Questions about a Solent rig

[robertsapp]

We recently bought a Hunter 336 which has what is basically a Solent rig - two headstays with the working jib (110%) on the inner and a gennaker on the outer. Both on furlers. Actually, the gennaker if off the boat at the moment, but I'm preparing to re-rig it. Need to buy sheets first. So here's my question. The slot between the two headstays is less than a foot. There's no way to tack the gennaker through that tight a space. Do I plan on rolling up the gennaker and unrolling it on the new course to tack, or do I get sheets long enough to run the lazy sheet around the front of the luff, and let the sail blow downwind to tack? Not really sure how this rig should be sailed.

 

[Todd Smith]

I assume you mean gybe, not tack, since it is a gennaker. I would rig it for outside gybes, like you said "run the lazy sheet around the front of the luff". That's how I have sailed assymetric spinnakers in the past.

 

[RichH]

the more forward headstay requires that you either completely furl the sail when tacking/gybing OR do an 'out and around' gybe .... even a 270 degree gybe instead of tacking.

There is a PROBLEM with a boat rigged with solent stays ...... you need an additional independent backstay or running backstays to carry the loads. If you are configured with solent stays and only tension a SINGLE backstay to the normal 15% of tension theoretically BOTH of the headstays will only be tensioned to 7.5% .... and that low tension will lead to VERY poor sail shape when your are beating/pointing.

If you long term tension a single backstay to over 30% tension (15% for each headstay) you will find very quickly that you will be subject to an increase in the potential of catastrophic fatigue failure of the backstay. Under ~30% and its fine vs. fatigue; but, over 30% and the 'life span' greatly decreases. Plus if you leave a boat with very tight rigging, you can expect over time that the boat will deform ... into the shape of a banana. A boat rigged with solent stays also needs a heavier sectioned mast to react to the increased compression loads. :-O

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

the more forward headstay requires that you either completely furl the sail when tacking/gybing OR do an 'out and around' gybe .... even a 270 degree gybe instead of tacking.

There is a PROBLEM with a boat rigged with solent stays ...... you need an additional independent backstay or running backstays to carry the loads. If you are configured with solent stays and only tension a SINGLE backstay to the normal 15% of tension theoretically BOTH of the headstays will only be tensioned to 7.5% .... and that low tension will lead to VERY poor sail shape when your are beating/pointing.

If you long term tension a single backstay to over 30% tension (15% for each headstay) you will find very quickly that you will be subject to an increase in the potential of catastrophic fatigue failure of the backstay. Under ~30% and its fine vs. fatigue; but, over 30% and the 'life span' greatly decreases. Plus if you leave a boat with very tight rigging, you can expect over time that the boat will deform ... into the shape of a banana. A boat rigged with solent stays also needs a heavier sectioned mast to react to the increased compression loads. :-O

I have a solent setup on my boat and put a bit of thought into the rig tension. Headstay tacks at the stem, forestay tacks to the bowsprit.

First off the backstay/headstay tension is not 1:1 For a masthead rig very few boats have mast to backstay = mast to headstay. You have to do some math to figure out the ratios for each boat.

My headstay is about 15/16ths (very close to the masthead) so no running backs to fuss with.

There are no PROBLEMS with the rig if set up properly.

Third the headstay uses hanked on sails. The working jib and strom jib, the Genoa is a furling sail on the forestay.

I calibrated the backstay adjuster to give maximum forestay tension when at 100% with no tension on the headstay. Since the Genoa never sees wind that requires 100% forestay tension, I can put some tension into the headstay that leaves the forestay tight enough for any breeze I use the Genoa. When I know it is going to be a working jib sort of day, I add some head stay tension being careful not to put the backstay over about 35-40% when at 100% adjustment. The turnbuckle is marked so I can repeat settings.

Tacking is a hassle with a Genoa in any case. The Genoa only gets rolled out when I won't be tacking frequently. The penalty for sailing with a 100 Jib compared to a 135 to 150% Genoa is very small in any breeze over 10 knots. Genoas only pay below 10 knots true and on reaches too close for a spinnaker.

My spinnaker goes up at about 85 degrees TWA so the only range the Genoa fills is 40-85.

Spinnaker Reach at 80 degrees TWA

I like the rig for relaxed cruising, I take the headstay off the boat when racing.

The only problem I have with Solent rigs is when there are two furlers ... where does the storm jib set?

