Does anyone know how the rudder on an M25 is supposed to work. There are two lines attached to mine. One is apparently a downhaul that runs through a block on the rudder castle and secures to a cleat on the castle itself and seems to work ok. The other runs from the rudder blade to a block on the stern rail and is supposed to haul the rudder up (again secured to the cleat when raised). Lowering the rudder is not much of a problem. I occasionally will reach down with my foot and push while pulling on the downhaul. Down she goes and I go sailing. Reversing this isn't quite as easy. Occasionally I can get the blade to at least come to the surface. Most of the time I need to motor forward some to coax it up. Hauling it from the water requires an act of Congress. Usually I end up lassoing it with another line to hoist it up. My opinion is that the line to lift it needs to be attached alot further down the blade to allow some mechanical leverage. This set-up came with the boat and I see no signs of any prior attachment further down the blade. Any ideas? Thanks. -John
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Rudder
I did something similar to this when I installed my Ida rudder. It gives much better leverage than the original.
I did something similar to this when I installed my Ida rudder. It gives much better leverage than the original.
Rudder
Greetings, I just brought my new (to me) '84 M25 home last night. My rudder appears to have the stock rigging as you describe. I notice the rudder has a fair amount of side play to it in the castle. How much is acceptible? I have a background in auto racing where on most parts you want zero slop in it. So I'm trying to be careful not to over-tighten or shim something up that shouldn't be. I also notice there is a second bolt hole to secure the rudder in the castle, does anyone recommend putting a second bolt through (I'd actually thought about a quick-release shear-pin) if you know you will be in deep water and aren't worried about going aground? The boat is in pretty good condition, it needs some little things here and there. I'm going to be going through the boat pretty carefully and tidying up things here and there. Are there other things on Mac 25's that I should be aware of or to look for common wear issues? I had read up quite a bit on the Mac 25 before buying and I'm comfortable that I've bought a good boat, but certainly I didn't have time to read every last message on the web about these boats. This is my first cruiser sail boat, I'm used to center-board boats mainly, and I have a background in auto racing. I realize there might be some things on a race car that you want very snug that on a boat you want some clearance. Tips? Comments? Thanks, Colin
Greetings, I just brought my new (to me) '84 M25 home last night. My rudder appears to have the stock rigging as you describe. I notice the rudder has a fair amount of side play to it in the castle. How much is acceptible? I have a background in auto racing where on most parts you want zero slop in it. So I'm trying to be careful not to over-tighten or shim something up that shouldn't be. I also notice there is a second bolt hole to secure the rudder in the castle, does anyone recommend putting a second bolt through (I'd actually thought about a quick-release shear-pin) if you know you will be in deep water and aren't worried about going aground? The boat is in pretty good condition, it needs some little things here and there. I'm going to be going through the boat pretty carefully and tidying up things here and there. Are there other things on Mac 25's that I should be aware of or to look for common wear issues? I had read up quite a bit on the Mac 25 before buying and I'm comfortable that I've bought a good boat, but certainly I didn't have time to read every last message on the web about these boats. This is my first cruiser sail boat, I'm used to center-board boats mainly, and I have a background in auto racing. I realize there might be some things on a race car that you want very snug that on a boat you want some clearance. Tips? Comments? Thanks, Colin
Welcome Aboard
Colin, Welcome to the M25 club. I've had mine a few years now and love it. I don't get out as often as I'd like. As to your questions.... My rudder has quite a bit of slop as well. I don't see why you couldn't shim it as long as it is free to swing up and down. As far as locking it down, some people use the plastic toilet bolts to pin it in place in cases you hit something. I sail in the Chesapeake which has varying depth and a real chance of bottoming if you don't watch the depthsounder. I have a lightweight line for the rudder downhaul which should break before the rudder would be damaged. Things to check on your boat: the keel bolt, if you don't know how old it is, replace it. It is supporting 625 lbs. Same with the keel cable, any broken strands, replace it. Neither task is particularily difficult. Mast step and deck fittings, be sure to seal them properly. I had to recore my cabintop to the tune of 3k. Not good. Enjoy the boat. The 25 is a fun little cruiser. -John
Colin, Welcome to the M25 club. I've had mine a few years now and love it. I don't get out as often as I'd like. As to your questions.... My rudder has quite a bit of slop as well. I don't see why you couldn't shim it as long as it is free to swing up and down. As far as locking it down, some people use the plastic toilet bolts to pin it in place in cases you hit something. I sail in the Chesapeake which has varying depth and a real chance of bottoming if you don't watch the depthsounder. I have a lightweight line for the rudder downhaul which should break before the rudder would be damaged. Things to check on your boat: the keel bolt, if you don't know how old it is, replace it. It is supporting 625 lbs. Same with the keel cable, any broken strands, replace it. Neither task is particularily difficult. Mast step and deck fittings, be sure to seal them properly. I had to recore my cabintop to the tune of 3k. Not good. Enjoy the boat. The 25 is a fun little cruiser. -John
Shackle only
On my 26X I discovered accidently that using the retrieval rope to a an shackle only significantlly decreased the effort required to lift the rudders, and could use the original rope. Just put a wide D shackle in the rudder, teh tie rope to shackle. The effort is moved aft of the pivot point so more leverage is applied. An inch or so makes and amazing difference. If you can't find a shackle that fits, make one.
