Scott, I agree I was hoping to get soem more info from the site with other racers, however, I have gotten little input form these postings. I am racing an '87, 28.5 sd. Recently moved to RI from the Cleveland area. Competition is a little tougher here and I need some tricks. I just put an order in for a new main (had original main on the boat). questions are Has anyone had sucess with a large roach on there main (the B&R rigging makes it tight to fit a racing roach). dacron vs pentex or mylar my season is over, but I an preparing for for next season. We finished 3 overall mostly due to a small fleet. A hunter 31 and Pearson 26 were the toughest competition in my class at Barrington YC. Looking forward to some more chatter in this section.
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Roach
It is easier to reduce sail than to create it. If you race get the biggest sail that the rules will allow and be prepared to reef it when conditions dictate. PHRF rules limit the amount of roach on the mainsail. Your sailmaker should know the largest legal dimensions. I would recommend that the two top battens be full and the lower two be partial. The full battens help support the larger (than crusing) roach. You said that you have already ordered your sails...what did you order? I purchased North 3DL sails a couple of years ago and I have been very happy with them. However, I am sure UK, Sobstad, and in your area, Banks (Now owned by North?) also build a good sail. Doyle is known less for building racing sails (I think) but I am sure they make a good sail, too. Main thing is to talk to the sailmaker and get comfortable with their knowledge of your boat and your goals. You already have a blown out dacron sail. If you ordered dacron, in a short period of time you will have another one as they stretch faster than the other materials that you mentioned. My North sail has held its shape well even though we've sailed in some good breezes. In a year or two it will probably turn to dust, but while it lasts, it is a great sail. If you are going to race, I think you should buy sails for racing and forget about how long they will last. Each time you race with a dacron sail it will stretch a bit, UK tape drive Pentex, or North 3DL with Pentex or other high tech fibers will not stretch as much or as quickly, but will be worthless when they finally do fail after 3 to 5 years (or less). The B & R rig should not affect mainsail roach. What will happen, is that the top battens and sail roach will rub on the backstay when you tack. Don't worry, t doesn't chafe (much). In light air this is annoying as the battens often catch and do not allow the sail to cross to leaward. This condition is not impossible to overcome. Changing to very light battens for the two top full ones will ease some of this light air problem. Remembering to filp the backstay when you tack will also cure the "hang up." There are other devices which keep the backstay clear of the "roachy" sail when you tack. I think for what I do, they are too much trouble and cost too much. Smooth sailing, Ron s/v Counterpoint, Hunter 33.5
It is easier to reduce sail than to create it. If you race get the biggest sail that the rules will allow and be prepared to reef it when conditions dictate. PHRF rules limit the amount of roach on the mainsail. Your sailmaker should know the largest legal dimensions. I would recommend that the two top battens be full and the lower two be partial. The full battens help support the larger (than crusing) roach. You said that you have already ordered your sails...what did you order? I purchased North 3DL sails a couple of years ago and I have been very happy with them. However, I am sure UK, Sobstad, and in your area, Banks (Now owned by North?) also build a good sail. Doyle is known less for building racing sails (I think) but I am sure they make a good sail, too. Main thing is to talk to the sailmaker and get comfortable with their knowledge of your boat and your goals. You already have a blown out dacron sail. If you ordered dacron, in a short period of time you will have another one as they stretch faster than the other materials that you mentioned. My North sail has held its shape well even though we've sailed in some good breezes. In a year or two it will probably turn to dust, but while it lasts, it is a great sail. If you are going to race, I think you should buy sails for racing and forget about how long they will last. Each time you race with a dacron sail it will stretch a bit, UK tape drive Pentex, or North 3DL with Pentex or other high tech fibers will not stretch as much or as quickly, but will be worthless when they finally do fail after 3 to 5 years (or less). The B & R rig should not affect mainsail roach. What will happen, is that the top battens and sail roach will rub on the backstay when you tack. Don't worry, t doesn't chafe (much). In light air this is annoying as the battens often catch and do not allow the sail to cross to leaward. This condition is not impossible to overcome. Changing to very light battens for the two top full ones will ease some of this light air problem. Remembering to filp the backstay when you tack will also cure the "hang up." There are other devices which keep the backstay clear of the "roachy" sail when you tack. I think for what I do, they are too much trouble and cost too much. Smooth sailing, Ron s/v Counterpoint, Hunter 33.5
