Where is the best place to install a radar/chartplotter...cabin or helm? Seems obvious that the helm would be the place of choice...but what about night cruising, inclimate weather, or the security of the instrument? can u have both.. a removable instrument from the navpod - to the cabin? 2nd ques. can one gps sensor service 2 units.. my existing gps and the new plotter? last ques. best place to mount the radar dome..mast or stern mount? any help w/b appreciated?
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navigation choices
In theory you can wire output wires to both the helm and nav station, however when the equipment is inside you will need to keep the wire at the helm 100% dry 100% of the time to avoid potentially frying your system. There are systems that allow multiple readout screens (inside and at helm) but I would not count on your current GPS being compatible. I recently had a new system installed and I opted for s helm readout. My thinking was that I don't always have an experienced crew onboard and want to have direct access to the information. I hope this helps. Good luck and good sailing.
In theory you can wire output wires to both the helm and nav station, however when the equipment is inside you will need to keep the wire at the helm 100% dry 100% of the time to avoid potentially frying your system. There are systems that allow multiple readout screens (inside and at helm) but I would not count on your current GPS being compatible. I recently had a new system installed and I opted for s helm readout. My thinking was that I don't always have an experienced crew onboard and want to have direct access to the information. I hope this helps. Good luck and good sailing.
At the helm
This is an easy answer to suggest--I've just finished a single handed cruise in my Hunter 380 and I would not have been able to do it if my radar and GPS were down below in the navigation locker. I hung my radar display from the arch so that I can see forward with clearance but many people put them on the steering station hand rails. My GPS is right to the left of my wheel where I can see it very clearly. My GPS is a large portable so I do take that down with me when the cruise is over. But all my instruments including my VHF radio are all mounted at the helm. On my last cruise, I was in the Swinomish channel which is not very wide AND in the dark of night. My radar was very important because I could not see the banks without it--my channel is only thirty yards wide at places. There are no lights. My GPS would tell me that I was approaching a bouy, then I would pick it up on the radar. I would not have attempted this run in the dark with my electronics down below. I want all my data at my finger tips and right in front of my eyes. I've been lucky to be able to be in one of the Washington State ferries' wheel houses and all their plotting grear are right in front of them. Interestingly enough the ferries do not carry a depth sounder. My radar array (the dome) I put on a pole on my port stern but it is almost at the heighth that it would have been on the mast. My reasoning was that the wireing was easier and that I can lower the pole to service the dome. Haven't had to do that so that may have been an error in my thinking. So my answer is: put it at the helm where you can use it. Les
This is an easy answer to suggest--I've just finished a single handed cruise in my Hunter 380 and I would not have been able to do it if my radar and GPS were down below in the navigation locker. I hung my radar display from the arch so that I can see forward with clearance but many people put them on the steering station hand rails. My GPS is right to the left of my wheel where I can see it very clearly. My GPS is a large portable so I do take that down with me when the cruise is over. But all my instruments including my VHF radio are all mounted at the helm. On my last cruise, I was in the Swinomish channel which is not very wide AND in the dark of night. My radar was very important because I could not see the banks without it--my channel is only thirty yards wide at places. There are no lights. My GPS would tell me that I was approaching a bouy, then I would pick it up on the radar. I would not have attempted this run in the dark with my electronics down below. I want all my data at my finger tips and right in front of my eyes. I've been lucky to be able to be in one of the Washington State ferries' wheel houses and all their plotting grear are right in front of them. Interestingly enough the ferries do not carry a depth sounder. My radar array (the dome) I put on a pole on my port stern but it is almost at the heighth that it would have been on the mast. My reasoning was that the wireing was easier and that I can lower the pole to service the dome. Haven't had to do that so that may have been an error in my thinking. So my answer is: put it at the helm where you can use it. Les
to each his own
I mounted my jrc 1800 radar plotter on a swing bracket - so it can swing out from below into the companion way area, and also be used/programed down below. the display is about 6 feet from where I stand at the helm. I can see the chart and radar display. I find it is more like driving with a speedometer just below your line of sight rather than one that is "in your lap" like a helm located display. (it was also alot cheaper to buy a swing bracket from WM than a secure weather proof helm mount) I can stand below in the evening and program the waypoints into the plotter regardless of the weather. I had a sspole fabricated for the starboard quarter of my cat 30 which holds radome,gps antenna, anchor light, and also has a swing crane for the o/b or man overboard retrieval. Yes the swing out diplay is not as close to you while at the helm but I prefer it that way so I don't become fixated with the GPS track and forget I am in the real world.
