I'm interested in a 79 Hunter 33. Have not yet got to the stage of hiring a surveyor but have a couple of concerns before reaching that point. 1/ Around the entire inboard edge of the toe rail on the deck is a one half inch strip of some gray sealing gunk - no signs of leaking inside on a cursory inspection. Do we have a potential problem here with an expensive fix? 2/ The original engine 2GM Yanmar - raw sea water cooled (that's my concern) - appears to have been well looked after by current owner of four years - prior to that who knows. In a worst case scenario what are approx. costs for a fresh water cooled replacement?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
K
Ken Palmer
No problems
Three years ago I purchased a 1981 H33. She has been a good boat, and I made the correct decision in buying her. 1. It sounds as if the previous owner has added the calking at the toe-rail. I have had no problems with leaks from that area or any other. Can you question the previous owner? 2. You failed to mention where you are sailing, in fresh water or sea water? I sail Lake Ontario, and my Yanmar is also raw water cooled. I have had no problem with the engine. Some day I may want to take Liberty out to see the statue named after her, and I have asked about conversion on HOW. I had a couple vague answers, but didn't hear from anybody that actually converted their cooling systems to a closed system. There are many H33 owners on this site, and a number of commentaries from owners. If you haven't done so yet, you might visit that location. Good luck with your decision Peter. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty Rochester, NY
Three years ago I purchased a 1981 H33. She has been a good boat, and I made the correct decision in buying her. 1. It sounds as if the previous owner has added the calking at the toe-rail. I have had no problems with leaks from that area or any other. Can you question the previous owner? 2. You failed to mention where you are sailing, in fresh water or sea water? I sail Lake Ontario, and my Yanmar is also raw water cooled. I have had no problem with the engine. Some day I may want to take Liberty out to see the statue named after her, and I have asked about conversion on HOW. I had a couple vague answers, but didn't hear from anybody that actually converted their cooling systems to a closed system. There are many H33 owners on this site, and a number of commentaries from owners. If you haven't done so yet, you might visit that location. Good luck with your decision Peter. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty Rochester, NY
E
Ernie Tetrault
trim the gunk
I just purchased a 1979 H33 last season. Like your boat, I had a bead of caulking around the inside edge of the toerail. I just took a razor knife and trimmed the gunk back to the edge of the rail. I haven't had any leaks. If your survey goes well I think you too will fall in love with the boat. As for the engine, I'm faced with the same dilemna. Let me know what you find out. Ernie J Tetrault "Abyss"
I just purchased a 1979 H33 last season. Like your boat, I had a bead of caulking around the inside edge of the toerail. I just took a razor knife and trimmed the gunk back to the edge of the rail. I haven't had any leaks. If your survey goes well I think you too will fall in love with the boat. As for the engine, I'm faced with the same dilemna. Let me know what you find out. Ernie J Tetrault "Abyss"
S
Stephen Ostrander
closed system
The Yanmar 2GM actually is a closed system. The engine is cooled by anti-freeze/coolant. The raw water is only used to cool the exhaust gas. There is no way that I know of to convert the raw water system to closed. But why would you want to?
The Yanmar 2GM actually is a closed system. The engine is cooled by anti-freeze/coolant. The raw water is only used to cool the exhaust gas. There is no way that I know of to convert the raw water system to closed. But why would you want to?
Oh Steve!
I think what Peter is refering to is the OLDER Yanmars were not the "f" models (indicating fresh water cooled). They did not have the heat exchanger. These engines were raw water cooled. I also think that these engines can be retro'd for a fresh water system.
I think what Peter is refering to is the OLDER Yanmars were not the "f" models (indicating fresh water cooled). They did not have the heat exchanger. These engines were raw water cooled. I also think that these engines can be retro'd for a fresh water system.
E
Ed Schenck
To Close or not....
