OK, it's almost Spring, and I need a project. Considering adding radar to my h410. Questions for this educated group: 1) Is the installation DIY at all? If not, any good installers in Long Island or CT area? 2) Pole might be nice for installing other stuff (would love to have a hoist for engine, e.g.), but seems expensive, and with a fractional rig, the mast seems like an easy place to put the radome. Opinions? 3) The screen has to be in the cockpit to be useful. There is a small pedestal guard on the forward part of the pedestal (about 9" high), has GPS mounted there. Seems like if I could replace this with a taller guard it would be a neat installation, but where do you find such a part? Not in Edson catalog. 4) Will probably buy the basic Raymarine unit, matches the rest of the instruments. Opinions? S/V Breathless 2000 h410 #250 US 51855
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It's up to your 'style'
Poles are hot. Arches are dominating among cruisers in the tropics. (I did an arch) Mast mounts,,well,,IMO, Suck. All they do is put the antenna higher. The idea is to gain range. For that imaginary benefit, you hang a 30-40 pound weight half way up your mast, IN THE SLOT! Plus, it's too high to pick up close-in targets that you really HAVE TO SEE. I set up my display, prior to our rebuild, so my wife could sit outside and 'see' when she was using the radar. She tried it once off the Washington coast. It was so foggy the bow lights were barely visible. She came below, along with the display. The display never went outside again. That was 13 years ago. But it depends on your style. Look around at other boats too. Your gonna love radar.
Poles are hot. Arches are dominating among cruisers in the tropics. (I did an arch) Mast mounts,,well,,IMO, Suck. All they do is put the antenna higher. The idea is to gain range. For that imaginary benefit, you hang a 30-40 pound weight half way up your mast, IN THE SLOT! Plus, it's too high to pick up close-in targets that you really HAVE TO SEE. I set up my display, prior to our rebuild, so my wife could sit outside and 'see' when she was using the radar. She tried it once off the Washington coast. It was so foggy the bow lights were barely visible. She came below, along with the display. The display never went outside again. That was 13 years ago. But it depends on your style. Look around at other boats too. Your gonna love radar.
Pole Mount
Steve, I also went for a pole mount on my H335 and will do so again on the H375 I just bought. Three reasons; 1. Avoiding weight aloft; 2. No problem with chafing the headsail or damage to the transmitter from continual sail contact; and 3. Ease of installation. The radar has functioned very well for us from the pole mount. We really don't use it for navigation so we're mostly concerned with collision avoidance in reduced visibility. Consequently close in views are much more important to us than extreme distances. I installed a JRC 1500 myself with the help of a friend and will do so again. I used a Garhauer pole mount with an engine hoist the first go around. It's spendy and heavy though, and I'm not sure I'm going to use it again. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
Steve, I also went for a pole mount on my H335 and will do so again on the H375 I just bought. Three reasons; 1. Avoiding weight aloft; 2. No problem with chafing the headsail or damage to the transmitter from continual sail contact; and 3. Ease of installation. The radar has functioned very well for us from the pole mount. We really don't use it for navigation so we're mostly concerned with collision avoidance in reduced visibility. Consequently close in views are much more important to us than extreme distances. I installed a JRC 1500 myself with the help of a friend and will do so again. I used a Garhauer pole mount with an engine hoist the first go around. It's spendy and heavy though, and I'm not sure I'm going to use it again. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H375
DIY
I installed a radar on the mast of my 376 just above the running light to avoid adding s hole in the mast. The main reason for choosing the mast was cost. I installed the display in the console. Cut a hole in the console. It is not a difficult project with the exception of feeding the cable in the mast. I tried from the bottom up and could not get it done. From the top down was easy. ????
I installed a radar on the mast of my 376 just above the running light to avoid adding s hole in the mast. The main reason for choosing the mast was cost. I installed the display in the console. Cut a hole in the console. It is not a difficult project with the exception of feeding the cable in the mast. I tried from the bottom up and could not get it done. From the top down was easy. ????