Hunter 28.5
I have a buddy at work with the same boat. I know he just replaced his main, and I will ask him what he got. I have crewed on his boat many times. The 28.5 is a very nice boat, and very stable. Its like the Big Brother to my H 23. They look almost the same, except size. His Hunter is pretty darn fast, I know we have sailed over 08-09 kts out in the Chesapeake Bay. Scott
I have a buddy at work with the same boat. I know he just replaced his main, and I will ask him what he got. I have crewed on his boat many times. The 28.5 is a very nice boat, and very stable. Its like the Big Brother to my H 23. They look almost the same, except size. His Hunter is pretty darn fast, I know we have sailed over 08-09 kts out in the Chesapeake Bay. Scott
Mainsail
Bill, I am Scott's buddy. I sail my boat on the bay here in Portsmouth VA. I was not very happy with the boat's main, and bottom. As far as the main goes...I had BAXTERS SAIL LOFT of Norflok build me a new main for the boat. Hunter uses "cookie cutter" type sails. They are all the same and most do not fit the rigs for optimum preformance. Cant blame them it cuts cost to them and to us, at least up front. This is what BAXTER SAILS did for me. We started with a 7oz dacron cloth. Dont freek at the weight. It all works out. The top two battons are full leinght and the bottom two are tapered battons. This allowed us to increase the roach ( not alot but enough). We went with two rows of reefing points bottom row has four ties and the top row has three ties. I was able to increase the size of my main by about 24 sq feet. My roach passes the aft stay by about 4". If it is lite out I may have to pop the boom over but most of the time I dont have to worry about it. It has a great shape. I am sure it is why my boat is so fast now. I also worke the bottom of the boat. A good job here means speed. My boat likes to surf now. Some times I feel like I am sailing a Small race boat. I also have a custom rudder that some people don't like but when they are behind me and I am always pushing 7.5-8.5 knots I dont care what they think. If you want more info just drop me a line at MAXXWILK@CS.COM Scott
Bill, I am Scott's buddy. I sail my boat on the bay here in Portsmouth VA. I was not very happy with the boat's main, and bottom. As far as the main goes...I had BAXTERS SAIL LOFT of Norflok build me a new main for the boat. Hunter uses "cookie cutter" type sails. They are all the same and most do not fit the rigs for optimum preformance. Cant blame them it cuts cost to them and to us, at least up front. This is what BAXTER SAILS did for me. We started with a 7oz dacron cloth. Dont freek at the weight. It all works out. The top two battons are full leinght and the bottom two are tapered battons. This allowed us to increase the roach ( not alot but enough). We went with two rows of reefing points bottom row has four ties and the top row has three ties. I was able to increase the size of my main by about 24 sq feet. My roach passes the aft stay by about 4". If it is lite out I may have to pop the boom over but most of the time I dont have to worry about it. It has a great shape. I am sure it is why my boat is so fast now. I also worke the bottom of the boat. A good job here means speed. My boat likes to surf now. Some times I feel like I am sailing a Small race boat. I also have a custom rudder that some people don't like but when they are behind me and I am always pushing 7.5-8.5 knots I dont care what they think. If you want more info just drop me a line at MAXXWILK@CS.COM Scott
thanks for the info.
I placed an order with North because I was not getting alot of feedback from this site about a month ago and I liked some of the logic this loft was using. Most of the top boats around here seem to have Dacron mains and Mylar headsails. I hope to move up into a bigger boat in 5 years so that also pushed my decision for the dacron. I don't have the money to throw at new sails every 3 years when they "turn to dust" The Hunter 23 was my first boat. I am impressed you are racing that boat. I wasn't crazy about the winged keel but I learn alot on that boat. I e-mailed Scott alot of questions about what he has done to his boat. I am impressed that he pushes 8 knot reguarly. I probably should of asked them on the site for others. Thanks again. looking forward to seeing some more chatter.
