Question about Xantrex Echo Charge

[weinie]

My 27' boat is currently equipped with an 1/2/both switch, 36w solar panel w/ controller, and
an AC battery charger with 2 outputs.

For times when I am not docked, I would prefer the security to know both batteries are being charged either by solar or by alternator.

My plan was to have a dedicated house battery and a dedicated starter battery, replace the battery switch w/ the blue seas on/off/parallel switch and add xantrex echo charge. The alternator and solar controller would be connected directly to the house battery.

The question is whether the dual output AC charger will screw up the xantrex unit when the charger is plugged in since it needs to be connected to both batteries to work? Or do I need to get a new charger?

 

[Bill Roosa]

You would have to disconnect the charger and see of there is a circuit between the two + wires. A simple ohm meter with a diode checker will suffice.
Measure for a diode in both directions. If there is a high resistance in both directions you should be fine. If there is a low resistance in one direction then you need to hook up the charger so the current cannot go from the solar charged batter to the non-solar charged battery. The echo charger will take care of the non-solar charged battery.
If there is a circuit in both direction then you can either install diodes or get a new charger that does speerate the charging circuits.

 

[Maine Sail]

My 27' boat is currently equipped with an 1/2/both switch, 36w solar panel w/ controller, and
an AC battery charger with 2 outputs.

For times when I am not docked, I would prefer the security to know both batteries are being charged either by solar or by alternator.

My plan was to have a dedicated house battery and a dedicated starter battery, replace the battery switch w/ the blue seas on/off/parallel switch and add xantrex echo charge. The alternator and solar controller would be connected directly to the house battery.

The question is whether the dual output AC charger will screw up the xantrex unit when the charger is plugged in since it needs to be connected to both batteries to work? Or do I need to get a new charger?

What charger? Often you can just combine the outputs to one battery bank and get the full output of the charger... Hard to tell for sure if we don't know what the charger is...

Keep in mind too that when charging off solar the Echo or an ACR will draw some standby current, about 0.05A for the echo and to charge it burns even more current, that is why there are heat vents on it because it is not 100% efficient..

While very minimal, over 24 hours the 0.05A standby alone amounts to about 1.2A/day. With a small array, producing output only 4-5 hours of the day, you can eat into the gains.

I often turn off my charge management device off when on solar as the start bank is almost always at 100% state of charge anyway. With a big enough array it does not matter but I see lots of folks with 10W panels where this could matter. How big will your array be?

 

[weinie]

I have a promariner 20 installed. From the manual:

"The ProSport's Distributed-On-Demand™ Multi-Stage Charging Technology will
automatically sense and distribute 100% of the available charging amp output,
8,12,or 20 amps (model specific) to any one bank or combination of all banks. Each
battery bank output is fully isolated."

The solar panel is 36W. My controller, is an older lyncom model that other than having a high and low voltage cutoff, basically puts out 14.1V to a single battery. It has a nice digital readout (I know it burns mAs) that lets me press a button to check the panels out put. Randomly checking on various days shows an output ranging around 1-2A.

My alternator is original putting out about 55A (I believe).

My batteries are 3 year old westmarine basic starting batteries.

Other than basic cabin lights, nav lights, bilge pump, I have the following that uses juice.
VHF & instruments, autopilot, xm radio (~3A), and ELECTRIC head.

I think honestly, I like to be able to just throw off the docklines and go. Disconnecting the dockside cable and coiling it up each time is something I like to avoid since the previous owner put this really nice panel and controller on.

Edited:
Right now my solar is hooked up to the common on the battery switch so I can charge either battery I choose. I also use the same battery for starting and "house" use. I would just prefer to have the second battery topped off just in case and to keep both topped off without having to remember to manually switch back and forth.

 

[bria46]

I also have a promariner 20. Very easy to hook up.

 

[Maine Sail]

I have a promariner 20 installed. From the manual:

"The ProSport's Distributed-On-Demand™ Multi-Stage Charging Technology will
automatically sense and distribute 100% of the available charging amp output,
8,12,or 20 amps (model specific) to any one bank or combination of all banks. Each
battery bank output is fully isolated."

You can just connect both + outputs of the charger to the house bank if using an ECHO and the - return also goes to the house bank as well.. If you leave one + lead disconnected the charger will not operate correctly as they are voltage sensing chargers meaning all leads need to see a voltage before they do anything..

 

[weinie]

Maine,
Judging from your second to last post, you didn't seem too thrilled about going with this setup given the limited amount of current the panel produces in a day.
Is the expense (about $200) to do this worth it, or am I better off trying to remember to just switch from battery 1 over to battery 2 every week or so?

