Raising the Gooseneck

[steve.bp65]

Reposition the Gooseneck

I recently had a bimini fitted to our hunter 240. To allow the installer to measure up and fit it I rigged the mast in his yard, securing the boom with the topping lift. I'm only new to sailing and on the two occasions that I had sailed her I had mistakenly sailed with the topping lift attached thinking this was the done thing.

The problem I have now is that the boom now drops roughly 2 inches further than the height of the bimini while supported by the sail only which means we can’t have the bimini erected while under sail.

Having the Bimini lowered is not a preferred option as I have also had 3 sides tailored to fit the bimini which connect to various areas of the boat. Any alterations to the bimini height would throw everything out of whack.

What I am considering doing is having the gooseneck re-riveted 2 - 3 inches higher up the mast. Is there any reason I shouldn't do this or is there a simpler option?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I would not suggest doing that. However with the mainsail up, take a pair of binoculars and see how much room or distance at the height of the sail to the top of the mast. You have to figure some stretch to the mainsail as over time that can happen.

If you do not have enough space, then you have only two options. Option 1 would be to cut the sail height down and that would hurt the performance a lot but it would allow the movement of the boom up.

Option 2 would be to take the boat back to the person who measured for the bimini because I hate to say this but there is a heck of a lot of liability there because he should have figured for that. Generally a good loft if questioning the height would have raised the mainsail and then measured for proper fit. I think your installer erred in this case and he should be responsible for making things right.

 

[twodzusfittings]

This action in my opinion, and as previously stated in other posts, has no merit and is not necessarily fact, would lead to a change in the main sail performance. By setting the boom higher, it will make the sail baggier, if the sail currently fills the length of the mast when fully hoisted. I adjusted my Bimini slightly higher, so that the boom can swing just under the front of the Bimini. As the sail does not come all the way to the end of the boom, there is now no interference.

 

[cest ah]

put a reefing cringle on the leach about 6 in up from the boom, when you sail with the bimini up tie in that short reef, it will be like a flattening reef and will keep the boom a little higher and not hurt performance much, I have sailed a boat for years with this and seems to work ok.

 

[Siamese]

It appears the two main options are to raise the boom or lower the bimini. There's probably no right or wrong option, so I can only say what I would do if I'd made this blunder. I'd bite the bullet and have the bimini lowered. No way I'd cripple my boat with a permanent reef.

I wasn't there for the conversation with the fabricator and don't know if boom position was ever discussed, and whether you represented it to him directly or indirectly as being in the sailing position. Did you, or did you not tell him the boom was in the sailing position? If you did, then morally, it would be your responsibility.

All that said, if it was me, and I had told him that's where the boom is when sailing, I'd pay for the refit of the canvas, and ask him if he offers a discount for people who screw up, but either way, I'd have it recut.

 

[caverun]

I'm only new to sailing and on the two occasions that I had sailed her I had mistakenly sailed with the topping lift attached thinking this was the done thing.

I sail my 240 with the topping lift attached all the time. With the mainsail raised it is slack, and with the main down, it supports the boom. You do know the topping lift is adjustable at the front of the boom? One of the 3 lines running through the boom is for the topping lift- so you could try sailing with it tightened to support the boom with the sail up- this will give you worse sail shape of course, but you could try it.

 

[jblersch]

My 240 came from previous owner with a Boomkicker to support the boom, so no need for the topping lift. The front of my Bimini just fits under the boom this way and works very well for me. I haven't seen how the boom is positioned without the boomkicker, but maybe that's so something to consider to help you out.

 

[steve.bp65]

Thankyou everybody for your responses. First let start by saying that I accept full responsibility for the error made with the bimini measurements. The installer advised me during our initial conversation that he had no experience with sailboats and his measurements were taken based on my advice.
This morning I decided to cut off the small section just above the foot on each side of the bimini effectively giving an approximate one inch drop. By adjusting the bimini forward on the straps bringing it closer to the mainsheet and in a position closer to horizontal I have managed to pick up around another inch. These adjustments will definitely effect the fitting position of the two side and rear enclosures I have had made to fit (the part I was trying to avoid) but I’m hoping it will just be a case of shortening and lengthening the elastic connection chords.

I would not suggest doing that. However with the mainsail up, take a pair of binoculars and see how much room or distance at the height of the sail to the top of the mast. You have to figure some stretch to the mainsail as over time that can happen.

If you do not have enough space, then you have only two options. Option 1 would be to cut the sail height down and that would hurt the performance a lot but it would allow the movement of the boom up.

Option 2 would be to take the boat back to the person who measured for the bimini because I hate to say this but there is a heck of a lot of liability there because he should have figured for that. Generally a good loft if questioning the height would have raised the mainsail and then measured for proper fit. I think your installer erred in this case and he should be responsible for making things right.

Crazy Dave I rigged the mast this morning with intention of raising the mainsail to get those measurements but the boat is sitting on the trailer and there is a little more wind around than I would like at the moment. I am reasonably confident however that I have around a foot of clearance at the top of the mast (which is why I was considering relocating the gooseneck upwards by an inch or two).

This action in my opinion, and as previously stated in other posts, has no merit and is not necessarily fact, would lead to a change in the main sail performance. By setting the boom higher, it will make the sail baggier, if the sail currently fills the length of the mast when fully hoisted. I adjusted my Bimini slightly higher, so that the boom can swing just under the front of the Bimini. As the sail does not come all the way to the end of the boom, there is now no interference.

Robert I don’t think that the sail does fill the length of the mast but I'm yet to confirm this. The option of allowing the boom to swing under the bimini is not a viable one for me as it finishes too far forward and would foul on the sail when raised.

