Propane installation

wxt8981 · Jan 20, 2007

I'd stay away from propane. Propane is heavier than air and
can end up in the bilge. I've been told "it's safe"... but
I've seen a boat blown to bits- they were using propane!
Wilhelm, V-257

txsailcouple · Jan 20, 2007

Designing a safe system to contain a propane supply is
critical. Start by mounting the tanks as far aft as
possible with an electrical switch for control. Most
new systems are mounted in a 'well' that is only
accessable from topside so the gas has no way to leak
into the interior of your boat. If this is not
practical then be sure to have a vent fan that would
ventilate the space whenever the switch is on.

Some sort of detector would also be a good idea in
case of a seal failure on the tanks themselves.

AND be careful, be safe and smooth sailing.
John & Carol
Southern Comfort Too

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stevebirch2002 · Jan 21, 2007

Afraid I agree, hate gas on my Vega so have changed to an Origo Cooker.
Best thing Ive ever done. Been quite a few yachts over teh last few
years that have blown up in the UK due to gas installations and
leaking.....

Cheers

Steve B

tom_rutter · Jan 21, 2007

I agree, I have the origo cooker too. I like that it is so simple -
maintenance is just wiping down with a cloth! You have a pot of fuel
and you open it up and put a match in. Everything is self contained.
Also, meths evaporates to be lighter than air, so escapes the boat.
Also you can put meths out with water, so a bucket is a good backup
fire extinguisher if you get a leak. The main problem with them is
the opposite, they're not as hot as gas or kerosene so boiling water
takes longer.

I didn't trust myself to install and maintain a butane installation
(it was broken and leaking when I got the boat). If money was no
object, I'd have a butane system professionally installed and tested
regularly (probably with boat heating too!). But then again, I'd
probably have bought an Oyster, or a Halberg Rassey and not a Vega.

If you're planning on doing some long cruises away from places you can
buy fuel, then it makes sense to have propane or butane, I suppose,
for the creature comfort and the cost. But otherwise, I prefer the
meths.

Tom

rchrdcoe · Jan 21, 2007

Alan-
I have had propane on two of my previous boats. Mount the bottles
outside on the pushput. You can have solenoid cut off in the cabin,
but manually shutting off at the tank is probably better. My
solenoyed would turn on unexpectedly in an electrical storm.
When finished using the stove, shut off the tank thereby using the
gas in the line.
Richard V1812

vegatern · Jan 21, 2007

I've got two aluminum tanks on the pushpit as described and
although propane is convienient it does make me somewhat
uncomfortable. My system is due for a refit but I haven't decided if
I will stay with gas or not. I installed a spark proof exhaust fan
from the bilge to one of the stern vents and run it before lighting.
The system should also have a bilge alarm for gas, and will get one if
I stay with it. I use the valve on the tank to turn off the gas as
suggested, turning off the stove after the flame dies. My system also
serves a Force 10 heater in the forepeak and there are valves below
decks to divert to either the heater or stove. This is a very
dangerous practice as each connection is a potential leak. Any valves
should be above deck and hoses need to be protected where they pass
through bulkheads. I would prefer to have a single fuel for both the
stove and heater and if I change fuels will go to diesel I think.
One disadvantage with the tanks on the pushpit is the amount of space
they take up, and the resistance they would present to a boarding sea,
possibly jeopardizing the stanchions. I had at one time considered a
vapor proof locker in the stern but there is not room for the locker
and it's required drain, since the drain disappears under water when
heeled.
Craig #1519 Tern

wxt8981 · Jan 21, 2007

Hi
I understand if you're in Europe, you can get natural gas
which is much safer being lighter than air. Though I stay
away from any gas.
Wilhelm, V-257

tom_rutter · Jan 21, 2007

Hi,

My vega has a gas locker in the lazerette locker. It drains into the
cockpit, and then (theoretically) out through the cockpit drains.
That might be an option if you're considering putting in a gas locker.
However, I don't know about the size of the US propane cylinders. I
know it's only just about big enough for two of the european butane
camping gaz style cylinders. It wouldn't go much taller as the bottom
of the gas locker is restricted to be at or above the level of the
cockpit floor.

