Pre-purchase inspections

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Apr 23, 2013
13
Beneteau First 235 Mandeville, LA
I am new to the forum here and I have a question that I would like to pose to those more experienced than I with teh MacGregor boats.

I am looking to purchase a MacGregor 26 (either an M or an X) if the right boat at the right price comes up. I have been researching these boats online and have tried searching the posts here but really have not come up with too many items that are on a the short list of "things you must look at" on a pre-purchase inspection. More than likely a survey will be done before purchase but if there are a few problem areas or things to consider that may help me identify problem areas before that point I would love to get your constructive input? Thank you.

Eric
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
I would ask for a 'sea-trial' for any boat you buy. that allows you to see that the boat is complete, not missing any parts needed to use it, and also an insight to the owner and their use of the boat. you might offer a $100 deposit (non-refundable) towards the purchase price... if you don't buy, owner keeps your $ for the time and trouble. an engine compression test would be important (on the powersailor). do you know how to do that?
 
Apr 23, 2013
13
Beneteau First 235 Mandeville, LA
Compressions

I would ask for a 'sea-trial' for any boat you buy. that allows you to see that the boat is complete, not missing any parts needed to use it, and also an insight to the owner and their use of the boat. you might offer a $100 deposit (non-refundable) towards the purchase price... if you don't buy, owner keeps your $ for the time and trouble. an engine compression test would be important (on the powersailor). do you know how to do that?
Sea trial is a must, and had already thought about the deposit, but it does help to know that may be an acceptable approach. I do not know how to check compressions on an outboard. I can do it on airplane engines and have the tools to do it on mine, so I can probably do it, but I have never done it before. Thanks.

Eric
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
basic compression test for OB (this is for 2 strokes, but should work (?)) engine cold, engine throttle full open, all plugs removed, compression gauge screwed in. turn over motor. (careful, of the plug wires). get the number. do it again. move to next cyl. repeat... the numbers should be within 10% of the rest. older engines naturally loose compression. -not a huge big deal.. but recognize there is some loss of power on older motors. -you can check mfg website for factory compression#. what you don't want to see is 20% or more low on one cyl. also check the plugs for lots of carbon. -unburnt fuel/oil... if the engine is hot, all above still applies, but all the numbers will be a bit higher. *I don't like the press and hold compression testers. use the screwed in type. ------ in general, the over all condition is the key. if it looks beat up, it probably is. also in general, better to buy a good condition boat, than a beat up one, and pour money into it fixing it...
 
Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
For the outboard, I will suggest an additional test that may save you a lot of money (I learned the hard way).

There is a common perception that outboard motors last "forever" and require no special winterization. Lots of stories about motors just "stashed in a shed" over winter and lasting for decades.

Truth is that improper winterization in a cold and/or damp environment can cause rust to form on the cylinder walls. When the motor is used, the cylinder walls score. Also, bearings can rust and fail.

I learned this the hard way when my "new to me" outboard started "clanking" (con rod bearings) and also losing compression (scored cylinder walls).

What to do - have a mechanic evaluate the motor. Among other things (like a compression test) he will use a bore scope to look into the cylinders.

Could save you from a nasty surprise...

Chris
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I just got my boat off Craigs List. Just saw a bunch of digital photos. I did ask for specific photos of specific areas. I still think I got a good deal. BUT I can fix things myself and am not intimidated by any boat repair. The boat was and still is Full of surprises! Kind of like a Cracker Jack box.
I have had such a good time with my first boat bought unseen that I dragged another 26D home 2 weekends ago! It was neglected for 8 years and I know it needs "a bit" of work to bring back to it's former glory. (all lines, sails, fiberglass repairs (holes and cracks))
Motors are a pain in the..... Yes a good mechanic should look it over like Chris mentioned. Also plan on replacing the water pump and lower end oil and spark plugs. Those are just consumables in my opinion.
Good luck with your purchase.
 
Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
Finding41 - are you planning to restore that second M26? You mentioned it needing sails - I'm replacing our main this year but the old one is still serviceable. Also have a regular jib (with luff tape for furler). Hoping to trade for a spinnaker.

