I want to buy a new VHF radio with DSC. I know that if you interface a GPS unit with one of these radios, your exact coordinates would be transmitted along with your emergency signal. I also read a very brief comment that even without the GPS, the Rescue 21 system can triangulate on the emergency signal to get your approximate location. I've been unable to confirm this, however. Can anyone confirm this info, or is it incorrect? Thanks, Jack
Question on DSC radios
- Thread starter Cactus Jack
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It's those cheapskates in Congress
Jack, as I recall part of the "Rescue 21" concept is that the USCG will finally be given the budget allocation to buy equipment that pretty much every charter party fishing boat has had for thirty years now: Doppler direction finding gear on their VHF radios. Party boats routinely chat about where the fish are, and routinely lie to keep the competition away. So...most of them run doppler RDF gear so they can see the actual bearing of the guy they are talking with, and know where he might be. The USCG has asked for money to install the same gear for decades now. Install it at any two listening stations, and you can plot a quick fix to the vessel transmitting. If Congress ever releases full funding for Rescue 21, sure, the USCG can buy and install the equipment. It won't be as good as DSC+GPS, since one station will only get a bearing and two will need to hear you (and manually log your bearing) to get a fix on you, which will still be less precise than DSC+GPS. But since the USCG is still asking the USCGAux to find volunteer watchstanders to man the radios, because they don't have sufficient funding to fully staff base operations...All I can say is please, write to your CongressCritters. They just don't appreciate the job the USCG does, and how effective a few extra bucks can be at budget time.
Jack, as I recall part of the "Rescue 21" concept is that the USCG will finally be given the budget allocation to buy equipment that pretty much every charter party fishing boat has had for thirty years now: Doppler direction finding gear on their VHF radios. Party boats routinely chat about where the fish are, and routinely lie to keep the competition away. So...most of them run doppler RDF gear so they can see the actual bearing of the guy they are talking with, and know where he might be. The USCG has asked for money to install the same gear for decades now. Install it at any two listening stations, and you can plot a quick fix to the vessel transmitting. If Congress ever releases full funding for Rescue 21, sure, the USCG can buy and install the equipment. It won't be as good as DSC+GPS, since one station will only get a bearing and two will need to hear you (and manually log your bearing) to get a fix on you, which will still be less precise than DSC+GPS. But since the USCG is still asking the USCGAux to find volunteer watchstanders to man the radios, because they don't have sufficient funding to fully staff base operations...All I can say is please, write to your CongressCritters. They just don't appreciate the job the USCG does, and how effective a few extra bucks can be at budget time.
Won't help other boaters locate you
If it's an either/or situation for you , you might be well served to go ahead with the DSC/gps equipment now. Regardless of when the CG actually installs the new equipment in your area, it's still worthwhile having DSC gps coordinates to allow other boaters, who may be closer, to receive your signal and render assistance quicker than can the CG.
If it's an either/or situation for you , you might be well served to go ahead with the DSC/gps equipment now. Regardless of when the CG actually installs the new equipment in your area, it's still worthwhile having DSC gps coordinates to allow other boaters, who may be closer, to receive your signal and render assistance quicker than can the CG.
Thanks, Rick.
The Rescue 21 system is active in my area (Tampa Bay), so it's good to know they could find me pretty easily. I don't have GPS on my boat, nor do I feel it would be worth the expense, considering my wife and I are strictly fair-weather sailors and only along the ICW and close to shore in the Gulf. Jack
The Rescue 21 system is active in my area (Tampa Bay), so it's good to know they could find me pretty easily. I don't have GPS on my boat, nor do I feel it would be worth the expense, considering my wife and I are strictly fair-weather sailors and only along the ICW and close to shore in the Gulf. Jack
Not worth the expense?
Assuming (yes, I know) you are replacing the VHF, is your life really worth less than another $150? While not an ideal setup, you can interface a hand held model GPS with the DSC equipped radio. build a mount next to the companionway for the GPS (be sure it gets a fix there) and run the cables to the radio's power circuit and radio (that way the GPS has power when the radio does). The time savings for someone to have your location handed to them by the radio instead of having to triangulate from 2 or more receivers could be several min. That's enough time to make a big difference in a life or death situation, even if you only sail close to shore and along the ICW. Add in the bonus that other boaters also get your position and can come to your aid more quickly and for me it is a no brainer.
Assuming (yes, I know) you are replacing the VHF, is your life really worth less than another $150? While not an ideal setup, you can interface a hand held model GPS with the DSC equipped radio. build a mount next to the companionway for the GPS (be sure it gets a fix there) and run the cables to the radio's power circuit and radio (that way the GPS has power when the radio does). The time savings for someone to have your location handed to them by the radio instead of having to triangulate from 2 or more receivers could be several min. That's enough time to make a big difference in a life or death situation, even if you only sail close to shore and along the ICW. Add in the bonus that other boaters also get your position and can come to your aid more quickly and for me it is a no brainer.