On my 26X I discovered accidently that using the retrieval rope to a an shackle only significantlly decreased the effort required to lift the rudders, and could use the original rope. Just put a wide D shackle in the rudder, teh tie rope to shackle. The effort is moved aft of the pivot point so more leverage is applied. An inch or so makes and amazing difference. If you can't find a shackle that fits, make one.
Thanks for the welcome!
Thanks for the welcome. After looking over my tiller, I decided not to take any risks and ordered a new tiller from Ida Sail. Wonderful looking product. The old tiller had been beefed up with some thicker steel plates where there was a hairline crack. Only question I have is it looks as if the stock tiller arrangement just has some stainless oblong/oval plates to keep the tiller from wearing. Is this substantial enough? I was planning on using my existing tiller as a pattern to set the bolt location on the tiller. I also got a couple of the delrin rudder pins from Ida Sail, they claim they will break cleaner than the toilet bolts will. Thanks, Colin
Thanks for the welcome. After looking over my tiller, I decided not to take any risks and ordered a new tiller from Ida Sail. Wonderful looking product. The old tiller had been beefed up with some thicker steel plates where there was a hairline crack. Only question I have is it looks as if the stock tiller arrangement just has some stainless oblong/oval plates to keep the tiller from wearing. Is this substantial enough? I was planning on using my existing tiller as a pattern to set the bolt location on the tiller. I also got a couple of the delrin rudder pins from Ida Sail, they claim they will break cleaner than the toilet bolts will. Thanks, Colin
uphaul link
this looks pretty good, sure you can port to a ida rudder. I have the lower block but may add the the block on the uphaul. http://www.macgregor-boats.com/mods/mods.html (from macgregor-boats.com)
this looks pretty good, sure you can port to a ida rudder. I have the lower block but may add the the block on the uphaul. http://www.macgregor-boats.com/mods/mods.html (from macgregor-boats.com)
Keel Bolt for Mac 25
Hello John Barrett on the Chesapeake. I enjoy sailing my M25 there also. I noticed your advice regarding replacing the keel bolt. Any advice on how to do it? Parker
Hello John Barrett on the Chesapeake. I enjoy sailing my M25 there also. I noticed your advice regarding replacing the keel bolt. Any advice on how to do it? Parker
Keel Bolt Replacement
Parker, I've had my keel out a few times now for maintenance. What I do is block the rear of it in the cradle with a piece of 2X4 to keep the rear steady. I then put a floor jack under the front about a foot or so back. I raise the jack enough to take the weight off of the bolt and then remove the bolt. If all you are doing is replacing the bolt it is a simple matter of inserting the new bolt, washers, and rubber seals. Tighten it up and remove the jack. In my case, I usually lower the keel out of the well to clean or paint it. I will then enlist my wife or son to look through the pivot hole inside while I jack the keel into place. Occasionally, a large screwdriver will be needed to coax the keel into alignment. As far as the bolt itself, I snug it up fairly well and then bring the wrenches along when I first launch to tighten more if I have a leak. I also put silicone on both sides of the rubber seals when I install the bolt. -John
Parker, I've had my keel out a few times now for maintenance. What I do is block the rear of it in the cradle with a piece of 2X4 to keep the rear steady. I then put a floor jack under the front about a foot or so back. I raise the jack enough to take the weight off of the bolt and then remove the bolt. If all you are doing is replacing the bolt it is a simple matter of inserting the new bolt, washers, and rubber seals. Tighten it up and remove the jack. In my case, I usually lower the keel out of the well to clean or paint it. I will then enlist my wife or son to look through the pivot hole inside while I jack the keel into place. Occasionally, a large screwdriver will be needed to coax the keel into alignment. As far as the bolt itself, I snug it up fairly well and then bring the wrenches along when I first launch to tighten more if I have a leak. I also put silicone on both sides of the rubber seals when I install the bolt. -John
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