Incidently, I realized my "service on" light is rated at 1.2 watts, meaning that little light alone burns over 2A a day! Since I wired my solar controller's output to my 1/2/B switch, the service, and hence the light, need to be on when charging with the solar panel. I suppose I'd better disable or replace that light if I don't go with the xantrex, since I would still need the ability to switch which battery my solar will charge. If I did install the xantrex however, I would wire the solar controller directly to the house battery avoiding that problem since the service would be kept "off" when I'm not on the boat.

Edited:
oh, and incidently, the charge controller self-consumes 13mA according to the specs.
With the xantrex's consumption, and the service, light, that's almost 4A/day!

 

[Maine Sail]

Maine,
Judging from your second to last post, you didn't seem too thrilled about going with this setup given the limited amount of current the panel produces in a day.
Is the expense (about $200) to do this worth it, or am I better off trying to remember to just switch from battery 1 over to battery 2 every week or so?

Incidently, I realized my "service on" light is rated at 1.2 watts, meaning that little light alone burns over 2A a day! Since I wired my solar controller's output to my 1/2/B switch, the service, and hence the light, need to be on when charging with the solar panel. I suppose I'd better disable or replace that light if I don't go with the xantrex, since I would still need the ability to switch which battery my solar will charge. If I did install the xantrex however, I would wire the solar controller directly to the house battery avoiding that problem since the service would be kept "off" when I'm not on the boat.

Edited:
oh, and incidently, the charge controller self-consumes 13mA according to the specs.
With the xantrex's consumption, and the service, light, that's almost 4A/day!

What size is the panel?

A good new option, just recently introduced to the US market, for small panels is a ProLatch-R. It is a latching style relay that consumes virtually no power to "combine" the batteries. They are programmable and have a remote control option.. They only draw .5mA...

ProLatch-R

 

[weinie]

36W

 

[weinie]

Any opinion regarding the yandina 100 combiner?
Its much cheaper ($55 at defender) than either the echo charger or the blue seas ACR.
Plus, it also comes prewired, saving on costs of battery cable (which I would need on the ACR).
And like the ACR, it dosn't care if my alternator wire goes to my switch instead of directly to a battery.
Best of all, it says it dosn't draw any current when not charging.

 

[Stu Jackson]

w, Maine Sail discusses these issues in his 1-2-B Switch topic:

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615

I've had a combiner for 12 years. Works fine if you read the directions and consider putting a shutoff switch in the negative lead to turn it off when motoring for long distances.

A combiner is different than an echo charger, but much like an ACR, but with usually a single voltage opening & closing setting (i.e., it can't be adjusted like an ACR).

 

[Maine Sail]

Any opinion regarding the yandina 100 combiner?
Its much cheaper ($55 at defender) than either the echo charger or the blue seas ACR.
Plus, it also comes prewired, saving on costs of battery cable (which I would need on the ACR).
And like the ACR, it dosn't care if my alternator wire goes to my switch instead of directly to a battery.
Best of all, it says it dosn't draw any current when not charging.

Excellent product with an UNCONDITIONAL warranty.

 

[weinie]

Sounds good. I'll take some pictures after the installation and report back.

One more thing...

I guess the time couldn't be better to fuse my battery wiring.
The wiring from my batteries to my switch (about 10ft) and back down to the starter and alternator (prob. another 10ft tops) is 4awg (All though I will check this).

I was considering the blue seas terminal fuse for ease of install with a 200A fuse on both batteries. On the end of each, I would connect the appropriate wire to the switch plus the wire to the combiner.

Would I be safe in using this size fuse for both wires?

Edit...Never mind... I just read this http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/75552-battery-fuse-sizing-how-what.html

 

[Solstice]

You can just connect both + outputs of the charger to the house bank if using an ECHO and the - return also goes to the house bank as well.. If you leave one + lead disconnected the charger will not operate correctly as they are voltage sensing chargers meaning all leads need to see a voltage before they do anything..

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but this comment caught my attention. I have a Charles 5000 SP and I did disconnect the lead to my reserve battery cuz it is an AGM and much smaller than my 400 amp house bank. Could you elaborate on what to look for as far as my charger not working correctly? Thanks MS...

 

[Maine Sail]

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but this comment caught my attention. I have a Charles 5000 SP and I did disconnect the lead to my reserve battery cuz it is an AGM and much smaller than my 400 amp house bank. Could you elaborate on what to look for as far as my charger not working correctly? Thanks MS...

What about it is not working correctly? Every charger will have different ways to set it up. That comment was for the ProSport not other chargers...

 

[Solstice]

What about it is not working correctly? Every charger will have different ways to set it up. That comment was for the ProSport not other chargers...

Thanks for the clarification MS. The only thing that I can point to that seems a bit strange is the float voltage seems to be on the high side. However I don't believe it is a function on the charger not working to spec. I have a call into Charles to confirm what it should be. It's just your comment caught my attention since I have a single lead connection. As always, thanks for your response!