I found a 1/4" hole in the crane at the masthead (Z Spars mast). Into this I put a small shackle and to this I tied the end of the new low stretch 3/8" (10mm) main halyard. This then comes down the mast, through the new block on the headboard(Schaeffer 2") and back up again to the masthead sheave. From there it passes down inside the mast and back to the cockpit via the deck organiser and the rope clutch. You will need a MUCH longer halyard. Also use a block which does not have a swivel on the becket.
Raise sail on 50 foot 340 by hand
H340, turning blocks, mast 56.6 off the water, B&R rig. I can raise the main by hand to within 2 feet of the top, and I have my Medicare Card ! Mast bend must be close to yours as over the past two years I've tighten her down using Loos Gauges. So I would think that there must be something unique about your 370, or your particular boat. Can't be that much difference in 5 feet of sail, though that 5 feet has a much longer foot than mine. Seems odd, though, that you are having that much trouble.
H340, turning blocks, mast 56.6 off the water, B&R rig. I can raise the main by hand to within 2 feet of the top, and I have my Medicare Card ! Mast bend must be close to yours as over the past two years I've tighten her down using Loos Gauges. So I would think that there must be something unique about your 370, or your particular boat. Can't be that much difference in 5 feet of sail, though that 5 feet has a much longer foot than mine. Seems odd, though, that you are having that much trouble.
Well, I'll agree I may be missing something
But, it's odd to me that so many people are having so many problems. Mine, once we took it all apart and got to looking at it, turned out, in part, to be wrong lugs, but a bare metal slit in the mast, nylon or plastic lugs, corrosion, salt build-up, dirt, gunk and whatever can and does, of course, bind the main going up, ergo, probably the reason behind invention of track systems. And, there's something to be said about the total overall weight being applied to the halyard as the sail is hoisted aloft. In view of all the posts on this subject, I stand corrected. On the larger boats I've sailed -- 60' up to 150' -- one does, in fact, need winches to get the mains and other sails fully up. And, I can see the point if one is using lines run aft thru deck appliances that the more "routes" one has, the more the problem exacerbates, so I acknowledge and cede your point. Perhaps there are things of which I'm either not familiar going on here or problems I've solved by going with track systems, which I really do think have a legitimate place on boats today. Thanks for the insights and the correction.
But, it's odd to me that so many people are having so many problems. Mine, once we took it all apart and got to looking at it, turned out, in part, to be wrong lugs, but a bare metal slit in the mast, nylon or plastic lugs, corrosion, salt build-up, dirt, gunk and whatever can and does, of course, bind the main going up, ergo, probably the reason behind invention of track systems. And, there's something to be said about the total overall weight being applied to the halyard as the sail is hoisted aloft. In view of all the posts on this subject, I stand corrected. On the larger boats I've sailed -- 60' up to 150' -- one does, in fact, need winches to get the mains and other sails fully up. And, I can see the point if one is using lines run aft thru deck appliances that the more "routes" one has, the more the problem exacerbates, so I acknowledge and cede your point. Perhaps there are things of which I'm either not familiar going on here or problems I've solved by going with track systems, which I really do think have a legitimate place on boats today. Thanks for the insights and the correction.
Effect of webbed-on vs. shackled-on slides?
I always follow the recurring threads about difficulties in raising the main with interest but am also a bit puzzled why our Legend 43 (with one of the biggest, full-battened mains in the fleet) does not have a real problem in that department; at least not anymore. Thinking back to the first 2 or 3 years after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 I do indeed remember being unhappy about the force required to raise the main then. So we experimented with the ususal remedies, ranging from track/slidelubrication, and installing a hard boomvang to Dutchman batten cars. All of these did help incrementally but slacking off the reefing lines (by intermittently pulling them out of the boom by hand), made by far the biggest difference. In addition, we got rid of a factory-mounted rod between the two big cabin roof windows which pushed down on all the cockpit-led lines and caused a lot of unnecessary friction. Surprisingly enough, in spite of diminishing muscle strength plus rather sloppy attendance to track lubrication, raising the main today does not appear to be as big a chore as it was then. My best guess is that one or both of the following two factors may play a big role: (1) having carefully webbed, rather than shackled, slides (which may help keeping the slides better aligned); and/or (2) having two relatively old mains (which are less stiff than new sails). In the last case I am in for a nasty surprise when buying a new main
( Meanwhile, I wonder what percentage of Hunter owners uses webbed-on slides and if anyone else has noticed that to make any difference in raising the main? Fair winds, Flying Dutchman
I always follow the recurring threads about difficulties in raising the main with interest but am also a bit puzzled why our Legend 43 (with one of the biggest, full-battened mains in the fleet) does not have a real problem in that department; at least not anymore. Thinking back to the first 2 or 3 years after we bought Rivendel II in 1991 I do indeed remember being unhappy about the force required to raise the main then. So we experimented with the ususal remedies, ranging from track/slidelubrication, and installing a hard boomvang to Dutchman batten cars. All of these did help incrementally but slacking off the reefing lines (by intermittently pulling them out of the boom by hand), made by far the biggest difference. In addition, we got rid of a factory-mounted rod between the two big cabin roof windows which pushed down on all the cockpit-led lines and caused a lot of unnecessary friction. Surprisingly enough, in spite of diminishing muscle strength plus rather sloppy attendance to track lubrication, raising the main today does not appear to be as big a chore as it was then. My best guess is that one or both of the following two factors may play a big role: (1) having carefully webbed, rather than shackled, slides (which may help keeping the slides better aligned); and/or (2) having two relatively old mains (which are less stiff than new sails). In the last case I am in for a nasty surprise when buying a new main
( Meanwhile, I wonder what percentage of Hunter owners uses webbed-on slides and if anyone else has noticed that to make any difference in raising the main? Fair winds, Flying Dutchman
Webbed, Flying Duchman
On my former V32, I took a hint from someone at UK, and replaced all my shackles with webbing. Did it myself with only about 3 puncture wounds to tend to. It made a REALLY BIG difference. Also cleaned all the cars and track at that time. I also had changed earlier to the larger slugs from Hunter. Rick D.
On my former V32, I took a hint from someone at UK, and replaced all my shackles with webbing. Did it myself with only about 3 puncture wounds to tend to. It made a REALLY BIG difference. Also cleaned all the cars and track at that time. I also had changed earlier to the larger slugs from Hunter. Rick D.
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