I dont understand
For the DSC feature to transmit location, you need a GPS aboard, correct? If you have a GPS aboard, aren't you going to announce your location verbally over the radio when requesting assistance, so you get this information to all VHF radios, not just DSC equiped ones, correct? So in an emergency, is the DSC/GPS benefit limited to those situations, where the radio operator doesn't know how to read a GPS, meaning the experienced crew are disabled?
For the DSC feature to transmit location, you need a GPS aboard, correct? If you have a GPS aboard, aren't you going to announce your location verbally over the radio when requesting assistance, so you get this information to all VHF radios, not just DSC equiped ones, correct? So in an emergency, is the DSC/GPS benefit limited to those situations, where the radio operator doesn't know how to read a GPS, meaning the experienced crew are disabled?
Get A GPS
They are fairly cheap now and make a big difference in being able to know your position and your way. You will use it more than you think. The big advantage to the GPS hooked up to the DSC VHF is the little red button that brodcasts your position with a distress signal. The person who needs help may be you and the other person on the boat may not know how to work a GPS or a VHF but they can lift the cover and push the red button to get help out to you. The other advantage is it frees you from making the radio call and you can focus on what the problem is rather than messing with the radio.
They are fairly cheap now and make a big difference in being able to know your position and your way. You will use it more than you think. The big advantage to the GPS hooked up to the DSC VHF is the little red button that brodcasts your position with a distress signal. The person who needs help may be you and the other person on the boat may not know how to work a GPS or a VHF but they can lift the cover and push the red button to get help out to you. The other advantage is it frees you from making the radio call and you can focus on what the problem is rather than messing with the radio.
close to shore?
Jack: "close to shore"? What difference does that make if you loose your rudder and you are blown 10, 20, 30 miles out to sea? You can purchase a cheap unit for less than $200 that "may" save your life. Even if you do not hook one up to the DCS Radio, you can give someone your coordinates so they have a spot to start lookin'.
Jack: "close to shore"? What difference does that make if you loose your rudder and you are blown 10, 20, 30 miles out to sea? You can purchase a cheap unit for less than $200 that "may" save your life. Even if you do not hook one up to the DCS Radio, you can give someone your coordinates so they have a spot to start lookin'.
Thanks all!
Thanks for all the comments; good stuff. When I mentioned the GPS, I was thinking of the mounted "marine" models, which appear to start at around $500. Didn't realize the hand-held models could also be interfaced to the radio. Steve - Where we sail, it's rarely more than 10' - 15' deep. If I were to lose the rudder, an anchor or two would easily hold the boat in place. (This DID happen to me many years ago, but that's another story....) Jack
Thanks for all the comments; good stuff. When I mentioned the GPS, I was thinking of the mounted "marine" models, which appear to start at around $500. Didn't realize the hand-held models could also be interfaced to the radio. Steve - Where we sail, it's rarely more than 10' - 15' deep. If I were to lose the rudder, an anchor or two would easily hold the boat in place. (This DID happen to me many years ago, but that's another story....) Jack
DSC
First, DSC stands for Digital Selective Calling. A Federal Law was passed that all permanent mount VHF marine radios installed into new boats after 1999 be DSC equipped. There are several models available at West Marine for $150 or less. Wait for the sales and use your member coupon vouchers to bring the price even lower. The DSC button won't do anything if you don't have any GPS hooked to it. DSC transmits data signals over VHF channel 70 and is required to be monitored by large commercial vessels. A used basic GPS with a data cable connector on ebay is worth the $50 or so in the event the crew becomes incapacitated and is unable to transmit the Lat/Long over the radio. Once the DSC button is pressed, the data is continuously transmitted/updated to reflect your current position. If you can afford to own a boat legally (registration, sales tax, title, waterway fee, excise tax, ect), then you can afford a DSC radio and a used GPS, especially if it's more than just your life on the boat.
First, DSC stands for Digital Selective Calling. A Federal Law was passed that all permanent mount VHF marine radios installed into new boats after 1999 be DSC equipped. There are several models available at West Marine for $150 or less. Wait for the sales and use your member coupon vouchers to bring the price even lower. The DSC button won't do anything if you don't have any GPS hooked to it. DSC transmits data signals over VHF channel 70 and is required to be monitored by large commercial vessels. A used basic GPS with a data cable connector on ebay is worth the $50 or so in the event the crew becomes incapacitated and is unable to transmit the Lat/Long over the radio. Once the DSC button is pressed, the data is continuously transmitted/updated to reflect your current position. If you can afford to own a boat legally (registration, sales tax, title, waterway fee, excise tax, ect), then you can afford a DSC radio and a used GPS, especially if it's more than just your life on the boat.
