I just purchased my first sailboat, an '80 Hunter 33. I would like to add radar to the boat and was wondering if anyone can offer some advice on what I need to know to do this. I noticed there are mounting brackets out there that keep the radar level but are pretty expensive (~$1000). Is this necessary for proper radar operation? Does anyone have any recommendations for how to install the radar or any other considerations I should keep in mind when shopping for one? If you have any recommendations for specific hardware for a radar antenna and chartplotter combo I would be interested in hearing them... thanks!
Radar Installation?
- Thread starter mseifert
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Radar Mounts
Most radars are mounted on a fixed mount on the mast, or on a pole at the rear of the boat. A gimbaled mount is only needed if you are using your radar while sailing to weather (heeled over). Usually when radar is needed you will be under power and level. Off shore is when you could be sailing and using the radar, and you may like a gimbaled mount in that situation. If you are heeling the radar will not see as far to the low side, and may not see anything to the high side, but will still see things ahead, and astern.
Most radars are mounted on a fixed mount on the mast, or on a pole at the rear of the boat. A gimbaled mount is only needed if you are using your radar while sailing to weather (heeled over). Usually when radar is needed you will be under power and level. Off shore is when you could be sailing and using the radar, and you may like a gimbaled mount in that situation. If you are heeling the radar will not see as far to the low side, and may not see anything to the high side, but will still see things ahead, and astern.
Lots of information here
There is lots of information on this subject in the archives, and was just recently a post on this same subject. From my perspective, I like a radar mounted on the mast. Some prefer theirs on the back stay, some on a pole mount at the stern. Several on here use and like the gimballed mounts which keep the antenna level. As to the single display vs two units. Again you will find different opinions. I am somewhat anal about having different systems tied together, because if one goes, more than likely they will both go. But I think I am in a minority on this one. And most modern electronics seem to be very dependable. So, my best advice is to read all the information you can find, and then decide which system is best for your needs.
There is lots of information on this subject in the archives, and was just recently a post on this same subject. From my perspective, I like a radar mounted on the mast. Some prefer theirs on the back stay, some on a pole mount at the stern. Several on here use and like the gimballed mounts which keep the antenna level. As to the single display vs two units. Again you will find different opinions. I am somewhat anal about having different systems tied together, because if one goes, more than likely they will both go. But I think I am in a minority on this one. And most modern electronics seem to be very dependable. So, my best advice is to read all the information you can find, and then decide which system is best for your needs.
Having used all three of those mounts..
I've owned three boats with it on the mast, one with a Questus and one, my current boat, with a radar pole. My short answer or suggestion is to mast mount! I've had consistently better performance with higher domes! Furthermore, the difference between my very expensive Questus and my somewhat expensive fixed, not gimbaled, stern "pole" is negligible if any and yes we do sail in the fog. I will eventually remove my current stern pole and go with a mast mounted radome again for better performance. While some will argue the "weight aloft" point of view I look at it as a safety measure. In Maine you need radar performance because the lobstermen rarely, if ever, look at theirs. In even 10 foot seas I've completely lost targets with stern mounted radar. Not good... I'll surely trade a little weigh aloft for performance related to safety any day of the week. Two summers ago on our vacation we used our radar 15 out of 18 days so radar is generally considered serious business on the foggy Maine coast. If you're bay sailing only a stern pole will work but do get the highest possible pole you can. For off shore the mast mount, and I currently have a stern pole so I'm not preaching the religion I have and use here, is the better choice. The Questus was a beautifully built piece of equipment but I honestly can't say I noticed any "real" significant difference even under sail. In theory it's a nice sounding idea in the real world however the stated performance gains did not add up for me.. Mast Mount Pros: Performance, & less expensive installation if you already have your mast down. Mast Mount Cons: Splicing the wire, access (some complain of head sails getting caught but I've personally never had that happen. Stern Pole Pros: Access, good place to mount a second anchor light & GPS antennas or a cockpit light. Stern Pole Cons: Performance, high initial cost, aesthetics (though this is personal preference), tricky to install on many boats..
