Peggy: I know you've answered this question before (many times) but I can't seem to put my finger/mouse on the answer in the archies. Sorry, but as you will see below, time is of the essence. This weekend I went to pumpout my holding tank ('93/37.5/orig alum tank) but the suction would not pull anything out of the tank. I know that the tank is full, but not enough so that anything is coming out of the vent (which I know is a bad idea.) We tried the marina hose in the bay and it pulled the bay water up like a charm, so I'm figuring something is wrong on my boat. This was the first pumpout of the season. when I launched the boat I flused fresh water through the system several times by filling the tank through the deck cap and emptying it using the macerator pump with no problems. Any idea what's going on now? I have standard setup, hose from head to tank, then "y" hoses to deck cap and macerator/overboard (latter is locked as required.) FYI- I was doing the pumpout because I'm pulling the old hoses and replacing them with the Sealand high-dollar hose, replacing vent, etc. Purchased and ready to go - but the tank won't. I would like to empty the tank before doing this work, so your advice would be appreciated. Don
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Lee Hadjiosif
Check vent and hoses
Don, It seems that either the vent is blocked or the hose from the tank to the deck fitting or the tank to the vent is collapsed or is collapsing during suction from the pump. I would check these during the pump-out. If you can't tell if the vent is blocked, remove the hose from the tank and blow on it.(cover it with plastic before putting your lips to it!!)
Don, It seems that either the vent is blocked or the hose from the tank to the deck fitting or the tank to the vent is collapsed or is collapsing during suction from the pump. I would check these during the pump-out. If you can't tell if the vent is blocked, remove the hose from the tank and blow on it.(cover it with plastic before putting your lips to it!!)
Have you tried....
Don: Have you tried switching the 'Y' valve position? Have you checked that the vent is not blocked? Have you tried pumping overboard?
Don: Have you tried switching the 'Y' valve position? Have you checked that the vent is not blocked? Have you tried pumping overboard?
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Peggie Hall/Headmistress
Blocked tank vent
Prob'ly at the thru-hull...that's where 99% of 'em are. When the vent is blocked, the pumpout suction pulls a vacuum and can't get anything out of the tank.
Prob'ly at the thru-hull...that's where 99% of 'em are. When the vent is blocked, the pumpout suction pulls a vacuum and can't get anything out of the tank.
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Don
Thanks for the advice - but Steve!
I will replace vent hose first, then try to do a pumpout. Steve - remember that I am on the Chesapeake Bay. Do you want me to break the law! I am shocked, especially from comming eco-conscious California. Unless of course you're planning to buy my 37.5 at a steal from the local authorities. Thanks everyone.
I will replace vent hose first, then try to do a pumpout. Steve - remember that I am on the Chesapeake Bay. Do you want me to break the law! I am shocked, especially from comming eco-conscious California. Unless of course you're planning to buy my 37.5 at a steal from the local authorities. Thanks everyone.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You don't need to replace the vent hose...
And if the blockage is in the vent thru-hull, it won't cure problem anyway. Check the vent thru-hull. My guess is that you'll find a dirt dauber nest in it. Clean it out (whatever it is) and you should be able to pump out. Tank vents 101 (I GOTTA find time to upload this to the HM forum library!): A tank cannot be emptied under vacuum. Unless air can be pulled in through the vent to replace the waste (or anything else in ANY container) being pulled out, a vacuum is created in which nothing more can be removed--but in which the suction CAN crack the tank. A blocked vent also prevents the air displaced by incoming contents from escaping, which results in a pressurized tank. This can have disastrous consequences--anything from blown out fittings to a cracked tank to a sewage geyser when the pumpout fitting cap is removed to a backup in the toilet. Follow these "rules" to prevent the above problems: 1. check your vent through-hull regularly...blast it out with a hose every time you wash the boat; 2. Never turn pumpout operation over to a dockhand and walk away. Stay there and watch to make certain that the tank is being completely pumped out. Terminate pumpout/dumping at sea immediately if waste stops flowing before the tank is empty. Do not try to pump out or dump the tank again until the vent has been cleared. 3 Stop flushing and cease using the toilet when you feel any backpressure or see any waste backing up into the toilet. 4. The vent is NOT an overflow. Only air should ever pass through it. Accidents do happen, though, and they can result in a clogged vent. Cease using the toilet immediately if you see waste coming out the vent and and get to a pumpout as soon as possible so that waste doesn't have time to dry and harden in the vent hose. Flush it out VERY thoroughly with clean water to remove any bits of waste in it. To prevent overflows out the vent, install a gauge.