Chris
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
Hi Chris. I am restoring the 26D! Its in OK shape. (I will start a thread about all the surprises. Note: blisters inside the cabin! At least it didn't have a TV built in and knotty pine trimmings!) It has a couple holes... I'm hoping they are the only ones. Nothing too diffacult.
I did find sails in good shape on Kijiji for $150. Genoa for furler and main with slugs. They even say 26M.
I just happen to have a couple symmetrical spinnakers. There off a HR 25. and are about 2.5' taller and 2' wider than what came with the S or D. (I think faster.)
Here are a couple pictures.
Check your PM inbox. Email me back and I can send detailed pictures of them if you are interested in trading. I could use a regular jib with luff tape on this new boat. The one I got from Kijiji is a 150.
 

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May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
I believe/feel, that the same standards should apply to the inspection of a boat engine as it would to the inspection of an airplane engine or a Ferrari engine.

IMHO all engines, regardless of a 9 HP Johnson, or a Ferrari F355, should post compression numbers within a minimum of 10% of specified compression given by the manufacturer. If they say it should be 150 psi, the lowest reading on any one cylinder should 135 or higher, and all cylinders should be within 10% from lowest to highest. However, in the example above, 135 would indicate, to me, a dying cylinder. That is NOT an engine in its prime or in top condition, its actually a core engine in all honesty. Most reputable salvage yards wouldn't even sell an engine for more than core value with a cylinder showing that much loss.

If I am doing a compression test on a prospective boat engine (or any engine), any numbers that less than 8% below spec, I would like to see a leakdown test performed at the sellers expense. Its his boat, hes the one who listed it, if the engine cant make book compression it has a potential engine problem which should be investigated. Buying that boat without further diagnosis, based on the attitude or perception that it seems to run okay, or all the cylinders are within 10% regardless how low they average, is folly. IMO the boat has to take a hit in value due to a questionable engine. The seller then has the choice, pay for a leakdown to find the cause, and offer to fix it, or, knock off the value of a replacement engine.

Having said all this, it should be stated that several things can occur to cause an engine to post poor compression numbers, making an otherwise strong engine appear to be worn out. All the spark plugs must be removed so the engine can spin as fast as possible. The throttle/carburetor, has to be blocked fully open so the engine gets all the air it needs. The engine should be hot, or well warmed, so the rings are functioning as well as possible, and the starting system and battery has got to be at 100%. Any one of those factors will reduce maximum compression readings. One other factor would be high altitude, but most people at those altitudes should be aware and be able to do the proper calculations to correct for it. Its really not much of a factor below 3000 feet.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
For the outboard, I will suggest an additional test that may save you a lot of money (I learned the hard way).

Truth is that improper winterization in a cold and/or damp environment can cause rust to form on the cylinder walls. When the motor is used, the cylinder walls score. Also, bearings can rust and fail.

I learned this the hard way when my "new to me" outboard started "clanking" (con rod bearings) and also losing compression (scored cylinder walls).

What to do - have a mechanic evaluate the motor. Among other things (like a compression test) he will use a bore scope to look into the cylinders.

Could save you from a nasty surprise...

Chris
That is always a good idea on an engine that sat a long time. Sadly, most people/sellers just toss in a battery and crank them up without every bothering to look. Days or weeks later after the buyer brought it home, the rings have scraped the rust off the cylinders and filled up the ring grooves jamming the rings, the compression drops, and the motor begins to show the result.

If you are ever lucky enough to see rust on the cylinders, consider the engine as a core engine needing a complete overhaul, and value it accordingly.
 
Apr 21, 2012
55
Macgregor 26X Kansas City
Welcome Eric. I found this form very helpful in recalling features on specific boats when I was looking at multiple boats. Its amazing how my mind can mix up features between various boats when looking at several at a time. I'm not sure where I found it and a lot of the features listed do not pertain to our boats but those can easily be skipped or the space used for addition information. Good luck in your search!