I've owned three boats with it on the mast, one with a Questus and one, my current boat, with a radar pole. My short answer or suggestion is to mast mount! I've had consistently better performance with higher domes! Furthermore, the difference between my very expensive Questus and my somewhat expensive fixed, not gimbaled, stern "pole" is negligible if any and yes we do sail in the fog. I will eventually remove my current stern pole and go with a mast mounted radome again for better performance. While some will argue the "weight aloft" point of view I look at it as a safety measure. In Maine you need radar performance because the lobstermen rarely, if ever, look at theirs. In even 10 foot seas I've completely lost targets with stern mounted radar. Not good... I'll surely trade a little weigh aloft for performance related to safety any day of the week. Two summers ago on our vacation we used our radar 15 out of 18 days so radar is generally considered serious business on the foggy Maine coast. If you're bay sailing only a stern pole will work but do get the highest possible pole you can. For off shore the mast mount, and I currently have a stern pole so I'm not preaching the religion I have and use here, is the better choice. The Questus was a beautifully built piece of equipment but I honestly can't say I noticed any "real" significant difference even under sail. In theory it's a nice sounding idea in the real world however the stated performance gains did not add up for me.. Mast Mount Pros: Performance, & less expensive installation if you already have your mast down. Mast Mount Cons: Splicing the wire, access (some complain of head sails getting caught but I've personally never had that happen. Stern Pole Pros: Access, good place to mount a second anchor light & GPS antennas or a cockpit light. Stern Pole Cons: Performance, high initial cost, aesthetics (though this is personal preference), tricky to install on many boats..
Maine Sail ...
What months are the foggiest in Maine, and what months are the least foggy --- on average?
What months are the foggiest in Maine, and what months are the least foggy --- on average?
Well..
It's easiest to break it down this way. Winter least fogy summer most! But really any time in the summer can be foggy depending on wind and weather. I'd say though that June & July seem to be a slight bit more foggy than August or September. If you go past MDI it seems almost always foggy. Basically when ever we get a good South, East or South East wind there is the chance for fog. If there is morning fog not due to a S, E or SE wind it will burn off by late morning early afternoon but if it's a SE fog it can be here for days on end. When we get a good N or NW wind that is when you most certainly won't have fog except for the possibility of early morning..
It's easiest to break it down this way. Winter least fogy summer most! But really any time in the summer can be foggy depending on wind and weather. I'd say though that June & July seem to be a slight bit more foggy than August or September. If you go past MDI it seems almost always foggy. Basically when ever we get a good South, East or South East wind there is the chance for fog. If there is morning fog not due to a S, E or SE wind it will burn off by late morning early afternoon but if it's a SE fog it can be here for days on end. When we get a good N or NW wind that is when you most certainly won't have fog except for the possibility of early morning..
Radar on the Mast
Mast mounted radar seems to be the most popular choice. I think most radar on a pole is chosen for ease of installation. I would have chosen a mast mount if it had been easier to do. The radar needs to be high enough to see 16-24 nautical miles if you will be sailing off shore. Where I sail I rarely use a scale higher than 12 nm, and usually use 3-6 nm scales. If the radar is too high it will have trouble seeing real close (under 1/8 mile). The radar beam is 25 degrees. If you are heeling at 15 degrees, then one side of the radar is looking for airplanes, and the other side is looking for submarines near your boat.
Mast mounted radar seems to be the most popular choice. I think most radar on a pole is chosen for ease of installation. I would have chosen a mast mount if it had been easier to do. The radar needs to be high enough to see 16-24 nautical miles if you will be sailing off shore. Where I sail I rarely use a scale higher than 12 nm, and usually use 3-6 nm scales. If the radar is too high it will have trouble seeing real close (under 1/8 mile). The radar beam is 25 degrees. If you are heeling at 15 degrees, then one side of the radar is looking for airplanes, and the other side is looking for submarines near your boat.
