Pump or blockage

[RiBurton]

I have a Jabsco pump with the twist and lock feature. It started becoming very hard to pump out and eventually stopped pumping dry all together. It will pump water in. I don't think I have a blockage but am not sure. I've had a blockage before and it was similar. I switched from holding to overboard and vice versa and it will not pump dry in either direction. When I unlock the pump handle I get leakage out of the top of the pump. I think it is the pump but not sure. Any thoughts?

 

[Rick D]

Last time that happened to me, I found major calcium build up past the joker valve in the elbow. Never had that happen before. Regardless, that was it. New elbow, joker valve, lube the pump and all was fine. On the other hand, if it isn't that, it could be the wet / dry valve in the pump. If it is, I'd suggest a new pump in lew of a rebuild based on my failure experience of the pump housing studs in many a rebuild. Or, just get a PH ll replacement which is what Peggy would tell you. Good luck.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Double checking your symptoms...

Do you have the same back pressure in the wet mode when pumping overboard that you have when pumping to the tank? Or does it pump overboard ok in the wet mode, but back pressures only when you go to the tank and doesn't move anything anywhere in the dry mode?

Do three things: replace the joker valve--which should be done EVERY YEAR as preventive maintenance, no matter what the make/model of the manual toilet. Lube the pump. Put a tablespoon of anything oily into it this time. And check your tank vent for a blockage...start at the vent thru-hull, clean it out...then remove the vent line from the tank and clean out that end of the hose and the tank fitting.

If that doesn't fix it, this will: sbo.com PHII PHC LBA

Speaking of which...Rick...(ahem)??? :dance:

 

[Rick D]

Re: Double checking your symptoms...

I know, Peggie, I know... it isn't a year yet. I will replace them. I said i would at $1K and I'm past, so, really I will...

Besides, I'm such a good example of why people should follow your guidance...

 

[RiBurton]

Do you have the same back pressure in the wet mode when pumping overboard that you have when pumping to the tank? Or does it pump overboard ok in the wet mode, but back pressures only when you go to the tank and doesn't move anything anywhere in the dry mode? ]

It does not seem to be pumping in either mode. It does pump water in in the wet mode but nothing goes out, either overboard or to the tank. I will disassemble the pump tomorrow. I know the PHC LBA is the best solution but I am pinching pennies these days and $75 for replacement Jabsco pump versus $220 for the PHC is kind of significant.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Why are you gonna disassemble the pump???

That wasn't one of the three things on my list, nor is it what Rick recommended. It's sounding more and more like sea water mineral buildup in the joker valve and/or the head discharge hose. Taking the pump apart won't fix that...neither will a new toilet.

 

[RiBurton]

I took the pump off and found that there was significant mineral buildup inside and around the bend and on the plunger. Is the Joker valve the flapper or the rubber one way valve that fits into the fitting that goes to the hose out? That one way valve was pulled inside out. I cleaned everything and put it back together thinking I had solved the problem. No luck it still does not pump out. I suppose I will have to see it there is a blockage somewhere. I would think it would be growth on the overboard discharge but I can't pump into the tank either. I suppose the next thing to check is the loop. If the vent is clogged would that cause it? I know you mentioned that before.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Joker valve is not the flapper valve, it's the joker valve

See the drawing and parts list in the manual for your toilet here:
Jabsco manual toilet instructions Cleaning it isn't enough....it has to be replaced.

A blocked TANK vent could definitely be the problem. I gave you instructions for clearing it in my previous reply. Do that before you do ANYthing else.

 

[RiBurton]

OK, I cleaned the vent. I took off the vent hose and inspected it and took off what looks like a vent valve on top of the loop. This valve does not seem to let any air through it if I blow threw it so it must be faulty also. I cleaned the hole going into the loop and tried pumping without this valve on it. Water spurts through the vent hole now but does not seem to be evacuating through the hose from the loop. That tells me the pump is working. What does this valve do? Does it limit the air going through it? It would seem that liquid would try to escape out of the vent also before it goes through the loop if there is no pressure there. There must be some type of blockage. Maybe in the Y Valve. because like I said it does not pump overboard or into the tank.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I took off the vent hose and inspected it and took off what looks like a vent valve on top of the loop. This valve does not seem to let any air through it if I blow threw it so it must be faulty also.