I mounted my jrc 1800 radar plotter on a swing bracket - so it can swing out from below into the companion way area, and also be used/programed down below. the display is about 6 feet from where I stand at the helm. I can see the chart and radar display. I find it is more like driving with a speedometer just below your line of sight rather than one that is "in your lap" like a helm located display. (it was also alot cheaper to buy a swing bracket from WM than a secure weather proof helm mount) I can stand below in the evening and program the waypoints into the plotter regardless of the weather. I had a sspole fabricated for the starboard quarter of my cat 30 which holds radome,gps antenna, anchor light, and also has a swing crane for the o/b or man overboard retrieval. Yes the swing out diplay is not as close to you while at the helm but I prefer it that way so I don't become fixated with the GPS track and forget I am in the real world.
The Helm, The Helm!
It may just be the aircraft jockey in me, but I can't imagine why you would not want your navigation instruments at the helm where you "fly" the boat, especially at night or in bad weather. What good is it below? If you want your chartplotter below for route planning, you can always bracket mount the unit and wire an extra power and network cable in the cabin. This of course assumes that your chartpotter accepts NMEA or seatalk data input(most do these days). You only need one GPS antenna if your instruments are networked.
It may just be the aircraft jockey in me, but I can't imagine why you would not want your navigation instruments at the helm where you "fly" the boat, especially at night or in bad weather. What good is it below? If you want your chartplotter below for route planning, you can always bracket mount the unit and wire an extra power and network cable in the cabin. This of course assumes that your chartpotter accepts NMEA or seatalk data input(most do these days). You only need one GPS antenna if your instruments are networked.
Both!
I have my radar at the helm and my laptop/chartplotter on the nav table. Having the radar at the helm makes for me being able to 'see' dangers but, because I am normally busy helming, it effectively prevents anyone else from plotting dangerous ships. This could lead to a disaster. Modern systems (Raymarine C Series and Simrad) allow two displays - if you can afford them both.
I have my radar at the helm and my laptop/chartplotter on the nav table. Having the radar at the helm makes for me being able to 'see' dangers but, because I am normally busy helming, it effectively prevents anyone else from plotting dangerous ships. This could lead to a disaster. Modern systems (Raymarine C Series and Simrad) allow two displays - if you can afford them both.
Integrated Raymarine
My integrated Raymarine chartplotter/sonar/radar is at the helm where is it capable of being programmed and seen all the time. It is connected by Seatalk and NEMA to the nav station where I use a laptop and the Raymarine software. I do planning either at home or at the nav station and then transfer wayoints to the helm station. I select waypoints and routes at the helm, operate the Marpha function and handle all actual navigation functions at the helm. I can't imagine not being able to do this. When cruising, I use the radar overlay on the chart and in all conditions, including night, I know where I am and the radar confirms the land mass and actual buoy locations (they are not always where shown on the chart). I can see the same picture on my laptop, including the radar overlay while crusing. If I go down below, I can still monitor what is going on. When going into an anchorage, I use the display at the helm on split screen with the chartplotter on top and sonar below. I can monitor both to avoid going aground while selecting a good anchorage. When anchored, I leave the radar on as an overlay on the laptop. I then set at least three ruler lines to fixed shore objects and am able to quickly ascertain whether I have drifted at all. I have a bimini and dodger and when leaving the boat, cover the helm instruments with a sunbrella cover made specifically for the helm station. This setup works great for me. When I leave the boat, I take the computer with me.
My integrated Raymarine chartplotter/sonar/radar is at the helm where is it capable of being programmed and seen all the time. It is connected by Seatalk and NEMA to the nav station where I use a laptop and the Raymarine software. I do planning either at home or at the nav station and then transfer wayoints to the helm station. I select waypoints and routes at the helm, operate the Marpha function and handle all actual navigation functions at the helm. I can't imagine not being able to do this. When cruising, I use the radar overlay on the chart and in all conditions, including night, I know where I am and the radar confirms the land mass and actual buoy locations (they are not always where shown on the chart). I can see the same picture on my laptop, including the radar overlay while crusing. If I go down below, I can still monitor what is going on. When going into an anchorage, I use the display at the helm on split screen with the chartplotter on top and sonar below. I can monitor both to avoid going aground while selecting a good anchorage. When anchored, I leave the radar on as an overlay on the laptop. I then set at least three ruler lines to fixed shore objects and am able to quickly ascertain whether I have drifted at all. I have a bimini and dodger and when leaving the boat, cover the helm instruments with a sunbrella cover made specifically for the helm station. This setup works great for me. When I leave the boat, I take the computer with me.