 

[robertsapp]

Yes, I did mean gybe, and not tack, sorry for the mistake. Although it does raise the question whether it's easier to tack by furling the gennaker, or do a 270 degree gybe. Guess we'll have to try both and see which we prefer. But here's where it gets really interesting. First, there's no backstay. It's a 1995 Hunter 336 - a B&R rig. So while I follow the discussion about adjusting the backstay, it's not an option. Don't have one! Next, it's a fractional rig. Not sure exactly, but I'd estimate about a 4/5ths fractional. Finally, it's not a true Solent rig. The headstay isn't really fixed - the gennaker is actually a wire luff sail on a furler and tensioned with a halyard. I don't know for sure, but I think the PO was probably taking it down when not in use since there's no sun shield on the sail, and I found it coiled up in the aft cabin when we bought the boat. I'd like to get a sun shield sewn on, rig and tension the sail, and leave it up. I figured I'd put just enough tension on it to take the sag out, without putting too much additional forward pull on the mast. Would this be a mistake, overstressing the rig? I only plan to use the sail on light wind days, most likely below 10 knots, and we're strictly cruisers, not much interested in racing. We have a Yamaha jet boat when we feel the need for speed.

 

[Todd Smith]

Given your cruising plans, I would just rig the gennaker when you wanted to use it and leave it in a bag the rest of the time. You will shorten the life of the sail by leaving it up all the time. And it will just be extra windage. I do understand the desire for convience though

I doubt that you will ever need to actually tack the gennaker. You would only be using this sail on a reach or downwind. If you were just out for a sail and were reaching one way and then wanted to reach back the other, just gybe around.

 

[robertsapp]

One of the reasons I want to leave it up is because it won't fit in a bag. It has a wire luff - the same type and size wire as my forestay and shrouds. So it coils up in a bundle about 4 or 5 feet in diameter, which pretty much fills up the entire V berth or aft cabin. So permanently rigging it gets it out of the way. Because it's such a pain to store, it's currently sitting in my garage, which isn't really doing me any good! From what I understand, the sail is actually a gennaker from a Gemini catamaran. Anyway, I really had no idea how much line to order for sheets. Sounds like the emerging consensus is I need enough to go around the headstay. That's what I needed to know.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

Yes, I did mean gybe, and not tack, sorry for the mistake. Although it does raise the question whether it's easier to tack by furling the gennaker, or do a 270 degree gybe. Guess we'll have to try both and see which we prefer. But here's where it gets really interesting. First, there's no backstay. It's a 1995 Hunter 336 - a B&R rig. So while I follow the discussion about adjusting the backstay, it's not an option. Don't have one! Next, it's a fractional rig. Not sure exactly, but I'd estimate about a 4/5ths fractional. Finally, it's not a true Solent rig. The headstay isn't really fixed - the gennaker is actually a wire luff sail on a furler and tensioned with a halyard. I don't know for sure, but I think the PO was probably taking it down when not in use since there's no sun shield on the sail, and I found it coiled up in the aft cabin when we bought the boat. I'd like to get a sun shield sewn on, rig and tension the sail, and leave it up. I figured I'd put just enough tension on it to take the sag out, without putting too much additional forward pull on the mast. Would this be a mistake, overstressing the rig? I only plan to use the sail on light wind days, most likely below 10 knots, and we're strictly cruisers, not much interested in racing. We have a Yamaha jet boat when we feel the need for speed.

The rig is not a Solent. Leaving the Gennaker up will hurt the boat's performance upwind and close reaching. Think of the sail as you would a spinnaker. It just uses a furler for ease of handling rather than a sock.

Adding UV protection to the leech and foot will make the sail heavier. It will not fly as well in the light stuff where it is most useful.

True Solent rigs are best suited to boats in higher wind areas where the working jib is used most of the time. For lighter wind areas where the Genoa is the primary headsail, Solent rigs are a pain.

 

[Moody Buccaneer]

One of the reasons I want to leave it up is because it won't fit in a bag. It has a wire luff - the same type and size wire as my forestay and shrouds. So it coils up in a bundle about 4 or 5 feet in diameter, which pretty much fills up the entire V berth or aft cabin. So permanently rigging it gets it out of the way. Because it's such a pain to store, it's currently sitting in my garage, which isn't really doing me any good! From what I understand, the sail is actually a gennaker from a Gemini catamaran. Anyway, I really had no idea how much line to order for sheets. Sounds like the emerging consensus is I need enough to go around the headstay. That's what I needed to know.

Gennaker sheets should be twice the length of the boat.

Since the sail was not built for your boat, have you considered selling it and getting a proper offwind sail? The wire luff Gennaker for a catamaran will have the wrong sail shape for you, the Cats do often leave them set and put up with the extra weight and windage for easy sail handling.