Boat Audit List
A.) General Information, Boat Date seen ___________________
1.) Boat Name____________________________________________
2.) Year______________ Make_______________ Size___________
3.) Price _____________ HIN___________________________
4.) Location___________________________________ FSBO? Y/N
5.) Agent/Seller _______________________________________________
6.) Phone/email _______________________________________________
7.) Rig: S, HS, C, K, Y, Other_______________________________
8.) Tiller Y/N Wheel Y/N
9.) Configuration Keel FK, FK/CB, Cruise K, Cruise K/CB, CB only, Fin K,
10.) Configuration of Rudder: Transom, FK attached, Skeg, Spade
11.) Now on Hard/ Wet, On Cradle Y/N, On Stands Y/N, Trailer Y/N
Do they Convey? Y/N
12.) Color Hull_____________ Color Deck ______________
13.) Barrier Y/N Paint/ Re Gel-coated. _______________________
14.) Prop-bladed, 2 / 3/ Fold/ Feather/ Variable
15.) Winter Cover / Frame Y/N
B.) Sailing Gear and rigging
1.) Mast rig SS/ DS, Deck / Keel stepped, Tabernacle Y/N, Boom Gallows Y/N
2.) Foresail RF Y/N, Make____________________________ 1 or2 furlers
3.) Inner stay Y/N, Pole track Y/N, Pole blocks Y/N
4.) Spin Halyard Y/N, Int. Halyard Y/N , Flag Hoist @ spread Y/N
5.) Double Lowers Y/N Baby stay/ runners Y/N
6.) Shroud Location In/Out Backstay S/ D, Adjuster Y/N
7.) Haly Winches Mast/ Deck Make ____________ Size_______, Reel Y/N
8.) Lines lead aft Y/N/#______ Stoppers/clutches Y/N/#________
9.) Vang Y/N, Top Lift Y/N, Jacks Y/N, Reef blocks Y/N -1/ 2/ 3, Roll Boom Y/N
10.) Traveler Y/N - Cabin top / Bridge Deck / Cockpit / Taffrail, Control Blocks Y/N
11.) Genoa Track- none / Short /Long, Quarter turning blocks Y/N
12.) Prime Winches, Make ___________________ Size____ST-Y/N 2spd Y/N
13.) 2d Winches Y/N Make ___________________ Size____ ST-Y/N 2spd Y/N
14.) Coaming sheet pockets Y/N, Winch Handle Pockets Y/N
15.) Mainsail Cover Y/N, Jib sail Stay Bag Y/N, RF Sacrificial leech band OK Y/N
16.) Main Sail Battens 0/typ/full length, Reefs 0/1/2/3
17.) Main Sail Make/Age____________________________________________
18.) Trysail Y/N Make/ Age ________________________________________
19.) Jibs/ Genoas #/%, Make/Age _______________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________
20.) Storm Jib Y/N, Make/Age_______________________________
21.) Spinnaker Y/N, Cruising chute/ Gennaker Y/N,
Type _______________________________________________
Make/ Age ___________________________________________
C.) Gound tackle and dock gear
1.) Bow Roller Y/N 1/ 2, Bow Chocks Y/N, Cleats 1/2/3, Naval Pipe YN
2.) Anchors 0/1/2/3, Deck Locker Y/N, Rode/ Length __________
____________________________________________________
3.) Stern Anchor Set up Y/N _____________________________
4.) Anchor Types/ Sizes _______________________________________
__________________________________________________________
5.) Windlass Y/N, Manual / Electric Make/ Size __________________
6.) Snubber Y/N , Deck wash Y/N
7.) Mid Cleat/ Chocks Y/N Aft Cleats / Chocks Y/N
8.) Fenders ___________ Dock lines Y/N, Fender board Y/N
D. Deck and Cockpit
1.) Pulpit Y/N, Pushpit Y/N, Mast Bars Y/N, Pole Chocks Y/N
2.) Swim Ladder Y/N, Gate Y/N, Other ___________________
3.) Running Lts Hull/ Rail, Incan/ LED, Masthead Tri Y/N
4.) Dorade Vents Y/N/ # __________ Opening Ports Y/N/ #________
5.) Hatches, Cabin/ #_____________ Cockpit Locker # / Depth ________
6.) Lazerette Y/N
7.) Dodger Y/N/ Frame Only, Bimini Y/N/ Frame only, Awning Y/N, Weather Cloths Y/N, Wind sail Y/N Hatch Covers Y/N Tiller/ Wheel Cover Y/N Winch Cover Y/N
