Question about a honda 9.9 - electrics

[rgranger]

Hey All

I'm in a quandary. I just took possession of a very well kept Hunter 26 and it came with a 2014 Honda 9.9 manual start O.B. The P.O. told me that it did not have an alternator (he thinks) but as I was running things down on the electric system I found a set of wires coming from the O.B. and going to the batteries. I'm thinking that maybe I just got a bonus... so I disconnect the plug at the O.B. and measure the voltage coming off the motor while at idle... ZERO volts! So I dig out the owners manual and it says that if you are getting no current off of the alternator, you should check the fuse... I open the cowl and find the fuse box... fuse looks fine.... I also find the spare fuse and just to be sure I swap them. Still no joy.

So here is my question... Would Honda go to all of the trouble (and expense) to install of the electric wiring and circuitry for a charging system if the O.B. does not have an alternator? Did Honda even release a 2014 9.9HP w/o a charging system?

I would feel like a HUGE dope if I took my O.B. to my mechanic and asked him to look at the charging system only to have him tell me a $100 later that my O.B. does not have a charging system.... :-(

Any other ideas of how to run this down?

Thanks in advance
r

 

[kloudie1]

From literature on the net, it looks like a 6 ampere charger is built in. It appears to have a bunch of connectors between the flywheel coil and the battery output, so I would start following the wires from the connector back.. There should be a diode pack (rectifier) built in but no regulator. Check that all the connectors are good and clean. The output of small engines is really small and only starts kicking in about mid RPM. At idle, it would be very low/none. Your owners manual should have an electrical diagram that can get ya going..

EDIT: looks like gray wire from the flywheel housing to the regulator/rectifier, then green and red to the battery connection

 

[marke14]

Does the motor have a "start" button? Is it possible that it's an electric start w/ alternator?

I have a Honda 9.9 on our boat, which I believe to be a 2002 model. We have electric start and an alternator (or whatever the charging/generation unit is called), which never worked until I replaced the PO's batteries. I believe they all have the pull-start cord and handle as a backup.

As Claude suggested, try metering those wires while you've got the thing chugging along at half throttle and see if you're getting any measurable output. A lot of smaller motors' alternators don't start working until they are turning significantly faster than idle. I'm thinking of my old Vulcan 500 motorcycle, which had a similar characteristic with its charging system.

Good luck! Our 9.9 has been very good to us.

 

[rgranger]

Thanks Guys.... That helps a lot.....I'll start with simple and try again at half throttle... then if no joy... I'll start running it down.

I have a strong feeling that this boat took a surge or nearby lighting strike. Half of the fuses in the switch bank were blown and all of the nav. lights are completely missing the filament. I put new nav. lights on this past Tuesday and got them working... still need to drop the mast to get at the top lights...and the battery charger seems dead and then this strange thing with the O.B. The P.O. told me everything was working and I know the guy and believe he was telling the truth... so... surge(?)

Once I get the electric issues sorted... I'm going sailing....

 

[kloudie1]

May have fried the diodes in the alternator.. but maybe ya got lucky and all ya need is a smidge more RPM. It is a good sign that the fuse wasn't blown. I notice that they rate the alternator at 6000 RPM, so it has to be spinning pretty well to make output..

 

[Stu Jackson]

In general, an alternator needs a battery at the other end to work. In most cases, NOT having an output "destination", i.e., a battery, at the other end WILL fry the diodes because the alternator output has nowhere to go.

Given that, ITWMB, I'd get the serial number of the engine and do a little internet sleuthing on the engine manufacturer's website and find out if that serial # and its subsequent designations and the string of numbers will tell you what was "supposed" to come with the engine.

If it has an alternator, before you run the engine balls out, hook it up to your batteries.

Good luck.

 

[walt]

NOT having an output "destination", i.e., a battery, at the other end WILL fry the diodes because the alternator output has nowhere to go.

Those small outboards will run just fine without a battery connected up - and it wont hurt the rectifier diodes (check your manual - in very rare cases would it say you must have a battery hooked up).. What you do want to avoid is to disconnect the output to the battery while the outboard is running. The failure mechanism is if the alternator coil is connected to a load (the battery), current is flowing in the coil. If the load is suddenly removed, the energy in the coil produces a big voltage transient and it is this big voltage transient that damages the rectifier (reverse breakdown). Operation of the outboard without the load (battery) does produce an "open circuit voltage" but does not produce the big voltage transients - no damage.

If things are working correctly, you should see some voltage out of the output even at low rpm. It might be less than 12 volts which would seem that things are not working but if you put a scope on the output, you would see voltage spikes over 12 volts but with a low duty cycle. The hand held DVM tries to "rms" this (average) so it displays a low voltage.

Someone mentioned that that outboard may have a "rectifier / regulator" and now the circuit is a little more complicated than just a rectifier. A blown rectifier will usually still have some voltage output but I really dont know what a blown "rectifier / regulator" does. It may have zero output like you see. I dont know what that Honda circuit looks like but the circuit below if from a newer Tohatsu 9.8 hp. I attached this because it shows a "rec/reg" (rectifier / regulator). Older small outboards would just show a rectifier in the diagram.

 

[rgranger]

Thanks Walt

I have a scope.... I'll try that. This is not my picture... I found it on the web but, this is what the plug looks like coming out of the O.B. and I put my leads from the multimeter into the slots depicted by the arrows. (I hope Sumner sees my pretty yellow arrows

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Rob;
What if anything on the battery charger. I was told I installed that but if so, it was many years ago. If on the back rear berth wall that is not how I installed them but if on a built in platform behind then possibly I did. If lighting struck, it may be totaled and you will have to get a new one.

 

[rgranger]

Hi Dave

I have not run down the batter charger yet. I have not had time to get back to the boat. The charger is a Guest brand and it is installed on the back berth bulkhead with the leads going through the bulkhead. When I'm hooked to shore power, none of the lights come on so it almost seems like it is not getting any juice.... So I will have to unscrew that bulkhead so I can pull it and see where everything goes. Should be straight forward. I already have a spare charger (new in box) that I picked up on clearance years ago... so... if it is toast... I'll just swap it out. Jon also had a standard (shop style) charger with the shore power plug wired onto it... so I was able to use that back socket to charge the batteries. The two batteries that were in the boat were so dead they would not even take a partial charge when put on my shop charger. So that makes me wonder if Jon has had issues with his charging system for some time now.

I did get all of the nav. lights fixed/replaced with LEDs so that is all working and the fans and internal cabin lights as well as, dept and speed are all working again. So charger is last on the list... then... sail time...

... and before summer comes, I will install a solar panel on the mast crutch pole... I should be all set for a long cruise.