Tom

cedricbaele · Jan 21, 2007

As far as propane being dangerous, it is but with some common sense you can have all the benefits of propane with very little safety hazard. We opted to go with propane before we moved onto our Vega. We are liveaboard and like to cook, so it seemed like propane was our only choice. Alcohol is also very pricey and sometimes hard to find in other places in the world.

Anyhow, what I did was to build a well just aft of the aft cockpit coaming. We have one 10lbs aluminum tank, and that lasts us many months (using a pressure cooker for many things really saves fuel). So this well was built with plywood, then glassed the inside with epoxy corners. I was able to slip this box (with no top) through the lazarette opening. The hardest part was to glass this box to the underside of the deck. The top was then closed by a square white hatch from Beckson I believe (it fit perfectly). Once this was done, the inside of the well was painted then the solenoid installed. It's also very important to vent it to the outside, so I ran a hose from the bottom of the well to a thru-hull with a flapper above the waterline. The propane hose was then run along the inside of the coaming then through the bulkhead and stove. We have a panel underneath the companionway to control the solenoid. This is definitely an installation that took a lot of time, but it is one
of the things I am most proud of on our Vega. It's nice to know that the gas cylinder is out of the way and well protected.
For all I posted a pic of the installation in the files section.

Fair winds to all,

Cedric and Melissa
V-2941
Charleston, SC

vegatern · Jan 21, 2007

Cedric,
Thanks for the picture. I will look into this again.
Craig

imbissfrank · Jan 23, 2007

28 bucks a gallon !!! Where did you see that? Was it "stove fuel"? Plain ole rubbing alcohol AKA Isopropyl or Isopropanol alcohol will work perfectly. It is sold in two different strengths 70% and 90+%. The lower grade gives off more soot. The "marine grade stove fuel" is essentially the same damned stuff. With a "marine" or "stove" title. I used it for years to preheat my kerosene stove, before switching to Propane. But I now have an Origo 3000 non-pressurized alcohol stove. And I use rubbing alcohol, no problem. max 4 bucks a gallon. You'll find it cheaper in Target, K-Mart, etc
Frank Gallardo Jr
sv Cin Cin V-2184

alan_critchlow alan.critchlow@... wrote:
Thanks for all the comments on propane installation. I will study all
the installatons suggested. In the Bahamas alcohol is 28 dollars
although shellac thinner in the same store is 14 dollars. It is the
same thing.

We will be meeting up with Whisper. They came across to the Bahamas
yesterday.

Alan & Felicity

pjacobs55 · Jan 23, 2007

My understanding is that stove alcohol is "denurtured" (water
removed) and that it has better heating properties than the regular
stuff. I find the alcohol stove quite slow, and the fumes are
unpleasant. I plan to upgrade to a propane system, both for cooking
and heating. There is lots of good advice available to install a
safe marine system. An example is

BoatUS Expert Advice

BoatUS Magazine, the largest boating magazine in the US, provides boating skills, DIY maintenance, safety and news from top experts.

www.boatus.com

Just my 2 cents worth

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

imbissfrank · Jan 23, 2007

Your right Peter, meths (stove fuel ) has had the water removed, whereas isopropyl can have anything from 10 to 30 percent water. However at 90%, there is only 10 percent water and I find it perfectly acceptable, considering the cost difference. Slow? "Time is relevant" A. Einstein when you are out cruising what are a couple of minutes. Having said that the smell is a put-off for a lot of people. Some even getting queasy from the smell. Trade offs, trade offs, trade offs. You makes your choices, and takes your chances
Frank Gallardo Jr

pjacobs55 prjacobs@... wrote:
My understanding is that stove alcohol is "denurtured" (water
removed) and that it has better heating properties than the regular
stuff. I find the alcohol stove quite slow, and the fumes are
unpleasant. I plan to upgrade to a propane system, both for cooking
and heating. There is lots of good advice available to install a
safe marine system. An example is