8.) Grating Y/N, Cockpit cushions Y/N, Hatch screens Y/N _________________
9.) Auto Pilot Y/N, Make ___________________________________________
10.) Wind Vane Y/N, Make __________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
11.) Dink Davits Y/N, Dink Deck Chocks Y/N, Dink OB pad Y/N
12.) Cockpit table Y/N, BBQ Y/N
13.) Day shapes Y/N
14.) Arch Y/N
E.) Electronic /Navigational
1.) Compass Pedestal/ Bulkhead/ Other Make/ Size ________________
2.) Hand bearing Y/N, Chart board Y/N, Chart table Y/N
3.) Sounding lead Y/N Hand Log Y/N
4.) Combi-unit Y/N, Depth Y/N Speed/Log Y/N Wind speed Y/N wind Dir Y/N
Sparfly Y/N
5.) GPS Hand Y/N GPS / Chartplotter Y/N Radar Y/N
6.) Charts Y/N, Software Charts Y/N ______________
7.) VHF Y/N Make __________________________________
8.) SSB Y/N Make __________________________________
9.) Radar Y/N, Make / Range _________________________ Mtd? ________
10.) All Band receiver Y/N
11.) Other __________________________________________
F.) Engine- G/D fueled
1.) Year, Make, cylinders, rated Hp or Kh___________________________
2.) Location aft, midships In- line drive V- drive Hours ____________
3.) Fuel Tank type, capacity and location ________________________
_________________________________________________________
4.) Gauges- Hour Y/N Fuel Y/N Tach Y/N Temp Y/N Amp Y/N
5.) Switches Pre heat Y/N, Fuel shutoff Y/N (Choke Y/N) Covered Y/N
Panel Loc. _______________________________________________
6.) Access comments ______________________________________
7.) Cutlass Bearing Replaced Y/N, Packing Y/N, Dripless packing Y/N
8.) Shaft isolator / damper in drive line Y/N
9.) Exhaust type- Water Lift Y/N, Wet Exhaust Y/N Dry Exhaust Y/N
10.) Drip pan/ sump Y/N, Oil change pump Y/N
11.) Primary (remote) filter Y/N, 1/2 in parallel
12.) Zincs- shaft/ Engine/ Cooler
13.) Federal Placards Y/N
G.) Electrical
1.) Alternator size ______ Smart Regulator Y/N Make ______________
2.) Shore Power Y/N, Amp 30/50, Voltmeter Y/N, Ammeter Y/N, Shore Cord Y/N
3.) Panel OEM / Rebuilt, Fuse/ Circuit breaker. # Circuits_____________
4.) Panel Location _____________________________________________
5.) Generator Y/N Make/ size ______________________________
6.) Location _____________________________________________
7.) Duplex AC # ________ GFI Y/N__________ Polarity indicator Y/N
8.) Solar Y/N/ amp _____ Mounted_____________________________
9.) Ampair Y/N amp____ Mounted______________________________
10.) Batteries 1/2/3 Make/ Size/ Age ______________________________
11.) Location __________________________________________________
12.) Inverter Y/N/ Size ___________ Battery Charger Y/N/ size ___________
13.) Lightning bonding/ grounded Y/N
14.) Wiring condition Original/ Rebuilt/ Added to/ Unknown
F.) Galley
1.) Water tank #/gal _______ Material ___________
Location ________________
2.) Watermaker Y/N, Make/Size ____________________________
3.) Pressure Y/N
4.) HWH Y/N- Size ______ Type __________________ Make _________
Location ____________________________________________________
5.) Galley Layout shape= “I / L/ U”, Location Aft / Mid, Bar/Strap Y/N
6.) Stove Fuel= A,P/ A,N-P/ K/ LPG/ CNG
7.) (If LPG) Sniffer Y/N, Solenoid Shutoff Y/N Tank stowage conformal Y/N
8.) Range Burners 1/2/3/4, Oven Y/N, Gimbaled Y/N, Sea rail/ Pot clamps Y/N
9.) Range Make ________________________
10.) Microwave set up Y/N
11. Dish fitment Y/N, Sink 1/2, Pump MHnd/ MFoot/ EL, Salt man Y/N