And if the blockage is in the vent thru-hull, it won't cure problem anyway. Check the vent thru-hull. My guess is that you'll find a dirt dauber nest in it. Clean it out (whatever it is) and you should be able to pump out. Tank vents 101 (I GOTTA find time to upload this to the HM forum library!): A tank cannot be emptied under vacuum. Unless air can be pulled in through the vent to replace the waste (or anything else in ANY container) being pulled out, a vacuum is created in which nothing more can be removed--but in which the suction CAN crack the tank. A blocked vent also prevents the air displaced by incoming contents from escaping, which results in a pressurized tank. This can have disastrous consequences--anything from blown out fittings to a cracked tank to a sewage geyser when the pumpout fitting cap is removed to a backup in the toilet. Follow these "rules" to prevent the above problems: 1. check your vent through-hull regularly...blast it out with a hose every time you wash the boat; 2. Never turn pumpout operation over to a dockhand and walk away. Stay there and watch to make certain that the tank is being completely pumped out. Terminate pumpout/dumping at sea immediately if waste stops flowing before the tank is empty. Do not try to pump out or dump the tank again until the vent has been cleared. 3 Stop flushing and cease using the toilet when you feel any backpressure or see any waste backing up into the toilet. 4. The vent is NOT an overflow. Only air should ever pass through it. Accidents do happen, though, and they can result in a clogged vent. Cease using the toilet immediately if you see waste coming out the vent and and get to a pumpout as soon as possible so that waste doesn't have time to dry and harden in the vent hose. Flush it out VERY thoroughly with clean water to remove any bits of waste in it. To prevent overflows out the vent, install a gauge.
A little wee wee is not going to hurt!
Don: A little wee wee is not going to hurt anything. There is more discharge comming from the communities along the bay that all of the sailor could discharge in an entire year. But seriously, just see if the pump is pumping overboard with the valve in it present position. If it works, then switch it to the alternate position and try the deck pump out again.
Don: A little wee wee is not going to hurt anything. There is more discharge comming from the communities along the bay that all of the sailor could discharge in an entire year. But seriously, just see if the pump is pumping overboard with the valve in it present position. If it works, then switch it to the alternate position and try the deck pump out again.
P
Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
But it can cost you BIG buck$$
Sidestepping any environmental arguments, enforcement on the Chesapeake Bay--at least in Maryland--is quite diligent. Not worth the risk. However, I'm 99.999% certain that it's a moot point. From the description of his symptoms, he has a blocked tank vent.
Sidestepping any environmental arguments, enforcement on the Chesapeake Bay--at least in Maryland--is quite diligent. Not worth the risk. However, I'm 99.999% certain that it's a moot point. From the description of his symptoms, he has a blocked tank vent.
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David
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Don
Steve, politically I'm with you
Being from NC, where several cities have now admitted to dumping huge amounts of waste directly into the rivers, I don't see that we boaters are going to wreck the environment. And, it's apparent that there are many violators on the Ches Bay, but I have tried to follow the rules. I will admit that it's embarrassing when guests ask, "what's that (brown) slick" when we're out on the bay and I have to sidestep the issue. Then I'm glad that I follow the rules. It's all a part of our country's fascination with zero tolerance, etc. BTW, to rant on a related point. When I was trying to do this pumpout last Sunday, I was also refueling. I was at a dock that last year reported a fellow sailor for a spill while refueling. I read the case and it was ridiculous. They guy basically overfilled his tank and a few drops (seriously, the facts say "drops") came out of the vent. He refused to self-report and the marina reported him - a zero tolerance policy of sorts. Result was a fine against the boat owner, and it was increased when he tried to challenge it. The story had coverage around here, and I think also here at HOW. When I arrived at the fuel dock on Sunday, there was already a huge sheen on the water from fuel. I was so nervous that they were going to blame it on me. When the pumpout didn't work, I just got outta there. Now, off to tackle the vent/waste lines tonight. Wish me luck.
