This past weekend we removed the leaking portlights in the bathroom area. The port side seemed o.k. - although the wood was wet it is solid. Is anything other than silicone caulking and replacement of the portlight necessary? The starboard side was another story. Below the portlight the core was wet, but again seems solid. Above the portlight the wood is rotten - we dug out about 3 or 4 inches of wood using a screwdriver. It appears that the water is coming from the cabin top - we will open the dorade boxes next weekend as they appear to be a likely source. If necessary we will repair the dorades as gene gruder describes on his website. My question is - how do we repair the core in the cabin side? Does the wooden core extend through the cabin sides to the cabin top? Can it be repaired by filling the space with Marinetex, then caulking with silicone and replacing the portlight? My experience with fiberglass and hull repairs is absolutely zero - but I'm eager to learn. Any helpful advice is much appreciated.
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Sound's familiar
Peter, I am in the middle of exactly the same repair. I'll try to take some pictures this weekend and post them here with an explanation of my approach. You're on the right track. You have to fix the dorades too. Some people seem to have used foam and epoxy to replace the rotted wood. You will have to let everything dry out for a couple of weeks (or more) before you can start repairs. I plan to epoxy putty & glass the inside of the holes to seal all the core and bond everything into one monolithic structure - the way it should have been done by the factory...then if it ever leaks again, I'll have a drip right inside the cabin and I'll know its time to rebed the windows. There is quite a bit of stuff in the archive here if you search for it. Ed Schenck did this job a couple of years ago on his 37c and took pictures. Good luck!
Peter, I am in the middle of exactly the same repair. I'll try to take some pictures this weekend and post them here with an explanation of my approach. You're on the right track. You have to fix the dorades too. Some people seem to have used foam and epoxy to replace the rotted wood. You will have to let everything dry out for a couple of weeks (or more) before you can start repairs. I plan to epoxy putty & glass the inside of the holes to seal all the core and bond everything into one monolithic structure - the way it should have been done by the factory...then if it ever leaks again, I'll have a drip right inside the cabin and I'll know its time to rebed the windows. There is quite a bit of stuff in the archive here if you search for it. Ed Schenck did this job a couple of years ago on his 37c and took pictures. Good luck!
Core repair.
I was lucky, I did not have to replace any of the core. There was some dampness so I let it dry and then soaked the perimeter in epoxy. Tom Hadoulias is the expert in missing core, maybe he will check in. But I would dig out the rotten stuff and then epoxy in some strips of marine plywood. Actually, since it will be epoxy covered, any wood will do. I think the forward cabin is 5/8" and the main salon is 3/4" core. The other sources of water in the cabin roof are the mast partners, the handrails, and the staysail traveler. Those also have to be fixed along with the dorades. And silicone is the right stuff for the plastic framed portlights.
I was lucky, I did not have to replace any of the core. There was some dampness so I let it dry and then soaked the perimeter in epoxy. Tom Hadoulias is the expert in missing core, maybe he will check in. But I would dig out the rotten stuff and then epoxy in some strips of marine plywood. Actually, since it will be epoxy covered, any wood will do. I think the forward cabin is 5/8" and the main salon is 3/4" core. The other sources of water in the cabin roof are the mast partners, the handrails, and the staysail traveler. Those also have to be fixed along with the dorades. And silicone is the right stuff for the plastic framed portlights.
Rotten to the core...