12.) Ice/ Reefer, Make_______________________________ Sump Y/N
13.) Dry Stow Y/N, Waste bin Y/N Vent Y/N Drawers Y/N/ # ______
14.) Other _________________________________________________
G.) Head
1.) Layout- bypass/ walk through/ forepeak
2.) Vented Y/N, how _____________ Shower Y/N, Sump & Pump Y/N
Curtain Y/N , Sump Loc _______________________________
3.) MSD/ PortiPotti, Make________________________________
4.) Holding Y/N, Size _____ Mat____________ Location _______________
5.) Mirror Y/N, Stowage Good /Fair/Bad, Drawers Y/N # _____
H.) Interior Salon, Fore Peak
1.) Vented Y/N How __________________________________
2.) Finish - Wood/ Herreshoff white / Wood HPPL/ Colored HPPL / Liner
3.) Sole- T&H, FG, Other ______________________________________
Bilge access lids #_______, Lockdowns Y/N ____________________
4.) Wet Locker adjacent Entry Y/N, Other location Y/N _________________
Entry grate/dust bin Y/N, Entry grab rails @ ladder Y/N,
5.) Grab rails on overhead Y/N ____________________________
6.) Stowage at Settees Below/ Behind/Above Book Stowage Y/N
7.) Nav instruments Panel Y/N, location ________________________________
8.) Pull out double Y/N, Roots berth Y/N, Pilot berth Y/N,
Reading lights Y/N/# ___ , Lee cloths Y/N, Foot-wells Y/N,
9.) V berth foot space width, approx “ ________
Standing space in the V-berth with filler in place Y/N
10.) Hanging/ shelved locker in Salon Y/N, in fore peak Y/N hanging/shelved
11.) Heater in Salon Y/N, Fuel S/A/K/D/LPG, Stack/Nobel __________________
12.) Fans Y/N # _____ Gimbaled Oil Y/N/# ___ Hanging Oil Y/N
13.) Clock Y/N/ SB, Barometer Y/N Thermometer Y/N Hygrometer Y/N
14.) AC Y/N Make___________ Location ___________
15.) Sound system Y/N TV Y/N
16.) Upholstery Type/Condition ____________________________________
17.) Other ________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________
I.) Safety
1.) Pumps Y/N, Manual # ___ Cap ____, Elect # ____ Make ____ Cap____
2.) Fire extinguisher Y/N/# / Type ________________________________
3.) Distress signals/pistol Y/N Current Y/N
4.) MOB pole Y/N, Heaving line Y/N, Throwable Y/N, PFDs Y/N/#______
5.) Radar Reflector Y/N Bell Y/N, Horn Y/N
6.) First Aid Kits Y/N, Manual Y/N
7.) CO Sniffer Y/N Smoke Alarm Y/N
8.) Other___________________
J.) Dinghy Y/N
1.) Size/Make ___________________ Type Infl/ RHIB/ Folding/ Sectional/ Solid
2.) OB Y/N Make/ Size _____________________
3.) Oars Y/N Anchor Y/N,
4.) Sail Y/N, Rudder/tiller Y/N, Dagger/Lee/ Center board
5.) If hard, flotation ____________________________________________
K.) Owner’s / Seller’s Comments
A.) General Background info.
1.) Length of time they have had the boat
2.) How did they use it and where
3.) Why did they buy it and were their expectations fulfilled.
B.) Boat performance characteristics
1.) Handling under sail.
a.) Windward ability- tacking angle?
b.) Light air performance, at what wind speed does he fire up the engine?
c.) Heavy air experience?
2.) Handling under power
a.) Speed @ rpm/fuel consumption?
b.) Backing under power?
c.) Power adequate in heavy weather?
For layouts and specs see http://www.sailboatdata.com/firstpage.asp
For non-dimensional ratios see http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html
For performance see http://www.phrfne.org/page/567 or local listing
 
Apr 23, 2013
13
Beneteau First 235 Mandeville, LA
That is a great help. I was working on putting one together. This will save time. Thanks.

Eric
 
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