Being from NC, where several cities have now admitted to dumping huge amounts of waste directly into the rivers, I don't see that we boaters are going to wreck the environment. And, it's apparent that there are many violators on the Ches Bay, but I have tried to follow the rules. I will admit that it's embarrassing when guests ask, "what's that (brown) slick" when we're out on the bay and I have to sidestep the issue. Then I'm glad that I follow the rules. It's all a part of our country's fascination with zero tolerance, etc. BTW, to rant on a related point. When I was trying to do this pumpout last Sunday, I was also refueling. I was at a dock that last year reported a fellow sailor for a spill while refueling. I read the case and it was ridiculous. They guy basically overfilled his tank and a few drops (seriously, the facts say "drops") came out of the vent. He refused to self-report and the marina reported him - a zero tolerance policy of sorts. Result was a fine against the boat owner, and it was increased when he tried to challenge it. The story had coverage around here, and I think also here at HOW. When I arrived at the fuel dock on Sunday, there was already a huge sheen on the water from fuel. I was so nervous that they were going to blame it on me. When the pumpout didn't work, I just got outta there. Now, off to tackle the vent/waste lines tonight. Wish me luck.
R
Ron
This is how stupid.....
Along the same lines of our government being nuts! I was hauling a generator from TX to PA a few years ago and couldn't go thru any tunnels because the fuel tank on the generator said,"Flammable." It had...diesel in it.. The fact that I had 300 gals of diesel in MY truck tanks was not important. The residue in the generator tank was the issue. So as for pump out etc. a little common sense goes a long way... It just doesn't go to Washington! Ron/KA5HZV
Along the same lines of our government being nuts! I was hauling a generator from TX to PA a few years ago and couldn't go thru any tunnels because the fuel tank on the generator said,"Flammable." It had...diesel in it.. The fact that I had 300 gals of diesel in MY truck tanks was not important. The residue in the generator tank was the issue. So as for pump out etc. a little common sense goes a long way... It just doesn't go to Washington! Ron/KA5HZV
I was not advocating pumping the tank out.
Don: I really was not advocating pumping your entire tank overboard anyway. Just enough to see if it was going to work or NOT! Boaters have been used as scape goats in this pollution issue. We do not pump overboard either. We have a pumpout facility in our harbor and have to pass by it on the in/out of the harbor so it is not an issue with us. What really gets me is the city of Sacramento pump raw sewage into the Sacramento River on many days each year because their street drains and the sewage system goes through the same plants. If they did not discharge into the river, the entire thing would overflow. If every boat in our water system pumped overboard for a year we could not equal the amount of sewage that they dump in a single day. This happens all over the USA. Then you start looking at the stream run off where animal waste flows into the creeks, streams and rivers. I guess in defense of the pollution laws, if we all were so inconsiderate our waters would be polluted like they were back in the 40's, 50's and 60's. No one needs things like Love Canal in Western NY and other environmental disasters that we probably do not even know about. Good luck on the tank issue, be sure to let us know what the final outcome is.
Don: I really was not advocating pumping your entire tank overboard anyway. Just enough to see if it was going to work or NOT! Boaters have been used as scape goats in this pollution issue. We do not pump overboard either. We have a pumpout facility in our harbor and have to pass by it on the in/out of the harbor so it is not an issue with us. What really gets me is the city of Sacramento pump raw sewage into the Sacramento River on many days each year because their street drains and the sewage system goes through the same plants. If they did not discharge into the river, the entire thing would overflow. If every boat in our water system pumped overboard for a year we could not equal the amount of sewage that they dump in a single day. This happens all over the USA. Then you start looking at the stream run off where animal waste flows into the creeks, streams and rivers. I guess in defense of the pollution laws, if we all were so inconsiderate our waters would be polluted like they were back in the 40's, 50's and 60's. No one needs things like Love Canal in Western NY and other environmental disasters that we probably do not even know about. Good luck on the tank issue, be sure to let us know what the final outcome is.
T
Terry Cox
CLOGGED VENT LINE
Peggy has the right idea. In an earlier article I explained the way I unclogged my vent line, because my tank did the same thing. I disconnected the vent line from the holding tank, connected a city water hose to it using standard hose fittings. Even with the sixty pounds of pressure, it would not break the plug. So, I took a small screw driver, and while hanging over the toe rail, I stuck it into the vent scupper and gently scraped the inside until I first got a hiss, then a whoosh of water. That cleared the vent line, and everything has worked fine since. Terry
Peggy has the right idea. In an earlier article I explained the way I unclogged my vent line, because my tank did the same thing. I disconnected the vent line from the holding tank, connected a city water hose to it using standard hose fittings. Even with the sixty pounds of pressure, it would not break the plug. So, I took a small screw driver, and while hanging over the toe rail, I stuck it into the vent scupper and gently scraped the inside until I first got a hiss, then a whoosh of water. That cleared the vent line, and everything has worked fine since. Terry
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