Helm first, then both
The helm is the obvious first choice for all the reasons stated. It can vary though, depending upon the kind of sailing you are doing. Our 356 has both. I don't use the one down below very often when we are underway with just the Admiral and I. However, when we are anchored out, I do turn the nav station equipment on to set an anchor alarm or radar sweep interval depending upon the situation. I sailed on a 37' Hunter from San Francisco to Ensenada a while back. We had radar at the helm and the chartplotter was below. Older systems and no interconnect. For that kind of sailing that was perfect. We had the radar where it was needed most, at the helm. I could do all the navigation chores, update positions, etc. down below where it was much nicer to be at 3:00 am. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
The helm is the obvious first choice for all the reasons stated. It can vary though, depending upon the kind of sailing you are doing. Our 356 has both. I don't use the one down below very often when we are underway with just the Admiral and I. However, when we are anchored out, I do turn the nav station equipment on to set an anchor alarm or radar sweep interval depending upon the situation. I sailed on a 37' Hunter from San Francisco to Ensenada a while back. We had radar at the helm and the chartplotter was below. Older systems and no interconnect. For that kind of sailing that was perfect. We had the radar where it was needed most, at the helm. I could do all the navigation chores, update positions, etc. down below where it was much nicer to be at 3:00 am. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
It's amazing...
It's amazing what is needed to go sailing these days. Last year, I spent several months cruising Florida and the Keys with just a compass, paper charts, and a handheld GPS. But now it sounds like that to do it right, I'll have to end my retirement and purchase all sorts of electronical-goblidy-gook (plus a bigger boat to hold it all) before ever I pull up my anchor again. Maybe sailing is just a rich man's game after all, the snootiness at many yacht clubs seems to agree.
It's amazing what is needed to go sailing these days. Last year, I spent several months cruising Florida and the Keys with just a compass, paper charts, and a handheld GPS. But now it sounds like that to do it right, I'll have to end my retirement and purchase all sorts of electronical-goblidy-gook (plus a bigger boat to hold it all) before ever I pull up my anchor again. Maybe sailing is just a rich man's game after all, the snootiness at many yacht clubs seems to agree.
I agree poor old cruiser
I admit I have a JRC 1800 Chart plotter radar ! I appreciate your comments about simplicity. I got the plotter radar because I cruise the west coast and no one but super man has xray vision for fog and heavy rain. THe chart plotter combo was less expensive than a stand alone radar made by others so I got it. THat's part of the reason I mount it away from the helm though because I too am concerned about the focus on electronics. My concern about radar and chart displays at the helm are that you forget to look up and out and focus on the real world. I will never forget a beautiful sunny day I took my two sons for a sail - they spent most of the trip watching the chart display and the red boat icon as it travelled across the display instead of enjoying the day on deck. - Go ahead and use it but don't rely on it !! PS poor old cruiser - don't tell me you actually "pull" your anchor up by hand like I do you better get an electric windlass, and while I'm at it you do have boom furling for your main sail don't you ??!!
I admit I have a JRC 1800 Chart plotter radar ! I appreciate your comments about simplicity. I got the plotter radar because I cruise the west coast and no one but super man has xray vision for fog and heavy rain. THe chart plotter combo was less expensive than a stand alone radar made by others so I got it. THat's part of the reason I mount it away from the helm though because I too am concerned about the focus on electronics. My concern about radar and chart displays at the helm are that you forget to look up and out and focus on the real world. I will never forget a beautiful sunny day I took my two sons for a sail - they spent most of the trip watching the chart display and the red boat icon as it travelled across the display instead of enjoying the day on deck.