BoatUS Expert Advice

BoatUS Magazine, the largest boating magazine in the US, provides boating skills, DIY maintenance, safety and news from top experts.

www.boatus.com

Just my 2 cents worth

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

stevebirch2002 · Jan 23, 2007

Guite a few in the UK add 10% water to the meths. Wish we could get the
stuff you have as meths in teh UK is not cheap, I have to wait until I
travel to France to buy what they call Alcohool Brulee

Cheers Steve B

pelagicasd · Jan 24, 2007

Lyric had the old alcohol stove. I got rid of it after trying to fry
chicken, it came out sort of poached. Next system was a propane camp stove
with a hose from the 5 gallon tank in the cockpit through the companionway
to the stove. Didn't know I needed a regulator. I guess I was lucky I didn't
blow up the boat. It wasn't the ideal setup for cruising though. Judy
insistd on a more state of the art system before we went to Mexico. She had
a disel stove when she cruised to Tahiti and swore she would cruise with one
again. We installed a Force 10 2 burner with broiler. I wanted a 2 burner
with an oven but couldn't find anything that would fit in the available
space. I know that Plastimo makes one but couldn't find it in the states. We
liked the installation but to be truthful, hardly used the broiler except
for makinf toast. I built up the stove cutout with plywood panels to allow
the stove to gimbal. We decided on aluminum 6 lb tanks which allowed us to
use one for the stove and one for the barbacue. We also carried a spare. The
plan was 6 lb tanks would allow us to carry them easily when we had to get
them filled. One tank was fastened to each side of the pushpit and the spare
was strapped to the wind vane mount. I't didn't work out quite as well as we
hoped. After a bad propane explosion in Mazatlan awhile back the government
decreed that all the propane fiill areas would be well out of town. To far
to walk. Every marina had a service that would take your tanks to be filled
so getting propane wasn't difficult. The catch was it was a flat rate per
tank so somebody with a 20 gallon tank was paying 1/3 as much as we were for
18 gallons. We ran a hose from the tank to a vapor proof box I built under
the lazarette. The regulator in in that box. Another hose comes from that
that box and runs under the coaming to the stove. the whole thing is
controlled with a solonoid. there is a small whole drilled through the
bottom of the box to act as a vent for any leakage. A propane sniffer is
mounted in the bilge. We had two problems in 1 1/2 years of cruising. One
was the controller for the solonid quit and we had to remove it from the
system. At that point we had to open and close the tank manually. The other
problem was a couple of spot welds on the fron panel of the stove gave way
and we couldn't use the pushbotton ignitor for the stove. That one was
easily solved with my Makita drill and a couple of stainless steel pop
rivets. If doing it again I think I'd use a couple of 10 lb. steel tanks and
coat them with epoxy paint for corrosion resitance. They are a heck of a lot
cheaper than the aluminum tanks. I'd also consider using a camp stove again.
Walmart is carrying a stainless steel 2 burner now. Pop riveting a couple of
metal trainagles to the sides would allow it to gimbal. Pot holders would be
a bit more difficult but I'm sure something could be figured out. Good luck
to all with your installations, Walt S/V Lyric

PS Nissan makes a thermal pot that is great. Throw the rice in it and bring
it to a boil. Take it off the stove and put it in its insulated holder. Turn
the stove off. 25 minutes later its done. Works well for pasta, beans and
potatoes too. It works for anything that can be cookd by boiling. Much more
efficient than a pressure cooker as far as fuel use goes. Cook up a batch of
chili and rice and leave it in the container. Have a warm meal in the middle
of the night watch!

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