I am very curious about the previous post that states the 2GM has a closed cooling system. If this is true then the heat exchanger arrangement should be obvious. I have a 2QM20 where the manual shows an open cooling system. But the boat has a heat exchanger and an externally mounted waterpump for the sea water to it. The heat exchanger has a radiator cap for checking the level and putting water and anti-freeze into the closed loop. This all appears to be an add-on but I don't know. It works well but looks unprofessional. It would be easy to install if one could find the pump and a place to mount it. Mine is belt driven below the alternator. Ed (eschenck@ezo.net)
I am very curious about the previous post that states the 2GM has a closed cooling system. If this is true then the heat exchanger arrangement should be obvious. I have a 2QM20 where the manual shows an open cooling system. But the boat has a heat exchanger and an externally mounted waterpump for the sea water to it. The heat exchanger has a radiator cap for checking the level and putting water and anti-freeze into the closed loop. This all appears to be an add-on but I don't know. It works well but looks unprofessional. It would be easy to install if one could find the pump and a place to mount it. Mine is belt driven below the alternator. Ed (eschenck@ezo.net)
J
Jim Logan
Raw Water Cooling
Since you have a 79 H33, if the engine hasn't been replaced along the way, I'll bet if you look at the engine dataplate, you will find the engine is a 2QM15 - not a 2gm. This makes some difference as regard to operating rpm and peak hp. MOst of the parts are the same as for the gm series, but they are not identical engines - so if you go ordering parts to convert to closed water cooling, be sure you know what engine you have. I have a 80 h33 with the orginal engine, run in brackish water for the last 20 years, still works well - no overheating, just regular maintenance. jim logan s/v reality,
Since you have a 79 H33, if the engine hasn't been replaced along the way, I'll bet if you look at the engine dataplate, you will find the engine is a 2QM15 - not a 2gm. This makes some difference as regard to operating rpm and peak hp. MOst of the parts are the same as for the gm series, but they are not identical engines - so if you go ordering parts to convert to closed water cooling, be sure you know what engine you have. I have a 80 h33 with the orginal engine, run in brackish water for the last 20 years, still works well - no overheating, just regular maintenance. jim logan s/v reality,
D
Don Connolly
To ansewer your question
Peter: I am the very pleased owner of a 1992 h33. They are damn good tough little crusers. MerEllis started life in Florida and has been back and forth to the bahamas many times. Three years ago I sailed her up the gulf stream to the Chesapeak where we now sail. The engine is a 2GM and is raw water cooled, have the zincs checked out as routine maintenance. Only leaks I have had were around the portlights. I pulled all of them rebedded, checked for any dry rot reinstalled and havent had a leak since. Also found where in the past the chain plates had leaked previous owner fixed that.
Peter: I am the very pleased owner of a 1992 h33. They are damn good tough little crusers. MerEllis started life in Florida and has been back and forth to the bahamas many times. Three years ago I sailed her up the gulf stream to the Chesapeak where we now sail. The engine is a 2GM and is raw water cooled, have the zincs checked out as routine maintenance. Only leaks I have had were around the portlights. I pulled all of them rebedded, checked for any dry rot reinstalled and havent had a leak since. Also found where in the past the chain plates had leaked previous owner fixed that.
S
Stephen Ostrander
cooling
In Peter's original post he mentioned a 2GM Yanmar so I assumed it was the 2GM20. I'm not familiar with 2QM's, I've had 2GM20F's in my last 2 boats. The "F" stands for freshwater, but the water only cools the exhaust, the engine is cooled by the coolant in the closed system. Both of my engines had heat exchangers. It is an excellent, dependable engine, but most people claim that they vibrate too much. I say its a sailboat, not a motorboat, and I try to avoid running the engine anyway.
In Peter's original post he mentioned a 2GM Yanmar so I assumed it was the 2GM20. I'm not familiar with 2QM's, I've had 2GM20F's in my last 2 boats. The "F" stands for freshwater, but the water only cools the exhaust, the engine is cooled by the coolant in the closed system. Both of my engines had heat exchangers. It is an excellent, dependable engine, but most people claim that they vibrate too much. I say its a sailboat, not a motorboat, and I try to avoid running the engine anyway.