It's not supposed to work that way. The air valve in a vented loop is only supposed allow air INTO a line to break a siphon...it's not supposed to allow anything out. The air is PULLED in by starting a siphon...you shouldn't be able to blow through it. And there should not be a hose on it either. Remove it and also clean the air valve.

And now will you please clean out your HOLDING TANK VENT??? I'm 90% certain that's at least one of the major sources of your problem, but you seem determined to do everything BUT clean it out. If you don't, I'm giving up on you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I know, Peggie, I know... it isn't a year yet. I will replace them. I said i would at $1K and I'm past, so, really I will...

Besides, I'm such a good example of why people should follow your guidance...

Hey, Rick, don't feel so bad. I finally got one but it's still sitting in my garage! I'm just waiting for Peggie to call me again and tell me to bloody well install the darn thing!!!!

 

[Rick D]

I know, Stu. And, I keep looking at the puddle of trans fluid under my old Jag I just recommissioned for the summer too... There is no end to maintaining our toys (nor my wife for that matter...)

 

[RiBurton]

I have cleaned the holding tank vent and even disconnected it from the tank. I just don't see how that could be the problem if it does not pump out overboard either. If I was only pumping into the tank yes but it does not pump either way. Sorry if I seem dumb on this issue. That's why I was seeking advice.

 

[Rick D]

Well, it seems to me your next step is to disconnect the discharge line at the Y-Valve as you were thinking. See what happens then. A reversed joker valve is symptomatic of a blockage. I have found a blockage often happens right at the through hull. However, I would take it one (hose section) at a time. Best of luck! You'll get it eventually, don't get discouraged. We've all been there.

 

[Head Master18695]

Remove the discharge hose from the back end of the toilet. Replace it with a short length of 1 1/2" sanitation hose, leading to a bucket. Pump the head. If it flushes OK to the bucket, the problem is somewhere in the hoses after the head. If it doesn't flush OK into the bucket, the problem is in the head itself.

My suspicion is that you have either a mineral buildup inside the hoses, that is restricting the flow through the hose, or a clog somewhere farther down the line.

 

[DancingDays]

I've had a similar issue on a Jabsco twist lock. I'm not sure it's the same problem, but I'm pretty sure it was not blockage or pressure in the holding tank. What would happen was, it would pump just fine on wet (both in and out.) But when I switch to dry, I get back pressure and an, ahem, farting noise for a pump or two, then it starts working normally. Or if it doesn't, I hold the switch down on "dry", and then it works fine. It's almost like the wet/dry switch is backing to an in-between position when pumping.

This is combined with slow seepage back from the discharge line.

I replaced the joker valve last spring, and it did not help. A rebuild kit _did_ help. But it's starting to come back after 6 months.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Sounds like another wet/dry cam failure

It's a very common problem in Jabsco manual toilets made in the last 10 years. Due to either a design or tooling defect, the cam hangs, creating exactly the symptoms you describe. Jiggling the wet/dry lever may or may not free it each time it happens, but the only real cure is a new wet/dry cam assembly...Call jabsco customer service.

 

[thinwater]

It can also be misassymbled and give similar symptoms.

It's a very common problem in Jabsco manual toilets made in the last 10 years. Due to either a design or tooling defect, the cam hangs, creating exactly the symptoms you describe. Jiggling the wet/dry lever may or may not free it each time it happens, but the only real cure is a new wet/dry cam assembly...Call jabsco customer service.

I went through that when I got my boat. A close look at the instructions showed that one part on the top switching mechanism had been reversed. Worth a quick double check.

 

[DancingDays]

Peggie: Thanks, that's got to be it. I will call them.

Thinwater: Which instructions did you see this in? I've got the installation instructions somewhere--but does that cover internal assemblies of things like the wet/dry switch?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Instructions include exploded drawing of pump

Orientation of pump components are shown. Not that they're necessarily very easy to figure out. Parts list--also in the instructions--helps to identify what's what and where it goes.