We are considering a 5 foot draft CS 36 Traditional. Any potential issues or trouble spots to be aware of? Are you happy with the sailing performance? Some owners have complained of lack of stowage, and poor engine access. Is the "V" drive an issue? And could 2 couples survive for a week? Thanks in advance.
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RE: CS 36T
The CS 36's are/were very, very well built boats. They are comparable to Sabre, Tartan, Cape Dory Bristol etc. in terms of build quality and they were ahead of their time in terms of features and design characteristics. The 36T was designed by Raymond Wall who had been the chief designer for Camper Nicholson (very high end European built boats read: Morris like quality) and the 36T was his first design after joining CS in Canada. He designed this boat like he designed Camper Nicholson's... for the North Seas.... Tough!! It is a heavy boat for it's size and type and the rated 15,500 displacement has been reported by many owners to be rather low in reality. With water, fuel and supplies most 36T's weigh in easily at over 17,000lbs.. I previously owned a a number of general production built sail boats and the difference is one you can feel.. literally! The CS is stiffer and handles rough weather without even batting an eye lash where my other boats would pound, shimmy, shake and creak in rough weather. My other boats were indeed faster in light air but the CS performs, tracks and sails much better in anything over 10 knots than any of my less robustly built boats did. If you mostly sail light air and are opposed to the iron genny the 36T may not be for you. If however you like to sail in all conditions with winds between 10 & 40+ the CS is a better choice for those conditions. Construction: The hull to deck joint, inward flange, is bomb proof and through BOLTED, NOT SCREWED, for the entire length of the vessel. The stringers, and there are many of them, are solid fiberglass beams with no wood to rot. She also has longitudinal foam cored stringers running bow to stern about a 16" bellow the cove stripe to stiffen the hull even more. The bulkheads are glassed into the hull, not free floating and screwed like many production boats are. There is no exterior teak, a big plus in my mind, and way ahead of the time. Even without the teak we get lots of compliments on her appearance and lines even though ours is a 1979! The teak joinery is very well done and above average for the era. There is no "fake wood" formica on the bulkheads.. The galley is very well laid out and she has a HUGE ice box. She carries plenty of water under port and sbd settees and decent fuel too. The head is amazing, big, and even my wife likes it. There is also no exposed wood in the head so showering / mold is not an issue at all. The cockpit is t-shaped, large and free flowing. The keel is external lead & through bolted with very high quality stainless bolts and very hefty backing plates. As far as I know I have not heard of any CS-36T keels needing re-setting yet. On our boat deck hardware was bedded with butyl rubber which has held up amazingly well! Most of the fittings on our boat, including the genny tracks, are still bone dry after nearly 30 years. It's the Little details CS did that I really enjoy. For instance; The genoa track, stanchions and toe rail all go through SOLID un-cored sections of the deck!! In 1979 these boats had dual built in LP tank storage! You don't find to many builders that employed even one LPG tank location, let alone two, in 1979 or even came close to, or met, ABYC regulations before the ABYC existed..! CS did.. The entire bilge of these boats is gel-coated! Even under the salon floor boards where you can't see. I have a major pet-peeve with builders NOT gelcoating bilges. The chain plates affix directly to the hull, not the bulkheads, via solid fiberglass, glassed in, load distribution points. The cabin sole in my boat is a full 3mm veneer! this means you can actually sand and re-finish the cabin sole many, many times! Just for reference a 4X8 sheet of teak and holly with a 3.0 mm veneer will set you back over 1k today!! Most other builders use the much less expensive veneer that is about 0.2mm thick. These are just a few of the little details that help these boats age well and hold their value. I've owned a lot of boats and this is the first boat I've owned that I do not feel the need to "upgrade" from. As with any boat care and maintenance are the most important features. If you can find a clean well cared for 36T buy it other wise continue looking! In short CS built way to much boat for the money to compete with Sabre, Tartan and the other high end productions builders. It was probably the US / Canadian exchange rate combined with all the "extras" they included that finally did them in. Had the US and Canadian dollar been as they are now there is no doubt in my mind that CS would still be in business today.. Feel free to check out my boats photo gallery and ask any questions you may have. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/cs36 My only two complaints are: #1 Steep companionway (you get used to it quickly) #2 Relatively shallow bilg(I have a PSS seal so it's no big deal.) P.S. Why are they so heavy? Heavy construction. This past Spring I installed a new seacock in the head. When I pulled the core plug out of my hole saw I was amazed. I pulled out my calipers & measured it at 3/4 of an inch thick! This through hull was quite a distance from the keel, where you'd expect thickness like that, yet the hull was still 3/4" thick solid fiberglass and a good distance from the keel.. The v-drives have been a non issue..