It appears the two main options are to raise the boom or lower the bimini. There's probably no right or wrong option, so I can only say what I would do if I'd made this blunder. I'd bite the bullet and have the bimini lowered. No way I'd cripple my boat with a permanent reef.

I wasn't there for the conversation with the fabricator and don't know if boom position was ever discussed, and whether you represented it to him directly or indirectly as being in the sailing position. Did you, or did you not tell him the boom was in the sailing position? If you did, then morally, it would be your responsibility.

All that said, if it was me, and I had told him that's where the boom is when sailing, I'd pay for the refit of the canvas, and ask him if he offers a discount for people who screw up, but either way, I'd have it recut.

Siamese your assumption is correct, It is entirely my fault and a refit is not an option I’ve ruled out if need be’ I’m just hoping for some cheaper ones

I'm only new to sailing and on the two occasions that I had sailed her I had mistakenly sailed with the topping lift attached thinking this was the done thing.

I sail my 240 with the topping lift attached all the time. With the mainsail raised it is slack, and with the main down, it supports the boom. You do know the topping lift is adjustable at the front of the boom? One of the 3 lines running through the boom is for the topping lift- so you could try sailing with it tightened to support the boom with the sail up- this will give you worse sail shape of course, but you could try it.

Caverun this is where my lack of experience again shines. I had assumed that the first reef line bale that is mounted at the top rear of the boom was where I connected the topping lift to. I had also been advised by someone with significant sailing experience that the lines running out of the back of the boom was an outhaul and 2 reefing lines. I have now downloaded the h240 manual and it turns out he was wrong. This means that the only adjustment I have on my topping lift from where the initial bimini measurement is downward.

 

[sailmaster39]

Raise gooseneck

I'm gonna disagree with everybody, I raised my boom on a Beneteu 235 about 6 inches, no noticeable difference in performance. You cut your sail also unless you have extra room on top of mast.

 

[Ron20324]

Why not just undo the main's tack fitting and see how much farther you can raise the sail?

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

whoever made the bimini should have refused to make it if he was not use to sailboats. I would take the boat back to him for a recut.

 

[isaksp00]

Long thread, but ... per Caverun's comments, if the topping lift is set up correctly you should be able to lower and raise the boom. The PO on my boat had altered it by using a fixed length wire rope from the mast crane to a shackle attached to the aft boom fitting (the topping lift line through the boom had been removed).

I fixed it, by reinstalling a nylon topping lift line into the boom, and shortening the wire rope so it ended about 3 ft above the boom end, and adding a small swivel block to the lower end of the topping lift wire. The topping lift nylon line routes out the rear of the boom through the sheave, up to the swivel block, then down to be tied off to the boom end. I can raise the boom by pulling the topping lift at the front end of the boom. I leave it a bit high when the main is stowed and then loosen the line after I raise the main.

Something like this (or any correct use of the topping lift through the boom) would allow you to raise the boom a bit when sailing. The shape of the main might not be ideal in that case, but since it ought to be rigged properly anyway, you could try it when it is high enough to clear the bimini and see how it looks.

 

[Benny17441]

It is not uncommon to have the end of the boom supported only by the sail to drop two or more inches below its parallel position. That will not yield the best sail shape for most conditions. We usually look for the boom to run parallel to the boat's deck but it is not unusual to sail with the boom's end higher than the goose neck. This creates an angle which raises the mid section of the boom and it could provide the gap needed to clear the bimini in cases where the goose neck can not be lifted any more. Yes you can adjust the height and support the boom while sailing with the topping lift. Before making any changes just give it a try by just raising the end section of the boom until it clears the top. If you are not happy with the sail shape then see how far up you can bring the gooseneck. Make sure there is room to raise the sail fully to a tightened position and that should provide the limit to how high it can go. If you must rivet the goose neck then allow a little extra room for sail stretch.

 

[patn44]

you might have to recut the sail (there by loosing sail area / speed) if you raise the boom.

 

[sailmaster39]

I really don`t think raising the gooseneck 3-4 inches would affect performance significantly. You should have room to raise your sail without altering your sail. Everything is a compromise. As stated earlier my,the previous owner of my Beneteau 235 raised the gooseneck 6 + inches and I still beat the competition. This was my second Beneteau 235,so I know the boat.
Have Fun
Richard

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Steve;
There has been a lot said from cutting the sail, raising the boom, performance affected/not affected and so on. First I was involved with the 23.5 project and introduced this boat. The original bimini design is the same sold by the Forum Store as I was there for the first measuring of the bimini offered in either 4 or 6 feet long. Your approach to cutting it down is what I would have told you.
I am not a naval architect but have been around boats most of my life and learned from the best and the old timers who knew a trick or two. I speak only in layman's terms. The Hunter water ballast boats I was very much involved and sold the majority as a dealer. Now you can see I try to help from a layman's standpoint.
As for the topping lift on the 23.5 it is a Z Spar or U.S Spar (Z spar) that has the lever up forward but the line can slip. As for the topping lift, it keeps the boom from falling into the cockpit damaging the boat and folks from being hit with or without injury. Here is a trick I did with mine since the line slipped thru the lever at times. I use to put a big knot in it so it could not slip thru the lever all the way. In adition there is a block with two sheaves, becket ( for attachment) with a v jam used in small boat boom vangs that I would tie to the end of the line exiting the boom and then rounte the 1/4 inch line topping lift thru it so I could raise or lower the boom and simply jam that line in a hurry. My customers liked that set up.