Primary Winch Upgrade

[SailingCal21]

Karma's primaries are the standard Barient 25s. I solo sail quite and have been looking to upgrade to self-tailing winches. I've acquired a pair of Lemar 40 STs. Upon comparison the Barient's drum size is visibly larger (11 1/2" vs 9 1/2"); however the Lewmar application chart indicates that the 40's are appropriate for 33-35 ft boat and sail area of 470 sq ft. Karma a 34 O'Day which sports a Genoa of 450 sq. ft. , kinda on the edge of the specs however I'm not an avid racer so I'm not too worried. Also, it turns out that they are Lewmar Wavegrip 40 (circa 1983-1991) so parts may be an issue, but I digress.

While the hole patterns are similar, the Barient's base is 6 1/2" with 3/8" machine screws and the Lewmar's base is 5 1/2" with 1/4, so naturally to cover the old holes I'm going to have to install a winch pad (WhiteCap 60468) which is 1 1/4" thick. Searching for 4" SS 316 machine screws was a challenge and I had to settle for 1/4 X 20 screws instead of a fine thread screw.

Realizing that the primaries can take a heavy load, I'm mildly concerned about the difference in the strength of the installation using smaller fasteners coupled with elevating them 1 1/4" higher than the Barients. The original backing was simply washers, which I'm beefing up.

 

[eherlihy]

In 2013, I removed (and re-sold!) the Barlow 25 ST winches that came with my O'day 35. They were not gripping the jib sheets well, the chrome was pitted, and spares unavailable.

I replaced them with a pair of Andersen 40 FST (Full Stainless Self Tailing winches). The Andersen winches have a smaller footprint than the Barlows. I drilled out the holes were the Barlows were mounted and filled the holes with epoxy. The deck where the winches is mounted is cored with plywood. I then drilled new holes to match the Andersen bolt pattern, widened each hole below the skin with a Dremel and a Dremel 115 bit, filled the holes with epoxy, and re-drilled and chamfered each of the new holes. I backed each bolt hole with a large stainless steel washer, and used butyl tape to bed the winch on the deck. I did not use a new winch pad, nor do I think one is necessary. Realize that it will change the angle of the sheet to the drum.

The new winches are a VAST improvement in terms of leverage and appearance from the old winches.

I would upload a picture of the old winches, but the pictures are too large for the server to process. Here is a picture of the new Andersen 40s

 

[Joe]

Check the gear ratios. You'll find that the larger drum barient/barlow standards will be something like 1:1 and 3:1, while the Lewmars will most likely be 2:1 and 4:1. On my old 2 speed barlows I often resorted to a 10" handle to give me more power with the big genoa and the halyards. The advantage was that they were much faster grinding and alot quicker releasing. I converted to Lewmars a few years back and found that I had much more power (translated to less effort) but they were so much slower... from loading up the drum and activating the self tailing mechanism to stripping in lots of slack... I'm glad I didn't remove the cam cleats on risers than made the old winches so efficient be cause when I'm single handing I can strip in the sheet by hand a snap it down in the cleat, just as I did before. The total plus side is once I get sorted out of the turn, I can sit down and do my micro trimming with the power and ease of the self tailer. There was so much more power that I went out and bought a new 8" winch handle with the lock release built in to it. Nice. The shorter winch handle and increased power makes halyard operation much easier under the new dodger that restricts any 360 grinding.

As far as the anchor system goes....If the Lewmars call for 1/4 bolts..... what can you do? There's six of them right? I honestly think you're fine... but if you're still uneasy, try contacting the Lewmar people for their comment. Good Luck.

 

[Ward H]

I replaced them with a pair of Andersen 40 FST (Full Stainless Self Tailing winches).

Very sweet winches. I installed Anderson FST winches on my O'day 25. Loved them.

 

[SailingCal21]

Thanks for the input, all. I feel better about my decisions and will consider mounting as a direct replacement without use of the winch pad. The Anderson winches are pretty sweet looking.

 

[SailingCal21]

Installed the 40STs this weekend, decided to go with the winch pad. They are a great improvement over the Barients. Both the self-tailing and power. I'm kinda partial to the heavy-ass Barient winch handle. I like the feel

Still kinda