The CS 36's are/were very, very well built boats. They are comparable to Sabre, Tartan, Cape Dory Bristol etc. in terms of build quality and they were ahead of their time in terms of features and design characteristics. The 36T was designed by Raymond Wall who had been the chief designer for Camper Nicholson (very high end European built boats read: Morris like quality) and the 36T was his first design after joining CS in Canada. He designed this boat like he designed Camper Nicholson's... for the North Seas.... Tough!! It is a heavy boat for it's size and type and the rated 15,500 displacement has been reported by many owners to be rather low in reality. With water, fuel and supplies most 36T's weigh in easily at over 17,000lbs.. I previously owned a a number of general production built sail boats and the difference is one you can feel.. literally! The CS is stiffer and handles rough weather without even batting an eye lash where my other boats would pound, shimmy, shake and creak in rough weather. My other boats were indeed faster in light air but the CS performs, tracks and sails much better in anything over 10 knots than any of my less robustly built boats did. If you mostly sail light air and are opposed to the iron genny the 36T may not be for you. If however you like to sail in all conditions with winds between 10 & 40+ the CS is a better choice for those conditions. Construction: The hull to deck joint, inward flange, is bomb proof and through BOLTED, NOT SCREWED, for the entire length of the vessel. The stringers, and there are many of them, are solid fiberglass beams with no wood to rot. She also has longitudinal foam cored stringers running bow to stern about a 16" bellow the cove stripe to stiffen the hull even more. The bulkheads are glassed into the hull, not free floating and screwed like many production boats are. There is no exterior teak, a big plus in my mind, and way ahead of the time. Even without the teak we get lots of compliments on her appearance and lines even though ours is a 1979! The teak joinery is very well done and above average for the era. There is no "fake wood" formica on the bulkheads.. The galley is very well laid out and she has a HUGE ice box. She carries plenty of water under port and sbd settees and decent fuel too. The head is amazing, big, and even my wife likes it. There is also no exposed wood in the head so showering / mold is not an issue at all. The cockpit is t-shaped, large and free flowing. The keel is external lead & through bolted with very high quality stainless bolts and very hefty backing plates. As far as I know I have not heard of any CS-36T keels needing re-setting yet. On our boat deck hardware was bedded with butyl rubber which has held up amazingly well! Most of the fittings on our boat, including the genny tracks, are still bone dry after nearly 30 years. It's the Little details CS did that I really enjoy. For instance; The genoa track, stanchions and toe rail all go through SOLID un-cored sections of the deck!! In 1979 these boats had dual built in LP tank storage! You don't find to many builders that employed even one LPG tank location, let alone two, in 1979 or even came close to, or met, ABYC regulations before the ABYC existed..! CS did.. The entire bilge of these boats is gel-coated! Even under the salon floor boards where you can't see. I have a major pet-peeve with builders NOT gelcoating bilges. The chain plates affix directly to the hull, not the bulkheads, via solid fiberglass, glassed in, load distribution points. The cabin sole in my boat is a full 3mm veneer! this means you can actually sand and re-finish the cabin sole many, many times! Just for reference a 4X8 sheet of teak and holly with a 3.0 mm veneer will set you back over 1k today!! Most other builders use the much less expensive veneer that is about 0.2mm thick. These are just a few of the little details that help these boats age well and hold their value. I've owned a lot of boats and this is the first boat I've owned that I do not feel the need to "upgrade" from. As with any boat care and maintenance are the most important features. If you can find a clean well cared for 36T buy it other wise continue looking! In short CS built way to much boat for the money to compete with Sabre, Tartan and the other high end productions builders. It was probably the US / Canadian exchange rate combined with all the "extras" they included that finally did them in. Had the US and Canadian dollar been as they are now there is no doubt in my mind that CS would still be in business today.. Feel free to check out my boats photo gallery and ask any questions you may have. http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/cs36 My only two complaints are: #1 Steep companionway (you get used to it quickly) #2 Relatively shallow bilg(I have a PSS seal so it's no big deal.) P.S. Why are they so heavy? Heavy construction. This past Spring I installed a new seacock in the head. When I pulled the core plug out of my hole saw I was amazed. I pulled out my calipers & measured it at 3/4 of an inch thick! This through hull was quite a distance from the keel, where you'd expect thickness like that, yet the hull was still 3/4" thick solid fiberglass and a good distance from the keel.. The v-drives have been a non issue..
I can vouch for the beauty of MS's boat
Not quite as pretty as mine but she does turn heads ;-) Of course I still have not sailed her so I cannot speak to that(hint, hint) You gonna make the race on Wed. MS? We are defending our first place standings after 3 races. You missed a good one last week. We aced the start and beat Moondance by over 3 minutes. And we had only 3 of us crewing.
Not quite as pretty as mine but she does turn heads ;-) Of course I still have not sailed her so I cannot speak to that(hint, hint) You gonna make the race on Wed. MS? We are defending our first place standings after 3 races. You missed a good one last week. We aced the start and beat Moondance by over 3 minutes. And we had only 3 of us crewing.
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