DSC is cheap
Hello, DSC radios are cheap! You can get a cheap fixed mount (25W) for about $100. Of course you will need a GPS as well, but those are also cheap (another $100), and the antenna. I am in the market for a new DSC radio. The model I have selected is the Standard Horizon GX1500S. This is a class D receiver, meaning it has two receivers, one that always monitors channel 70 (DSC) channel, and another that you set to whatever channel you want. The GX1500S can also display the GPS data, such as speed, course, LAT / LONG, etc. So it can work like a repeater. You can buy this radio lots of places for around $150. I will have my chartplotter mounted at the helm and the radio in the cabin. When I'm in the cabin I can see where we are, etc. I am also going to buy the remote mike so I can use the radio from the helm. Good luck, Barry
Hello, DSC radios are cheap! You can get a cheap fixed mount (25W) for about $100. Of course you will need a GPS as well, but those are also cheap (another $100), and the antenna. I am in the market for a new DSC radio. The model I have selected is the Standard Horizon GX1500S. This is a class D receiver, meaning it has two receivers, one that always monitors channel 70 (DSC) channel, and another that you set to whatever channel you want. The GX1500S can also display the GPS data, such as speed, course, LAT / LONG, etc. So it can work like a repeater. You can buy this radio lots of places for around $150. I will have my chartplotter mounted at the helm and the radio in the cabin. When I'm in the cabin I can see where we are, etc. I am also going to buy the remote mike so I can use the radio from the helm. Good luck, Barry
Won't do anything?
From Tim Haibach: "The DSC button won't do anything if you don't have any GPS hooked to it." If I'm understanding DSC correctly, this is NOT true. When you press the "emergency" button, the radio will transmit an automatic distress signal, including the registered ID number of your radio. The Coast Guard and possibly other vessels will respond by radio. This is from the description of a typical DSC radio: "Its Digital Selective Calling feature allows you to send out a distress message with your vessel's unique ID number, plus (when connected to a GPS) your precise coordinates, allowing rescue agencies to know of your plight." Jack
From Tim Haibach: "The DSC button won't do anything if you don't have any GPS hooked to it." If I'm understanding DSC correctly, this is NOT true. When you press the "emergency" button, the radio will transmit an automatic distress signal, including the registered ID number of your radio. The Coast Guard and possibly other vessels will respond by radio. This is from the description of a typical DSC radio: "Its Digital Selective Calling feature allows you to send out a distress message with your vessel's unique ID number, plus (when connected to a GPS) your precise coordinates, allowing rescue agencies to know of your plight." Jack
I Wonder Why the GPS are not Built In to the Radio
Would be many who could use that unit. Larger boats as a backup radio and GPS day sailors as a primary. Maybe the answer is as simple as none of the GPS makers make radios or no radio manufacturers make GPSs.
Would be many who could use that unit. Larger boats as a backup radio and GPS day sailors as a primary. Maybe the answer is as simple as none of the GPS makers make radios or no radio manufacturers make GPSs.
GPS/VHF combination
Rick et al There are a few manufacturers that are currently marketing VHF handhelds which include GPS capability so as to enable DSC coordinates to be transmitted on the distress signal without having to wire in a stand-alone GPS. Among them are Mystic, Magellan and Icom, the latter two are usually advertized at only ham radio stores but any marine supplier can order them. I'm not aware of any fixed mount VHFs which currently have that capability but suspect there may soon be...
Rick et al There are a few manufacturers that are currently marketing VHF handhelds which include GPS capability so as to enable DSC coordinates to be transmitted on the distress signal without having to wire in a stand-alone GPS. Among them are Mystic, Magellan and Icom, the latter two are usually advertized at only ham radio stores but any marine supplier can order them. I'm not aware of any fixed mount VHFs which currently have that capability but suspect there may soon be...
More features than safety
I realize this is not as important as distress calls and safety, but DSC has another feature that is pretty neat ... You can call a boat or group of boats with out filling the hailing channels with chatter (they're full enough). If the other boats have DSC radios, just put their unique numbers into your radio and you can hail them "privately" Just a little added bonus. Rob
I realize this is not as important as distress calls and safety, but DSC has another feature that is pretty neat ... You can call a boat or group of boats with out filling the hailing channels with chatter (they're full enough). If the other boats have DSC radios, just put their unique numbers into your radio and you can hail them "privately" Just a little added bonus. Rob
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