I placed an order with North because I was not getting alot of feedback from this site about a month ago and I liked some of the logic this loft was using. Most of the top boats around here seem to have Dacron mains and Mylar headsails. I hope to move up into a bigger boat in 5 years so that also pushed my decision for the dacron. I don't have the money to throw at new sails every 3 years when they "turn to dust" The Hunter 23 was my first boat. I am impressed you are racing that boat. I wasn't crazy about the winged keel but I learn alot on that boat. I e-mailed Scott alot of questions about what he has done to his boat. I am impressed that he pushes 8 knot reguarly. I probably should of asked them on the site for others. Thanks again. looking forward to seeing some more chatter.
Scott
Scott, Just read your posting. Yes the B&R Rig will support a large roach main. If you don't have a Boom support I would get one and get rid of the topping line. "Boom Kicker Nice Item". Make sure your sailmaker cuts the main for the Prebend that your mast has. Also if Hilyards are old you might replace them with high tech or smaller lines. When you increase the size of the main high up you need to do every thing you can to reduce weight up high. I had a 31' and had 7/16 sta set lines. The boat pointed really good and was fast!
Scott, Just read your posting. Yes the B&R Rig will support a large roach main. If you don't have a Boom support I would get one and get rid of the topping line. "Boom Kicker Nice Item". Make sure your sailmaker cuts the main for the Prebend that your mast has. Also if Hilyards are old you might replace them with high tech or smaller lines. When you increase the size of the main high up you need to do every thing you can to reduce weight up high. I had a 31' and had 7/16 sta set lines. The boat pointed really good and was fast!
Fast Bottom
Having a "fast bottom" will really help improve performance and this is something you can do yourself. If you're using a paint like Petit Trinidad or equial with that orange peal finish it won't give you near the performance as some of the smooth paint finishes. Of course the next think one has to do is dive on the boat before every race. Secondly, work on the fairing of the bottom to reduce loss from turbulence and other drag sources. Our boat, a Hunter Legend 35 has all North sails now, except for one Lidgard storm jib and the OEM sails. I've been very happy with the performance of the new main which is full batten Dacron cruising cut with the next heaveir weight fabric so it won't get blown out so fast. The 150 tri-radial Norlam is a '91 sail and is fairly blown out. When it was new it was the absolute gratest; however, once Norlam is shot I understand it isn't suitable for recuting as it will keep stretching. To protect your investiment in sails, my recommendations is to reef or downsize the sail when conditions pipe up. Sailing with the rail in the water might seem like fun but it's hard on the sails and is probably slower. As for winning races, given that the equipment is competitive, it's to get over the start line when the gun goes off and preferably with a good position. It's amazing how many races I've been in where 2:30 minutes (in an 8 hour race) or 0:30 (in a two hour race) makes a difference between 4th and 2nd or even 1st. A good start is really important.
Having a "fast bottom" will really help improve performance and this is something you can do yourself. If you're using a paint like Petit Trinidad or equial with that orange peal finish it won't give you near the performance as some of the smooth paint finishes. Of course the next think one has to do is dive on the boat before every race. Secondly, work on the fairing of the bottom to reduce loss from turbulence and other drag sources. Our boat, a Hunter Legend 35 has all North sails now, except for one Lidgard storm jib and the OEM sails. I've been very happy with the performance of the new main which is full batten Dacron cruising cut with the next heaveir weight fabric so it won't get blown out so fast. The 150 tri-radial Norlam is a '91 sail and is fairly blown out. When it was new it was the absolute gratest; however, once Norlam is shot I understand it isn't suitable for recuting as it will keep stretching. To protect your investiment in sails, my recommendations is to reef or downsize the sail when conditions pipe up. Sailing with the rail in the water might seem like fun but it's hard on the sails and is probably slower. As for winning races, given that the equipment is competitive, it's to get over the start line when the gun goes off and preferably with a good position. It's amazing how many races I've been in where 2:30 minutes (in an 8 hour race) or 0:30 (in a two hour race) makes a difference between 4th and 2nd or even 1st. A good start is really important.
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