Radar Installation (Hunter 33)
I recently had the Raymarine 2K raydome installed on my 2006 Hunter 33. I wasn't sure if the mast mount or pedestal mount was the best option, initially. I have now had my mast mount system for the past 4 months. As far as I'm concerned that is the only way to go on a boat this size and configuration. The installation cost (labor) was about $635.00 (actually used the dealership instead of a contractor) and I provided the 15 meter extension cable (necessary because the one included with the raydome wasn't long enough) and the compatable Raymarine mast mount. You may be able to beat this labor price but I found it easier to use someone familiar with my boat (done in about 5 or 6 hours). My sell for the mast mount was a couple contractors came out and said they had to drop the mast or install a pedestal mount (more expensive). You do not need to drop the mast unless, maybe, there is no feeder-chase in your existing mast. The 2K raydome interfaced with my Raymarine C80 chartplotter works great especially in the open ocean. Good luck and e-mail if you have additional questions.
I recently had the Raymarine 2K raydome installed on my 2006 Hunter 33. I wasn't sure if the mast mount or pedestal mount was the best option, initially. I have now had my mast mount system for the past 4 months. As far as I'm concerned that is the only way to go on a boat this size and configuration. The installation cost (labor) was about $635.00 (actually used the dealership instead of a contractor) and I provided the 15 meter extension cable (necessary because the one included with the raydome wasn't long enough) and the compatable Raymarine mast mount. You may be able to beat this labor price but I found it easier to use someone familiar with my boat (done in about 5 or 6 hours). My sell for the mast mount was a couple contractors came out and said they had to drop the mast or install a pedestal mount (more expensive). You do not need to drop the mast unless, maybe, there is no feeder-chase in your existing mast. The 2K raydome interfaced with my Raymarine C80 chartplotter works great especially in the open ocean. Good luck and e-mail if you have additional questions.
radar dome
My boat came with a non-working radar dome installed on my mast. While I have no experience, and comment as to the functionality of a radar dome based on installation location, I can tell you that during my sea trial the jib got snagged on the dome during a jibe, and even the po had a difficult time getting it unsnagged. Right now, between that and other necessary boat needs, I'm leaning towards just taking it off.
My boat came with a non-working radar dome installed on my mast. While I have no experience, and comment as to the functionality of a radar dome based on installation location, I can tell you that during my sea trial the jib got snagged on the dome during a jibe, and even the po had a difficult time getting it unsnagged. Right now, between that and other necessary boat needs, I'm leaning towards just taking it off.
I'm going with a transom pole mount
I've been back and forth on where to mount my Garmin radar. I will be mounting it on a stern pole, probably the ScanStrut mount. I figure it will give me plenty of range (8' up and 4KW) in most conditions. A mast mount gives me the creeps when I'm trying to tack my 150% genoa. I'm sure it can be done but I'd rather not have more to worry about in high winds. The stern pole gives me a nice spot to mount my GPS antennea. I plan on installing a crane to help get the dinghy outboard into the boat without busting a gut. I think the crane may also help getting a MOB back in the boat (hope I never have to test it). Any FWIW that's my plan for this spring.
I've been back and forth on where to mount my Garmin radar. I will be mounting it on a stern pole, probably the ScanStrut mount. I figure it will give me plenty of range (8' up and 4KW) in most conditions. A mast mount gives me the creeps when I'm trying to tack my 150% genoa. I'm sure it can be done but I'd rather not have more to worry about in high winds. The stern pole gives me a nice spot to mount my GPS antennea. I plan on installing a crane to help get the dinghy outboard into the boat without busting a gut. I think the crane may also help getting a MOB back in the boat (hope I never have to test it). Any FWIW that's my plan for this spring.
Range of Radar
Pilot; Lets figure that it is 12 feet from the radar antenna to the water. That will give your radar a horizon distance of 4.26 nautical miles. That is as far as your radar can see a target at sea level. If the target is 25 feet tall, you will be able to see it 10.3 nautical miles away. It does not matter how powerful the radar is 2kw, 4kw, will have the same range at 12 feet above the water.
Pilot; Lets figure that it is 12 feet from the radar antenna to the water. That will give your radar a horizon distance of 4.26 nautical miles. That is as far as your radar can see a target at sea level. If the target is 25 feet tall, you will be able to see it 10.3 nautical miles away. It does not matter how powerful the radar is 2kw, 4kw, will have the same range at 12 feet above the water.
Yes..
