Radar Reflector ????

Feb 1, 2014
82
Watkins 27 North East, MD
I'm thinking that I'd sooner not have a s.s. "shape" hanging about. Would a mylar "flag " have sufficient reflective properties to be useful? .. Say a,n 18x24 flown off the spreader flag halyard?

TIA,
Paul
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Echomaster. Confirmed increase in radar return. Hang it in the rain-catching mode from your spreader.
 
Jun 27, 2014
117
Jeanneau Moorings International 50 Everett
Even if the mylar flag does reflect radar energy, very little will be directed back to the transmitter unless it is directly up/down wind of you. What makes radar reflectors work, even the narrow ones referenced by Jackdaw, is the corner reflectors that bounce the radar energy that hits it back in the direction it came from.
 
Feb 2, 2006
470
Hunter Legend 35 Kingston
This is sort of the definitive study on reflectors: http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/daroot/Offshore/SAS Studies/radar reflector tests.pdf

Even though it's old, nothing much seems to have changed as far as available products. The quick take away in the using the Davis Echo Master in the "double catch rain" position is sort of the best. Smaller devices like the Mobri or flags really provide a marginal signal return. None of them are universally the best in all situations.

Chris
 
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Jan 4, 2010
1,037
Farr 30 San Francisco
Here is another report Radar Reflectors Report from the MAIB in UK after the Ouzo accident best reflector by far is C-me active type Davis Echomaster also does well. Your other option is AIS B transponder. Should be almost 100% effective for big ships maybe 30% effective for small boats
 
Mar 20, 2004
1,739
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
Read the studies that have been done carefully...
We originally got two of the plastimos for Escape but our admittedly qualitative and informal testing showed little improvement over the bare boat using a standard raymarine dome 2KW radar. After talking to some of my Navy friends installed the small tri-lens and saw a huge improvement in detectability - the Navy really does use the large version. The davis echomaster as Chris said also works quite well and is a very economical, if more labor intensive, solution. The echomaster shows up significantly better than a bare rig - when we're on flotilla I usually act as the radar boat in fog, so I spend a lot of time studying returns. The AIS transponder is also a good idea if you're in an area with a lot of commercial traffic or large boats. Escape has a class B transponder and it's great for seeing larger boats that are equipped - tankers, freighters, ferries, yachts over 65 ft, etc - and they can see you. In addition to course, speed, CPOA it shows you their name and number - and ships that ignore you as a mystery boat answer a hail when you hail them by name. BUT, if they don't have AIS you don't see them and that can be very dangerous if you depend on it - I've never seen a lobsterboat with a transponder. If you install an AIS receiver or transponder you can also equip your crew with emergency beacons that will put a crew overboard warning with GPS location and steering directions on most current chartplotters - under $300 each. Our testing indicates that they work really well - immediately put the chartplotters (SIMRAD and Raymarine) into MOB mode with a heading and distance to the beacon, plotted position was accurate to about 10 feet. I have a friend who installed a CU-See Me on his boat and it works well - when hit by a radar it sends back a burst of interference that really shows up.
 
May 7, 2012
1,522
Hunter e33 Maple Bay, BC
Escape has a class B transponder and it's great for seeing larger boats that are equipped - tankers, freighters, ferries, yachts over 65 ft, etc - and they can see you.
Came up empty when I Googled "Escape AIS". Could you be so kind to provide a link or more info on this device?
Thanks.
 
Jul 1, 2010
990
Catalina 350 Port Huron
After talking to some of my Navy friends installed the small tri-lens and saw a huge improvement in detectability - the Navy really does use the large version.
When you mention the "small" tri-lens, is that the medium one or the one they call the mini. Currently don't have a reflector on our boat, but will get one before we take it up to Maine next season. Just curious if the mini tri-lens would be an improvement over the Davis one.
 
Mar 20, 2004
1,739
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
right, kappykaplan! AIS class B systems come in receive only - you can see other transponder equipped ships but they can't see you - or transponder (tx/rx) units that transmit your data as well as receive. I went for the transponder because I wanted other ships to see us.... Most 3rd party transponders work with current chartplotters as long as you match the NMEA interfaces. Some major manufacturers, notably raymarine, play with the interfaces, making it harder to cross mfr lines.
 
Mar 20, 2004
1,739
Hunter 356 and 216 Portland, ME
When you mention the "small" tri-lens, is that the medium one or the one they call the mini. Currently don't have a reflector on our boat, but will get one before we take it up to Maine next season. Just curious if the mini tri-lens would be an improvement over the Davis one.
I used the small - mini - tri lens and it was far superior to the plastimos or the bare boat, and noticeably better than the Davis - and it's permanently mounted on the mast, not banging around on a spare halyard - always up - important here in Maine , and no maintenance
 
Feb 2, 2010
373
Island Packet 37 Hull #2 Harpswell Me
I also use the tri lens, doesn't get in the way of anything, always reflecting, i used to forget to haul up the old reflector. The tri lens appears to be the best option ( greatest RCS) without going down the route of an active reflector. The UK report is worth reading.
 
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dhays

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Aug 2, 2010
93
Catalina C400 Gig Harbor, WA
I spent a lot of time looking at radar reflectors and decided the Tri-Lens was the best option. However, the Davis Echo Master is MUCH cheaper and works well if mounted properly. Tri lens gives better coverage over a wider range of conditions and is permanently mounted. I ended up going with the Davis.

However! I have owned the Davis Echo Master for 5 years and have yet to actually fly it. I don't want it flying permanently and it has always been too much of a hassle to raise properly. So, I haven't. I am not only a cheap SOB, I am a lazy SOB. In my case, lazy trumps cheap so if I was to do it again, I would get the Tri-Lens
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
My Davis EchoMaster goes up the port spreader halyard in the spring, and comes down on that mournful last day of the sailing season. No need to make it one more thing you have to rig before you hoist sail.
 

dhays

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Aug 2, 2010
93
Catalina C400 Gig Harbor, WA
My Davis EchoMaster goes up the port spreader halyard in the spring, and comes down on that mournful last day of the sailing season. No need to make it one more thing you have to rig before you hoist sail.
Yeah, I used to leave it up during the nice season on my Catalina 36 just as you do. I have had them fall twice as the halyard line frays and finally gives way.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,471
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Yeah, I used to leave it up during the nice season on my Catalina 36 just as you do. I have had them fall twice as the halyard line frays and finally gives way.
Me too! Almost hit me on the noggin and I lost the halyard line to the spreader.