- Go ahead and use it but don't rely on it !! PS poor old cruiser - don't tell me you actually "pull" your anchor up by hand like I do you better get an electric windlass, and while I'm at it you do have boom furling for your main sail don't you ??!!Equipment
We have a pretty well equipped boat, but we do not consider ourselves snooty. If I lived in a place where fog was not very prevalent and shipping channels did not need to be crossed, I might be comfortable with less. Its apparently a personal call, which amazes me a bit. We spent part of this afternoon with a couple who sailed from here (San Francisco) to Mexico about 16 years ago with nothing but paper charts and a compass. He acknowledged that he would never consider it today. He also told me the story of being out there in fog thick enough he could not see the front of the boat, and he was terrified. Conversly, my sail 15 months ago to Ensenada from here was conducted with radar. Our visibilty varied from about 1/8 mile or less to a max of 1 mile from before we went under the Golden Gate (we did not see it) until we were in the Channel Islands (2 and a half days). We talked with at least 8 ships on the way down that we saw on radar but never saw with our eyes. We used a 5 mile radius as our qualifier. Anyone who looked like they would get within 5 miles, got a call. Everyone on the boat slept better because of the capabilities. I flew airplanes for many years. The simple and fairly lightly equipped aircraft I learned in was fine for nice weather and day time flying. It would have been completely inappropriate for flying in instrument conditions. The thing that has always kind of fascinated me about sailing (or boating for that matter) is that it is perfectly legal to head out in zero visibility with a flipin bell or air horn. I suspect the guy in the 900 foot cargo container ship is not gonna hear that, and I would rather have both he and I looking for each other, than relying on him to do it all for me. Just my opinion. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
We have a pretty well equipped boat, but we do not consider ourselves snooty. If I lived in a place where fog was not very prevalent and shipping channels did not need to be crossed, I might be comfortable with less. Its apparently a personal call, which amazes me a bit. We spent part of this afternoon with a couple who sailed from here (San Francisco) to Mexico about 16 years ago with nothing but paper charts and a compass. He acknowledged that he would never consider it today. He also told me the story of being out there in fog thick enough he could not see the front of the boat, and he was terrified. Conversly, my sail 15 months ago to Ensenada from here was conducted with radar. Our visibilty varied from about 1/8 mile or less to a max of 1 mile from before we went under the Golden Gate (we did not see it) until we were in the Channel Islands (2 and a half days). We talked with at least 8 ships on the way down that we saw on radar but never saw with our eyes. We used a 5 mile radius as our qualifier. Anyone who looked like they would get within 5 miles, got a call. Everyone on the boat slept better because of the capabilities. I flew airplanes for many years. The simple and fairly lightly equipped aircraft I learned in was fine for nice weather and day time flying. It would have been completely inappropriate for flying in instrument conditions. The thing that has always kind of fascinated me about sailing (or boating for that matter) is that it is perfectly legal to head out in zero visibility with a flipin bell or air horn. I suspect the guy in the 900 foot cargo container ship is not gonna hear that, and I would rather have both he and I looking for each other, than relying on him to do it all for me. Just my opinion. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Swing It
Not necessarily either or both: A friend had mounted his radar on a swing arm, so he could see it at the nav station and also from the helm and when tucked under the dodger. C36, nice installation. Stu
Not necessarily either or both: A friend had mounted his radar on a swing arm, so he could see it at the nav station and also from the helm and when tucked under the dodger. C36, nice installation. Stu
Both helm and nav station
I have a 10" radar/plotter at the helm and a 7" radar/plotter at the nav station on my Catalina 400. That was a lot of money to put into electronic "toys" but I'm glad I did. When I don't need the radar, we (my wife, 6 year old, and myself) play a game of estimating distances and line of sight techniques and then check the radar to see who's closest. We're having fun, we're learning to be more accurate visually, and when we really need the radar we actually have a much better idea of what we're seeing on the radar and how to sail by the radar. Since we are a young family, our most important consideration is safety. Spending money on redundant systems which we're training to not depend on seems reasonable. I should mention as well that both units are interchangeable up top and if the helm unit goes out and is needed, I can move the smaller unit to the cockpit. Also, when on a night passage, whoever is on watch can go below for a few minutes to make coffee, etc. and still be able to keep an eye on the radar and chartplotter--not necessary but a nice convenience.
I have a 10" radar/plotter at the helm and a 7" radar/plotter at the nav station on my Catalina 400. That was a lot of money to put into electronic "toys" but I'm glad I did. When I don't need the radar, we (my wife, 6 year old, and myself) play a game of estimating distances and line of sight techniques and then check the radar to see who's closest. We're having fun, we're learning to be more accurate visually, and when we really need the radar we actually have a much better idea of what we're seeing on the radar and how to sail by the radar. Since we are a young family, our most important consideration is safety. Spending money on redundant systems which we're training to not depend on seems reasonable. I should mention as well that both units are interchangeable up top and if the helm unit goes out and is needed, I can move the smaller unit to the cockpit. Also, when on a night passage, whoever is on watch can go below for a few minutes to make coffee, etc. and still be able to keep an eye on the radar and chartplotter--not necessary but a nice convenience.
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