D
Don Connolly
K
Ken Palmer
Confused
It's hell getting old! I am confused. Raw water, fresh water, open system, closed system.... What does it all mean? Here is what I think these terms mean, please correct me if I'm wrong: Raw water cooled: Sea water is pumped directly through the engine and exhaust system. There is no seperate system containing anit-freeze. (No "f" tacked on to the engine model number.) Fresh Water cooled: Sea water is pumped through a heat exchanger and the exhaust system. The engine is actually cooled by antifreeze circulating and cooled at the heat exchanger. ("f" tacked on to the engine model number.) Open: Same as raw water cooled. Closed: Same as Fresh water cooled. I cannot figure out why fresh water cooled is called "fresh water". Sailing here on Lake Ontario, all water pumped through the engine from the lake is "fresh water". Just an observation. Oh well.... life goes on and the brain cells keep dying. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
It's hell getting old! I am confused. Raw water, fresh water, open system, closed system.... What does it all mean? Here is what I think these terms mean, please correct me if I'm wrong: Raw water cooled: Sea water is pumped directly through the engine and exhaust system. There is no seperate system containing anit-freeze. (No "f" tacked on to the engine model number.) Fresh Water cooled: Sea water is pumped through a heat exchanger and the exhaust system. The engine is actually cooled by antifreeze circulating and cooled at the heat exchanger. ("f" tacked on to the engine model number.) Open: Same as raw water cooled. Closed: Same as Fresh water cooled. I cannot figure out why fresh water cooled is called "fresh water". Sailing here on Lake Ontario, all water pumped through the engine from the lake is "fresh water". Just an observation. Oh well.... life goes on and the brain cells keep dying. Ken Palmer, S/V Liberty
E
Ed Schenck
Ken, great summary!
Ken, you stole that opening line from my father. Now at 58 I use it all the time. But you still managed to get it exactly right.
Ken, you stole that opening line from my father. Now at 58 I use it all the time. But you still managed to get it exactly right.
Ken, yes you are getting old but.
Ken: Great summary. What these guys are worried about is the sail water flowing through the engine. We are also in fresh water (most of the time). I think that the salt builds up in the water jackets and causes restricted flows after time. Sooooo, when you have a "f" (fresh water cooling) system the only salt water is in the heat exchanger and the exhaust. Getting old is hell, but it beats the alternative!
Ken: Great summary. What these guys are worried about is the sail water flowing through the engine. We are also in fresh water (most of the time). I think that the salt builds up in the water jackets and causes restricted flows after time. Sooooo, when you have a "f" (fresh water cooling) system the only salt water is in the heat exchanger and the exhaust. Getting old is hell, but it beats the alternative!
T
Thomas FitzGibbon
Salt Water Cooled
I've owned my '79 H33 for 2 years now and have kept it in salt water as did the previous owner. As far as I can tell, this boat has been in salt water since it was launched. Neither my surveyor nor my mechanic have noticed any problems with salt build up or unusual corrosion (at least not that they have brought to my attention!). My cooling system and engine seem to work just fine. I wouldn't pass it up just because it has been cooled with salt water. Mack Boring in Union, NJ, however, can give you a quote on a new engine if you are that concerned. They're not cheap, but they have a very good reputation. Tom FitzGibbon S/V Plan B
I've owned my '79 H33 for 2 years now and have kept it in salt water as did the previous owner. As far as I can tell, this boat has been in salt water since it was launched. Neither my surveyor nor my mechanic have noticed any problems with salt build up or unusual corrosion (at least not that they have brought to my attention!). My cooling system and engine seem to work just fine. I wouldn't pass it up just because it has been cooled with salt water. Mack Boring in Union, NJ, however, can give you a quote on a new engine if you are that concerned. They're not cheap, but they have a very good reputation. Tom FitzGibbon S/V Plan B
S
Sam Lust
More saltwater in the wound
According to Larry Berlin of Mack Boring's Engine City Technical Institute, the Yanmars are designed from the ground up to run for a lifetime on salt (raw) water. I assume that means a certain amount of nickel or some such alloy in the cast iron of the block, head and exhaust manifold. I have not met anyone who knows more about Yanmars than Larry. He developed the curricula and taught the original owner courses at Mack Boring as well as cunsulting on the new Seloc Shop manual for the Yanmars. According to Larry the only reason you'd realy need fresh water cooling is for its increased capability to heat water in your water heater. I took a good look inside while changing the thermostat on my 16 year old 2GM raw water last winter and saw no evidence of corrosion. The back section of the factory shop manual shows the fresh water add-on kit and installation. Call Mack boring to find out if the kit is still available.