My opinion-
Yes it is a DIY project if you are technically inclined and don't have 10 thumbs. IMO a pole would be ideal. I used a backstay mount to lower the cost. I would not put it on the mast becase of the previously mentioned disadvantages of weight, chafe, and difficulty of running the cables. Also, yards tend to charge you an extra fee to handle a radar if they unstep/step your mast. Consider that if the pole mount does extra duty as a outboard lift or other functions, it's cost may seem more reasonable. Definately mount the display at the helm station. I can't see the logic of any other location. The helmsman is the one who needs the information. See my attached photo of my installation on my 40.5. This was supposed to be a "temporary" solution until I could find a housing that I liked. However, this solution works so well that I will not change it now. The display is fully and easily adjustable for viewing at the helm, and it can be adjusted so that you can watch it on long motoring passages from the port cockpit bench. I custom made the mount in an afternoon. The cable routing to the steering console is not too hard to do. Be sure to mount the display where it can be easily reached- you will be adjusting the range and controls frequently.
Yes it is a DIY project if you are technically inclined and don't have 10 thumbs. IMO a pole would be ideal. I used a backstay mount to lower the cost. I would not put it on the mast becase of the previously mentioned disadvantages of weight, chafe, and difficulty of running the cables. Also, yards tend to charge you an extra fee to handle a radar if they unstep/step your mast. Consider that if the pole mount does extra duty as a outboard lift or other functions, it's cost may seem more reasonable. Definately mount the display at the helm station. I can't see the logic of any other location. The helmsman is the one who needs the information. See my attached photo of my installation on my 40.5. This was supposed to be a "temporary" solution until I could find a housing that I liked. However, this solution works so well that I will not change it now. The display is fully and easily adjustable for viewing at the helm, and it can be adjusted so that you can watch it on long motoring passages from the port cockpit bench. I custom made the mount in an afternoon. The cable routing to the steering console is not too hard to do. Be sure to mount the display where it can be easily reached- you will be adjusting the range and controls frequently.
Nice setup Rich
I would just suggest that you temper your opinion about mounting at the helm. You live in a place like ours. It can get nasty out. Most sailors with radar have an autopilot. Why sit outside in nasty weather looking at a screen when you can do it comfortably (with the heater on) down below?
I would just suggest that you temper your opinion about mounting at the helm. You live in a place like ours. It can get nasty out. Most sailors with radar have an autopilot. Why sit outside in nasty weather looking at a screen when you can do it comfortably (with the heater on) down below?
Well, Fred,.....
I understand the desire to get out of nasty weather and watch the radar from below while on autopilot. However, as appealing as that is, I have seen too many cases where a boat just doesn't show up on the radar screen, or shows up at a very close range. I can't subscribe to the tactic of substituting the radar for a watch-stander's eyes. I should also mention that I have a bimini that helps a lot to keep the main brunt of the weather off.
I understand the desire to get out of nasty weather and watch the radar from below while on autopilot. However, as appealing as that is, I have seen too many cases where a boat just doesn't show up on the radar screen, or shows up at a very close range. I can't subscribe to the tactic of substituting the radar for a watch-stander's eyes. I should also mention that I have a bimini that helps a lot to keep the main brunt of the weather off.
Thanks, guys
Advice noted. Think I will try to install on pole. Still want display at helm. Am inspired by neat display mounts. Have stainless arch- would like to try to use it to brace pole somehow- will have to get to boat to measure and get further inspiration. Boat still covered- 50 degrees today but forecast a little snow tonight here. S/V Breathless h410 2000 #250 US 51855
Advice noted. Think I will try to install on pole. Still want display at helm. Am inspired by neat display mounts. Have stainless arch- would like to try to use it to brace pole somehow- will have to get to boat to measure and get further inspiration. Boat still covered- 50 degrees today but forecast a little snow tonight here. S/V Breathless h410 2000 #250 US 51855
I know what you mean Rich
We did a lot of testing to make sure nothing snuck in under the radar screen. When we were tracking ducks paddling in front of us, our confidence grew. We still peek out of the bimini/dodger though, unless its really dark out, and then only long enough to scan for lights. Let it rain. I don't even own rain gear. Went from here to Trinidad and back and never got wet, (in the rain) or hit anything.