Thanks Ed for calling me an expert... I'm not so sure that is a distinction that can apply to anything regarding boats or people who work on them. Especially rotten ones! Peter, here is what I have learned and others I'm sure will follow with very good advice as well. First of all, do not despair. This is a totally repairable problem that as Jim had stated could have been completely avoided by the factory had they sealed the core in the first place. But to Hunters defense, I have a friend who has a Morris 32, a very expensive boat by anyones standards that had the same problem and actually had regular plywood in the core instead of the marine ply that Hunter used. It was a lot worse for a much newer boat so spending more doesn't always buy more. OK, back to the core issue. The good news is, the wood on the cabin sides does not extend onto the cabin top or the side decks. The wood is there as a filler and compression modulus for the outer skin and inner liner so that the portlights can go in without squeezing these two together. That said, you still need to fill this in but the fact that it has rotted out doesn't mean your boat is structuraly compromised at the cabin sides. If you'll notice the radius at the cabin top and at the deck it would not be possible for the wood core to be sandwiched in those areas so the Fiberglass is the main structural member on the cabin sides. When you remove the rotten wood, I just used expanding foam to fill in the large gaps and then used thickened epoxy to seal the edges of the portlight openings that will now be water tight. Silicone can then be used as a sealer as that is really all that will stick following they original installation by Hunter. This is because silicone leaves a film that nothing else will adhere to but more silicone unless it is completely removed. Hunter used white silicone on my boat so yours is probably the same. If you have any more leaks in the future you'll just see water leaks into the cabin as Jim suggested but your wood will be sealed with epoxy so no wood damage will occur. You can then just re-seal them and forget about them for a long time to come. After all they lasted 20 or more years to this point. Gene, Ed and I and some others went with the New Found Metals portlights. They are nice but present some idiosyncrasies of thier own with respect to installation and drainage. I'm still not finished with mine and if I had it to do over again I'm not sure I would go this route but they will be nice when they're done. I think Ed shares the same sentiments. Good luck, there is lot's of data on this forum so you're not alone and when you're done you'll be an expert as well. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop H37C
Thanks Ed for calling me an expert... I'm not so sure that is a distinction that can apply to anything regarding boats or people who work on them. Especially rotten ones! Peter, here is what I have learned and others I'm sure will follow with very good advice as well. First of all, do not despair. This is a totally repairable problem that as Jim had stated could have been completely avoided by the factory had they sealed the core in the first place. But to Hunters defense, I have a friend who has a Morris 32, a very expensive boat by anyones standards that had the same problem and actually had regular plywood in the core instead of the marine ply that Hunter used. It was a lot worse for a much newer boat so spending more doesn't always buy more. OK, back to the core issue. The good news is, the wood on the cabin sides does not extend onto the cabin top or the side decks. The wood is there as a filler and compression modulus for the outer skin and inner liner so that the portlights can go in without squeezing these two together. That said, you still need to fill this in but the fact that it has rotted out doesn't mean your boat is structuraly compromised at the cabin sides. If you'll notice the radius at the cabin top and at the deck it would not be possible for the wood core to be sandwiched in those areas so the Fiberglass is the main structural member on the cabin sides. When you remove the rotten wood, I just used expanding foam to fill in the large gaps and then used thickened epoxy to seal the edges of the portlight openings that will now be water tight. Silicone can then be used as a sealer as that is really all that will stick following they original installation by Hunter. This is because silicone leaves a film that nothing else will adhere to but more silicone unless it is completely removed. Hunter used white silicone on my boat so yours is probably the same. If you have any more leaks in the future you'll just see water leaks into the cabin as Jim suggested but your wood will be sealed with epoxy so no wood damage will occur. You can then just re-seal them and forget about them for a long time to come. After all they lasted 20 or more years to this point. Gene, Ed and I and some others went with the New Found Metals portlights. They are nice but present some idiosyncrasies of thier own with respect to installation and drainage. I'm still not finished with mine and if I had it to do over again I'm not sure I would go this route but they will be nice when they're done. I think Ed shares the same sentiments. Good luck, there is lot's of data on this forum so you're not alone and when you're done you'll be an expert as well. Tom Hadoulias S/V Lite Chop H37C
same project - more questions
Like Peter, I am getting ready to tackle the same project and am trying to consider all the options. (Thank goodness for archives!) An experienced boat owner/friend suggest that IF there is no sign of interior wood deterioration, but leaks come in around the portlight, to try removing only the trim rings, clean and recaulk and replace with a new trim ring well-sealed. Then replace old gaskets. If it doesn't work, he says, you're not out a lot and can always go back in and replace the entire portlight. Some of mine obviously must be replaced, but doing the entire boat is a daunting task. I have been checking, incidentally, and have had a hard time getting any supplier to respond to email requests for prices and availability on the 512 and 715 portlights. No one showed up at the SailExpo that could even talk about it. Suggestions appreciated. Sanders
Like Peter, I am getting ready to tackle the same project and am trying to consider all the options. (Thank goodness for archives!) An experienced boat owner/friend suggest that IF there is no sign of interior wood deterioration, but leaks come in around the portlight, to try removing only the trim rings, clean and recaulk and replace with a new trim ring well-sealed. Then replace old gaskets. If it doesn't work, he says, you're not out a lot and can always go back in and replace the entire portlight. Some of mine obviously must be replaced, but doing the entire boat is a daunting task. I have been checking, incidentally, and have had a hard time getting any supplier to respond to email requests for prices and availability on the 512 and 715 portlights. No one showed up at the SailExpo that could even talk about it. Suggestions appreciated. Sanders
Portlight leaks.