According to Larry Berlin of Mack Boring's Engine City Technical Institute, the Yanmars are designed from the ground up to run for a lifetime on salt (raw) water. I assume that means a certain amount of nickel or some such alloy in the cast iron of the block, head and exhaust manifold. I have not met anyone who knows more about Yanmars than Larry. He developed the curricula and taught the original owner courses at Mack Boring as well as cunsulting on the new Seloc Shop manual for the Yanmars. According to Larry the only reason you'd realy need fresh water cooling is for its increased capability to heat water in your water heater. I took a good look inside while changing the thermostat on my 16 year old 2GM raw water last winter and saw no evidence of corrosion. The back section of the factory shop manual shows the fresh water add-on kit and installation. Call Mack boring to find out if the kit is still available.
J
Jim Logan
More info on 2qm15
Since most people seem to think they have a 2gm in their H33's I thought I would post a little information about the 2QM15 that is in at least some of the 79-83 H33's. It has 14 HP continuous, @ 3000 rpm. Note that this is different from the rated HP of the 2GM (16) at 3400 rpm. My point is that if you turn your 2QM15 up to 3400 rpm and leave it there for a while, you may not like the results! My 2QM15 will turn up to 3300 rpm (different prop from stock), but I surely would not run it there for any length of time. The data plate for a 2QM is on the side of the engine that is toward the head, that is, the right side of the boat - it is below the exhaust manifold, behind the water pump - I do not know if there is a true difference between the 2Qm and the 2GM, but they do have different specifications with regard to output - does anyone know the real story about these engines? THe one in my boat seems to work very well at about 2400 rpm, not much gained by going to 3000 rpm, the rated operating rpm. If the 2QM is like the other yanmars, you can probably pull 15-16hp for 1 hour at an elevated rpm, perhaps 3200 rpm (2gm 3400continuous, 3600, 1 hour rating). Anybody got any ideas about this subject?
Since most people seem to think they have a 2gm in their H33's I thought I would post a little information about the 2QM15 that is in at least some of the 79-83 H33's. It has 14 HP continuous, @ 3000 rpm. Note that this is different from the rated HP of the 2GM (16) at 3400 rpm. My point is that if you turn your 2QM15 up to 3400 rpm and leave it there for a while, you may not like the results! My 2QM15 will turn up to 3300 rpm (different prop from stock), but I surely would not run it there for any length of time. The data plate for a 2QM is on the side of the engine that is toward the head, that is, the right side of the boat - it is below the exhaust manifold, behind the water pump - I do not know if there is a true difference between the 2Qm and the 2GM, but they do have different specifications with regard to output - does anyone know the real story about these engines? THe one in my boat seems to work very well at about 2400 rpm, not much gained by going to 3000 rpm, the rated operating rpm. If the 2QM is like the other yanmars, you can probably pull 15-16hp for 1 hour at an elevated rpm, perhaps 3200 rpm (2gm 3400continuous, 3600, 1 hour rating). Anybody got any ideas about this subject?
P
Pete
salt water cooling
"raw water" is a very acceptable way of cooling you engine. the salt corrision you arem worried about is not that big a deal, replace the zinc at least once a year.outboard engine have been raw water/salt water cooled for years and years.if you want you could "T" in a fresh water flush system with dock water to rinse out you engine after using it also heplful for winterizing it.As far as replacing it or adding a fresh water cooling system I would wait until engine needs to be replaced/overhauled.Why spend all that money when it is not really needed.Lastly I would stop worring about it a enjoy the boat!
"raw water" is a very acceptable way of cooling you engine. the salt corrision you arem worried about is not that big a deal, replace the zinc at least once a year.outboard engine have been raw water/salt water cooled for years and years.if you want you could "T" in a fresh water flush system with dock water to rinse out you engine after using it also heplful for winterizing it.As far as replacing it or adding a fresh water cooling system I would wait until engine needs to be replaced/overhauled.Why spend all that money when it is not really needed.Lastly I would stop worring about it a enjoy the boat!
- Status
- Not open for further replies.