Mick is right about target tracking distance but perhaps Pilot is buying a 4kw dome to find weather or because it's a Garmin? Garmin's little 18" dome the GMR-18 or GMR-18HD is a 4kw 5.2 degree band width and everyone else makes a 2kw 18" dome...!!! You'll never see 36 miles on the water at 8 or 10 feet but you may see storms in the sky..
Mick is right about target tracking distance but perhaps Pilot is buying a 4kw dome to find weather or because it's a Garmin? Garmin's little 18" dome the GMR-18 or GMR-18HD is a 4kw 5.2 degree band width and everyone else makes a 2kw 18" dome...!!! You'll never see 36 miles on the water at 8 or 10 feet but you may see storms in the sky..
A great thread
I purchased a brand new JRC 1000 almost 2 1/2 years ago when I bought my Catalina 30. Then I decided to haul her over the mountains and lake sail until I retire. (that may happen in 2009). As things go now, I hope to install the radar, then take my boat to the West coast and sail my brains out. This will probably happen in @ 2010. I am in agreement with Mseifert that the self levelling mounts are expensive. After reading this thread, I think I will save myself time and money and mount it on the mast. Ken
I purchased a brand new JRC 1000 almost 2 1/2 years ago when I bought my Catalina 30. Then I decided to haul her over the mountains and lake sail until I retire. (that may happen in 2009). As things go now, I hope to install the radar, then take my boat to the West coast and sail my brains out. This will probably happen in @ 2010. I am in agreement with Mseifert that the self levelling mounts are expensive. After reading this thread, I think I will save myself time and money and mount it on the mast. Ken
cool mount
Wow that pole looks great. NICE JOB I'd be VERY interested in the construction details. How did you mount it? I have a sloped transom and thought the ScanStrut mount would be perfect but the thing is pricey. As far as range and such, I figure 4-5 miles is plenty far for object/boat ID on the water in poor visibility. Thanks for the link Mick. I found the difference between 12' above the water and 25' is around 2 etra miles to the horizon. I can live without those extra couple of miles (my choice, maybe not others). I like the 4kw idea because in heavy rain I may be able to see through the junk a little easier. I'm also hoping to be able to use the radar as a weather evaluation tool when looking at "them nasty looking clouds over there". I'm new to marine radar so all input is a learning session for me. Keep it coming. Some aviation radars can give a good readout of vertical storm development by tilting the scan axis. Is that possible with a marine unit?
Wow that pole looks great. NICE JOB I'd be VERY interested in the construction details. How did you mount it? I have a sloped transom and thought the ScanStrut mount would be perfect but the thing is pricey. As far as range and such, I figure 4-5 miles is plenty far for object/boat ID on the water in poor visibility. Thanks for the link Mick. I found the difference between 12' above the water and 25' is around 2 etra miles to the horizon. I can live without those extra couple of miles (my choice, maybe not others). I like the 4kw idea because in heavy rain I may be able to see through the junk a little easier. I'm also hoping to be able to use the radar as a weather evaluation tool when looking at "them nasty looking clouds over there". I'm new to marine radar so all input is a learning session for me. Keep it coming. Some aviation radars can give a good readout of vertical storm development by tilting the scan axis. Is that possible with a marine unit?
This is all great info
To everyone that has replied... this is great info! Thanks a lot! I was not aware of the difference and benefits before between the 2 and 4 kilowatt models either... I am looking to purchase the 18" Garmin 4 kilowatt one. As these posts started coming in I first thought that the mast mount was a no brainer, then I thought that the post mount at the back of the boat sounded better, now I'm torn, at least I have a lot more info to consider now. I was not aware prior to this that the marine radar could show weather. Can anyone enlighten me regarding the capabilities of marine radar with weather? What exactly can you tell from the radar related to weather? thanks!
To everyone that has replied... this is great info! Thanks a lot! I was not aware of the difference and benefits before between the 2 and 4 kilowatt models either... I am looking to purchase the 18" Garmin 4 kilowatt one. As these posts started coming in I first thought that the mast mount was a no brainer, then I thought that the post mount at the back of the boat sounded better, now I'm torn, at least I have a lot more info to consider now. I was not aware prior to this that the marine radar could show weather. Can anyone enlighten me regarding the capabilities of marine radar with weather? What exactly can you tell from the radar related to weather? thanks!
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