Sanders, what you propose will work IF. If the leaks are from the portlight seal and if you can get the trim rings off. Water that gets into the cabin top through any of those other places(traveler, dorade, mast partners, handrails) will usually find its way in at the portlights. I resealed a couple of NFM portlights only to find it is from some other source. And good luck with those brittle trim rings. Better have some new ones as backups.
Sanders, what you propose will work IF. If the leaks are from the portlight seal and if you can get the trim rings off. Water that gets into the cabin top through any of those other places(traveler, dorade, mast partners, handrails) will usually find its way in at the portlights. I resealed a couple of NFM portlights only to find it is from some other source. And good luck with those brittle trim rings. Better have some new ones as backups.
Portlights
I just finished replacing all the portlights on my '81 H30. Wet core but no rot. Used Gray/Bomar replacements which were ordered from SailNet who did not have them in stock and had to order from Bomar which then became backordered. Anyway took about 5 weeks to get them which was OK because ii took about that long for the core to completely dry. Boat was under a cover all winter with the ports removed about in January. I followed the photo achive replacement proceedure and it was really quite simple. One word of advice is don't skimp on the silicone.
I just finished replacing all the portlights on my '81 H30. Wet core but no rot. Used Gray/Bomar replacements which were ordered from SailNet who did not have them in stock and had to order from Bomar which then became backordered. Anyway took about 5 weeks to get them which was OK because ii took about that long for the core to completely dry. Boat was under a cover all winter with the ports removed about in January. I followed the photo achive replacement proceedure and it was really quite simple. One word of advice is don't skimp on the silicone.
Gray Parts
I don't advise just resealing the trim ring, based on what I saw when I removed mine. The silicone was still tenaciously attached to the fiberglass, even the edge of the skin. Where the bond failed was on the plywood core. Having said that, I didn't have that much trouble removing the trim rings - I think I only broke two out of ten, & I wasn't try to save them. I do now have a 'stock' of used Gray port parts & I will sort thru to see what is usable once I finish the installation of the new Beckson Raindain ports. The Gray parts will be for the asking - just pay the postage from Nova Scotia. Give me a week or so to get organised...then e-mail me at lighthouse@ns.sympatico.ca if you need the parts. I would prefer to get rid of them at one go.
I don't advise just resealing the trim ring, based on what I saw when I removed mine. The silicone was still tenaciously attached to the fiberglass, even the edge of the skin. Where the bond failed was on the plywood core. Having said that, I didn't have that much trouble removing the trim rings - I think I only broke two out of ten, & I wasn't try to save them. I do now have a 'stock' of used Gray port parts & I will sort thru to see what is usable once I finish the installation of the new Beckson Raindain ports. The Gray parts will be for the asking - just pay the postage from Nova Scotia. Give me a week or so to get organised...then e-mail me at lighthouse@ns.sympatico.ca if you need the parts. I would prefer to get rid of them at one go.
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