And as far as 'eyes' go, one word; fog.
We did a lot of testing to make sure nothing snuck in under the radar screen. When we were tracking ducks paddling in front of us, our confidence grew. We still peek out of the bimini/dodger though, unless its really dark out, and then only long enough to scan for lights. Let it rain. I don't even own rain gear. Went from here to Trinidad and back and never got wet, (in the rain) or hit anything.
And as far as 'eyes' go, one word; fog.My installation
Our Hunter 410 has the radar unit mounted on the mast above the first spreaders. This position does not interfere with the headsail and provides more line of sight. We have the radar control head mounted below in the nav station, with a repeter in the cockpit. This allows for some interesting features: radar and charts are controlled from below decks, waypoints can be entered from the nav station and transferred to the cockpit unit. Both can control the radar, display charts, etc. They are not truly redundant because the radar control unit below decks must be working for the radar to fundtion. We find this arrangement useful because the navigator below decks can plot routes, waypoints, etc, and set them for the crew who may be steering. Hope this helps.
Our Hunter 410 has the radar unit mounted on the mast above the first spreaders. This position does not interfere with the headsail and provides more line of sight. We have the radar control head mounted below in the nav station, with a repeter in the cockpit. This allows for some interesting features: radar and charts are controlled from below decks, waypoints can be entered from the nav station and transferred to the cockpit unit. Both can control the radar, display charts, etc. They are not truly redundant because the radar control unit below decks must be working for the radar to fundtion. We find this arrangement useful because the navigator below decks can plot routes, waypoints, etc, and set them for the crew who may be steering. Hope this helps.
Add gimbals?
Either for the radar unit on the mast or a pole, consider putting it on gimbals. Any opinions??
Either for the radar unit on the mast or a pole, consider putting it on gimbals. Any opinions??
Oh, yeah, gimbals. Almost forgot....
Our radome is mounted on a gimbal so that it self-levels. We have a Waltz system, but I have heard that they are out of business now. There are other units out there. I know that the popular thinking is that most time the radar is used while motoring and thus the need for a gimbal is minimal, but we do use our at all times underway. Also in rougher water, the antenna will remain roughly level. Although I have not done a comparison in performance with gimbaled and non-gimbaled installations, I would like to believe that the gimbaled installation would produce a more stable and accurate display.
Our radome is mounted on a gimbal so that it self-levels. We have a Waltz system, but I have heard that they are out of business now. There are other units out there. I know that the popular thinking is that most time the radar is used while motoring and thus the need for a gimbal is minimal, but we do use our at all times underway. Also in rougher water, the antenna will remain roughly level. Although I have not done a comparison in performance with gimbaled and non-gimbaled installations, I would like to believe that the gimbaled installation would produce a more stable and accurate display.
Rich, our mount on our arch has a manual
adjustment for heel. Because of that, we've tested it both ways. With our R20X Raytheon we have not noticed a differance.
adjustment for heel. Because of that, we've tested it both ways. With our R20X Raytheon we have not noticed a differance.
Thanks, Fred....
That is an interesting fact! Thanks!! I presume that if the heel angle is less than the vertical beam angle that no difference would be seen on the display since the target would still be seen. I think that the vertical beam angle is about +-20 degrees, but I'd have to check my owner's manual to be sure.
That is an interesting fact! Thanks!! I presume that if the heel angle is less than the vertical beam angle that no difference would be seen on the display since the target would still be seen. I think that the vertical beam angle is about +-20 degrees, but I'd have to check my owner's manual to be sure.
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